Confirmed with Link: Canes sign D Dmitry Orlov 2 x 7.75M

[MinJaBen]

If we replace Pesce and Skjei with Orlov and Karlsson, and people keep saying "that's too much defense!" I swear to God I'm gonna lose my mind.

Noted.

 

[LakeLivin]

See, what actually happened was the best defenseman on the FA market walked up and knocked on our front door.

If we replace Pesce and Skjei with Orlov and Karlsson, and people keep saying "that's too much defense!" I swear to God I'm gonna lose my mind.

At a time when there are real questions about the status of 2 of our key d-men going forward.

 

[NotOpie]

At the same time, we just need one shooter and everything changes. You flip Skjei or Pesce for someone who can reliably put puck in net, even if its at the detriment to his defensive game (like a Nylander or Laine) we are going to be a deadly team to play against. It would change the entire dynamic of our offense, and we kind of saw that play out a little in the games where Patches played this year. We're already incredibly good, but we're dangerously close to being an elite powerhouse, and not many are able to see that right now. One move could really change everything and push us all the way over the top

Am I misremembering or did we lose all 3 games where Patches scored?

That wasn't my main point, but it does go to prove that the issue here is winning....any way that we can. Who is to say that some of those elusive goals against FL could have come from the back end?

In the end, I'd like us to roll 4 scoring lines with the Staal line being the most defensively responsible of the group.

 

[Svechhammer]

to me, we are at the point of precision tuning a well-oiled machine. this isn't an indictment of the moves as much as a bit of confusion based on not losing alone, but how we lost those games. being clinically unable to score after failing to add a single significant option at the deadline. it's not just this year, either. it's been something that is creeping up on being a bugaboo for this batch of players to have had 5 years in a row of favorable conditions (especially the last 3 years) and having the same key issue derail the train each time. they've built a .661 winner under RBA during the regular season and a .500 playoff club. 3 consecutive division titles. the concern starts to be how much we've left on the table as much as how much we have left to go. we can't use the hot goaltender excuse over and over. especially with as much as Bob was shredded in the next round against a team that could roll out a vicious mix of forwards and not just a line and a half and high effort glue guys. and after that observation, you go and buy defense? it just seems like an interesting allocation of resources. it feels like we're teetering on becoming the San Jose Sharks of the present era.

I think the thing about our defense is that we're tweaking it, and not necessarily adding to it. As much as its great to think that we could roll 3 elite lines on defense, I really don't think that is where we are going to end up. We are getting very strong vibes that we are looking to bring in either Karlsson and/or TDA via trade, and we already qualified Coghlan to be our man in the box.

So at a certain point, we have to move out at least one current defender if we bring in TDA or Karlsson, and if we pick up both we have to move 2, because we literally don't have enough roster spots to fit them all in. Lets say we move out both Skjei and Pesce

So we're looking at a potential defense next year of

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Karlsson
Chatfield-TDA

In reality, I think we're going to land Karlsson or TDA, which means Sjkei or Pesce will be traded, which makes our lines look like this:

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Chatfield
Skjei-Karlsson

Probably a small step backwards on pure defense, but a massive upgrade in offense. And then you can dangle Skjei and/or Pesce out in the market to go big game hunting for a forward help. And now that we've got Bunting with Jordo and Fast coming in at reasonable deals, suddenly you might have to dangle one of our forwards out there as well, and now we are talking about going BIG game hunting. And also consider that we are hearing that we are still in the market for someone like Tarasenko....

What I'm seeing right now out of the front office is a very deliberate shift to make ourselves more offensive from the blue line while still maintaining as much defensive stability as we can. And now we're looking to overhaul the forward lines, not by adding a FA (unless Tarasenko joins) but by upgrading what we already have via trade.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

They weren't built to have a bunch of grinders in the Bottom 6 in 2023. That was a fluke thing because of injury. In 2022, they were icing Kotkaniemi and Necas/Domi in the Bottom 6 full-time.

The Canes pre-deadline defense cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $6 mil less on the cap than both Vegas in 2023 and Colorado in 2022.

