Post-Game Talk: Canes

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

You're free to disagree with the plan, but the plan has not changed:

Horde draft picks. Ice a reasonable team so the kids don't get their heads kicked in while they learn. Wait while prospects develop and integrate into the lineup. Sell guys not in the long term plans if the return is worthwhile.

I totally agree that they still need at least 1-2 high end pieces. But they're still at least 1-2 years away from being a finished product.

Now, if this summer goes by and Detroit has neither traded for an impact player nor had a home run of a draft, then I'll share more of your concern. But the Wings have a long list of good prospects and young players, and I think the next few months will bring more of that.

I agree with the plan, just not the execution. How are guys like Hronek not apart of the long term plan but keeping guys like chiarot and copp for 3+ more years is? They are way worse players than Hronek. That’s the problem, you signed crappy players and then traded away a good one. I’m fine with the Hronek trade actually, I’m just not fine with the contracts of the free agents we signed. Chiarot is on a fast track to a buy out next year. This isn’t even taking account to our lack of high end talent we are lacking from the draft, this is just plain roster decision making Im annoyed at.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

You’re right, the teams that have shown grit and heart in 19, in 20, in 21, in 22 all got us to where we are now. Man those teams gave us SUCH A BIG roster to build off of. Oh wait, zadina busted, veleno Is replaceable, seider and raymond took steps back in development and this year we still might not finish bottom 10 and won’t be close to playoffs, aka no mans land. You should pray we lose every game, it’s the only way to try and get a game changer that can actually change this team. You guys think we are gonna compete with larkin as our 1c? Lmao. We are so far away from competing it’s hilarious. Look at Buffalo, so many great players, superstars in dahlin and thompson, and they are on the outside looking in. I just can’t with some fans, we aren’t close and anyone who watches around the league knows that. At this rate we are looking at a decade of no playoffs, it’s seriously grim

Amen, brother

 

[dalem177]

I’ll tell you what you don’t do, you don’t sign boat anchors like chiarot or sign guys who have 8 goals to 5.5+. That makes us better in the short term, and not good in the long term. I’ll tell you what you don’t do, you don’t pair guys like edvinsson with chiarot. Did you see eds advanced stats tonight? Surprise surprise they were terrible. I’ll tell you what you don’t do, if you say okay we are gonna sign free agents and try and compete, then you don’t sell off your whole team at the deadline. We lost a 25 year old 50 point right D for what? So we can get the 20th pick from the islanders? I don’t even like Hronek but what’s really the point in acquiring extra picks if you aren’t gonna try to acquire great talent. The 20th puck could be anything, it could even be a 50 point right shot defenseman! We easily could have had chychrun but nope that went right by. You guys defend the current moves tooth and nail but put your heads in the sand to situations where we massively mess up. Our team has no identity right now, we can’t figure out if we want to try and make the playoffs or tank. And our record the past 2 seasons has reflected that. Make up your mind and decide what you want to do and stick to it.

I'm not defending much actually. I just figure Steve effing Yzerman knows more about hockey than I do.

What I AM doing is asking you this:

In all seriousness, how do you tell elite athletes to slack off and play poorly while risking career-ending injury, refuse to provide them with tools and coaching you have available to make it more likely they will fail, while simultaneously maintaining and growing morale, skill, and effectiveness "for next time"?

 

[Oddbob]

You literally have no clue what would happen.
Also losing games we could potentially move to 6 or 7. So yes I give a damn.

The odds are basically the same in all those spots.

 

[Oddbob]

Oh no our team is showing grit and heart and keeps trying. This sucks. I wish they would just quit already because that'd definitely the kind of roster that you can build upon.

I just wish we could go back to the 8-2 losses with inspiring efforts.

You’re right, the teams that have shown grit and heart in 19, in 20, in 21, in 22 all got us to where we are now. Man those teams gave us SUCH A BIG roster to build off of. Oh wait, zadina busted, veleno Is replaceable, seider and raymond took steps back in development and this year we still might not finish bottom 10 and won’t be close to playoffs, aka no mans land. You should pray we lose every game, it’s the only way to try and get a game changer that can actually change this team. You guys think we are gonna compete with larkin as our 1c? Lmao. We are so far away from competing it’s hilarious. Look at Buffalo, so many great players, superstars in dahlin and thompson, and they are on the outside looking in. I just can’t with some fans, we aren’t close and anyone who watches around the league knows that. At this rate we are looking at a decade of no playoffs, it’s seriously grim

Buffalo is barely ahead of us with all these "superstars" is your pro tank argument? So what you are saying is, that if we draft 2 franchise players in the next 2 drafts, we could have 4 more pts in the standings?

 

[14ari13]

My points are addressed to how yzerman is building the team, and the things he is doing that I disagree with. It’s fairly obvious I’m talking about my issues with some choices yzerman has made. Such as signing chiarot and copp, but trading Hronek and vrana.

I didn't say I disagreed.

 

[TheMule93]

Team can’t even tank right…

What do you expect? Yzerman spent a bunch of money in the offseason to improve the team, Perron, Husso, and awesome contributors like Chiarot and Copp. This was not a tanking season, this was a push-the-team-forward season. We did exactly that and improved from 25th to 24th place overall, with still some games remaining to improve some more. This was definitely the right move despite one of the most stacked drafts ever in the coming summer.

<runs away>

 

[LucaBrasil]

I’m just so unbelievably mad with this team. We lose games that matter against the senators in embarrassing fashion, and we win games tonight that DONT matter whatsoever. We aren’t even close to competing, teams like ottawa and Buffalo can’t even make the playoffs with legit superstars. We are so far away it’s not even funny and we can’t even tank right, and I see dumb fans excited that we won a meaningless game. We could’ve finished 6th, with good odds and highest ability to trade up or move down yet we win irrelevant games and will be punished for it. It’s just miserable

Tanking is HF Boards, no one cares in reality.

 

[Pavels Dog]

We say we want to compete but then we sell, but we sell and are still winning meaningless games.

3rd worst record in the NHL the last 20 games.

 

[HoweFan]

My day goes better when we win. Well done guys.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised this turned into a complaining about not tanking thread.

I get it. The lower they finish the better chance at drafting a good player. But expecting the players and coaches not to try and win games is ridiculous though so I don't know what y'all are hoping for.

Carolina couldn't beat a team that started a goalie who spent most of the season in the minors because he's been so bad, with Hagg Matta and a rookie on the blueline, Czarnik and Luff in the lineup, and Chiasson on the PP. Seems like your anger is misdirected?

If it's that upsetting maybe stop watching until the season is over and just see where they end up?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I just wish we could go back to the 8-2 losses with inspiring efforts.



Buffalo is barely ahead of us with all these "superstars" is your pro tank argument? So what you are saying is, that if we draft 2 franchise players in the next 2 drafts, we could have 4 more pts in the standings?

Yup.

Some people can't except that when the Wings were legit awful it was during years the draft wasn't strong, they got screwed in the lottery and STILL managed to come away with good players.

Basically whining because this year it's supposed to be a deep draft. When people keep repeating this thoroughly dismantled argument all I basically hear "I want my binky!!" It still gets to the heart of what they're saying and also amuses me.

 

[izlez]

I really focused in on Edvinsson this game and came away very disappointed.

A lot of that disappointment comes from the expectations. As many times as I heard the "don't expect him to come in and dominate like Seider did", I love Edvinsson as a prospect and was hopeful he was going to come in and dominate.

Definitely see lots of tools there and good plays here and there that have me optimistic in the long run, but too many mistakes leading to chances the other way. Some of that may have been because he was paired with Chiarot. Both guys want to step up and take chances to make plays and then turnovers are costly. But, looks like Edvinsson might have some learning to do still before he's really ready for the NHL. Obviously, still keep him up this year while the season doesn't matter and get him the experience.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I’m just so unbelievably mad with this team. We lose games that matter against the senators in embarrassing fashion, and we win games tonight that DONT matter whatsoever. We aren’t even close to competing, teams like ottawa and Buffalo can’t even make the playoffs with legit superstars. We are so far away it’s not even funny and we can’t even tank right, and I see dumb fans excited that we won a meaningless game. We could’ve finished 6th, with good odds and highest ability to trade up or move down yet we win irrelevant games and will be punished for it. It’s just miserable

It’s me. I’m dumb fans. I cheer for this team to win all the time.