 

[AD Skinner]

Yeah but by that same thought, goalies play the most mins, and we moneypuck in that spot arguably more than any other

Sure but as we’ve seen the line between “good enough” goaltending and “great” goaltending is very fuzzy and unpredictable, whereas that line for defenders I would argue is much less so

 

[Vagrant]

See, what actually happened was the best defenseman on the FA market walked up and knocked on our front door.

If we replace Pesce and Skjei with Orlov and Karlsson, and people keep saying "that's too much defense!" I swear to God I'm gonna lose my mind.

Karlsson would be different in my mind simply because he's an offensive driver which is the understatement of a lifetime. he's generational special like Burns and if you can add a guy like that at any position you get better. the "issue" is that pesce and skjei aren't gone. I know it's early in the offseason to hand wring too much, but to make a strength stronger when such a glaring observable weakness exists... it's a tough pill. I understand the rationale, especially as it pertains to helping our top prospect, but it's an interesting decision. As far as the injuries go, that's what the depth was supposed to be for. so we didn't have stastny and stepan out there kicking the puck around in triple overtime of a playoff game. just different philosophies

 

[Negan4Coach]

You said “and look what happened”. A big component of what happened is we struggled to score against a hot goalie. So not having 2 guys that are goal scorers is a big reason that it happened. You can’t separate the two because it’s convenient. There is a direct relationship.

IDK why you always want to fixate needlessly on semantics. Consensus seemed to indicate that we were a dead-stick coming into the playoffs without those guys. Then…our usual post season nemeses were all bounced out in Round 1, increasing the odds of going all the way. Not a really controversial take.

 

[Unsustainable]

We should Kucherov Svech till the playoffs, go into the playoffs 20m over the cap and win

 

[SvechneJerk]

Is this Orlov fellow nasty like the Bunting guy? If they have signed two nasty guys I can see that moving the needle come playoff time.


Well, in my mind, that was before the playoffs. Then, strangely, during the playoffs things broke in our favor.

Enjoy.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

IDK why you always want to fixate needlessly on semantics. Consensus seemed to indicate that we were a dead-stick coming into the playoffs without those guys. Then…our usual post season nemeses were all bounced out in Round 1, increasing the odds of going all the way. Not a really controversial take.

It's not semantics. You made a comment that we need to go after goal scoring because look at what happened to us in the playoffs, ignoring that not having Patches and Svechnikov are a big reason of what happened in the playoffs. That's you ignoring key aspects of what happened only because of when it happened (speaking of semantics)

I don't think anyone disagrees that we should go after more goal scoring. They did last year (didn't work out because of injury to Pacioretty) and tried at the deadline. It's why they added Bunting as well. I hope they upgrade there some more as well.

It’s two days into UFA for a team that had the 2nd best record in the NHL and made it to the ECF without Svech and Pacioretty (and with Teravainen injured) . I’ll wait until everything gets sorted out before passing judgement.

“Edited to tone down”

 

[Svechhammer]

 

[Tryamw]

See, what actually happened was the best defenseman on the FA market walked up and knocked on our front door.

If we replace Pesce and Skjei with Orlov and Karlsson, and people keep saying "that's too much defense!" I swear to God I'm gonna lose my mind.

It's too much D.. we can't contain it/snark

 

[MinJaBen]

This fascination with defense probably started when Dundon first hired Don as GM and said that he fired Ronnie because he didn’t have “big D energy”.

Don never forgot that life lesson, even if he wasn’t sure what it meant….

 

[DaveG]

This fascination with defense probably started when Dundon first hired Don as GM and said that he fired Ronnie because he didn’t have “big D energy”.

Don never forgot that life lesson, even if he wasn’t sure what it meant….

See the signing of Mendel, Griffin

"He's 6'6 Tom.... TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY BIG D!!1one!"

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

We certainly get the most d of any team in the league, it seems.