The #5 to #15 picks in this draft are pretty close to equal so we’re not missing out on that generational talent. And if the team directly below Detroit in the standings wins the lotto for Bedard and it was THIS game that did it? I’ll eat my hat.

 

[raymond23]

The tank crowd is so insufferable

We win ONE hockey game and they come out crying like the world is ending

 

[dalem177]

The tank crowd is so insufferable

We win ONE hockey game and they come out crying like the world is ending

I'm so dumb I still don't know what a "griddy" is.

 

[lomekian]

Ultimately how we feel about these wins that keep us later in the draft than we could be should be determined by who is doing what. The fact that most of the impact is from guys we want to either keep longer term or trade next year at the deadline softens the blow. Ultimately Wallman is seriously cementing his emergence as a definite top 4 D with a real goal threat, which given we sold Hronek and got a good haul is a very good thing. Would it be better if if was Zadina suddenly upping his game? Yes, but I'm still pretty happy.

In any event, its still perfectly within this team's capabilities to finish picking 7th, so lets wait and see. Frankly I'm more annoyed at the fact that having decided that Vrana was a toxic anti-asset that he's showing exactly the goal threat in STL that he was for us when fit, when he was never given a chance to re-find himself here. Even if they wanted rid of him, its looking rather like keeping him till the summer and giving him good ice time was a far better option

 

[raymond23]

I really focused in on Edvinsson this game and came away very disappointed.

A lot of that disappointment comes from the expectations. As many times as I heard the "don't expect him to come in and dominate like Seider did", I love Edvinsson as a prospect and was hopeful he was going to come in and dominate.

Definitely see lots of tools there and good plays here and there that have me optimistic in the long run, but too many mistakes leading to chances the other way. Some of that may have been because he was paired with Chiarot. Both guys want to step up and take chances to make plays and then turnovers are costly. But, looks like Edvinsson might have some learning to do still before he's really ready for the NHL. Obviously, still keep him up this year while the season doesn't matter and get him the experience.

Edvinsson definitely is going to take some time to become the player we want him to be.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'm so dumb I still don't know what a "griddy" is.

me either. Am I getting warmer?

 

[NickH8]

I like when my team wins

 

[jaster]

I like when my team wins

That's because you're dumb.

 

[NickH8]

That's because you're dumb.

I guess so. I'd rather be dumb than miserable.

 

[jaster]

I guess so. I'd rather be dumb than miserable.

Sounds right, but I'm also dumb, so can't be sure.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I get your point, but here's a serious question.

How does one assign values to either side of this equation?

View attachment 678988


?????

I don't think it can be done. Both sides are hand-waving, IMO.

The Wings have done what they could in terms of tanking. They are still professionals and are going to play hard because their livelihood depends on it. They dealt away all sorts of assets.

It’s not handwaving to say “play hard and try hard, because it’s the only chance most of you are gonna get”.

You still have to ice an NHL roster and if Carolina can’t beat a decidedly weaker Detroit roster, that’s on them.

 

[dalem177]

The Wings have done what they could in terms of tanking. They are still professionals and are going to play hard because their livelihood depends on it. They dealt away all sorts of assets.

It’s not handwaving to say “play hard and try hard, because it’s the only chance most of you are gonna get”.

You still have to ice an NHL roster and if Carolina can’t beat a decidedly weaker Detroit roster, that’s on them.

Oh trust me - I assign WAY more value to the left side of that mess than the right side. But I don't think either side can be quantified. IMO if you're a Statis Pro/spreadsheet guy, you'll raise the right and lower the left side, because "numbers, duh". If you're a fan of the game overall and understand that the producers and consumers of the product called "Hockey" are all humans, then I think you'd weight the left side more than the right.

But I'm pretty dumb, so maybe I don't know what I'm trying to say. I gotta work on some PK...