 

[Brock Anton]

Orlov was a big Ryan Murphy fan #confirmed

 

[moses malone 12]

I think the thing about our defense is that we're tweaking it, and not necessarily adding to it. As much as its great to think that we could roll 3 elite lines on defense, I really don't think that is where we are going to end up. We are getting very strong vibes that we are looking to bring in either Karlsson and/or TDA via trade, and we already qualified Coghlan to be our man in the box.

So at a certain point, we have to move out at least one current defender if we bring in TDA or Karlsson, and if we pick up both we have to move 2, because we literally don't have enough roster spots to fit them all in. Lets say we move out both Skjei and Pesce

So we're looking at a potential defense next year of

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Karlsson
Chatfield-TDA

In reality, I think we're going to land Karlsson or TDA, which means Sjkei or Pesce will be traded, which makes our lines look like this:

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Chatfield
Skjei-Karlsson

Probably a small step backwards on pure defense, but a massive upgrade in offense. And then you can dangle Skjei and/or Pesce out in the market to go big game hunting for a forward help. And now that we've got Bunting with Jordo and Fast coming in at reasonable deals, suddenly you might have to dangle one of our forwards out there as well, and now we are talking about going BIG game hunting. And also consider that we are hearing that we are still in the market for someone like Tarasenko....

What I'm seeing right now out of the front office is a very deliberate shift to make ourselves more offensive from the blue line while still maintaining as much defensive stability as we can. And now we're looking to overhaul the forward lines, not by adding a FA (unless Tarasenko joins) but by upgrading what we already have via trade.

I'm not a Skjei bandwagon guy but I think we have to recognize what he did last year. 17 or 18 goals from a defenseman is very good. Plus, he and Pesce handled a lot of tough matchups. Tactically, they allowed RBA to manage Burns' ice time better, and Skjei contributed a lot offensively. IMO, he had a fantastic season. Had more goals than most of our forwards. To me, the dmen became the identity of the team last season. Not sure if it was by design but I'm guessing it was. Somewhat odd that Skjei and Pesce might both be on the block due to concerns about contract length.

Personally, I think the trade for EK will only occur if the Canes dictate the compensation. They will not overpay for him- I think the opposite is true. The trade occurs of SJ is essentially forced to trade him.

I see Tarasenko deal potentially happening soon. if the offer from the Canes is still out there, he will take it.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Orlov was a big Ryan Murphy fan #confirmed

I really feel like we just need to draft Ryan Murphy one more time. As they say, third time’s the charm.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I'm not a Skjei bandwagon guy but I think we have to recognize what he did last year. 17 or 18 goals from a defenseman is very good. Plus, he and Pesce handled a lot of tough matchups. Tactically, they allowed RBA to manage Burns' ice time better, and Skjei contributed a lot offensively. IMO, he had a fantastic season. Had more goals than most of our forwards. To me, the dmen became the identity of the team last season. Not sure if it was by design but I'm guessing it was. Somewhat odd that Skjei and Pesce might both be on the block due to concerns about contract length.

Personally, I think the trade for EK will only occur if the Canes dictate the compensation. They will not overpay for him- I think the opposite is true. The trade occurs of SJ is essentially forced to trade him.

I see Tarasenko deal potentially happening soon. if the offer from the Canes is still out there, he will take it.

After SJ jerking us around in the Meier trade I hope Waddell remembers and dictates assets accordingly.

 

[Negan4Coach]

It's not semantics. You made a comment that we need to go after goal scoring because look at what happened to us in the playoffs, ignoring that not having Patches and Svechnikov are a big reason of what happened in the playoffs. That's you ignoring key aspects of what happened only because of when it happened (speaking of semantics)

I don't think anyone disagrees that we should go after more goal scoring. They did last year (didn't work out because of injury to Pacioretty) and tried at the deadline. It's why they added Bunting as well. I hope they upgrade there some more as well.

It’s two days into UFA for a team that had the 2nd best record in the NHL and made it to the ECF without Svech and Pacioretty (and with Teravainen injured) . I’ll wait until everything gets sorted out before passing judgement.

“Edited to tone down”

The fact that you have to edit to "tone down" instead of just having a normal conversation really demonstrates what your underlying problem is.

 

[Lempo]

After SJ jerking us around in the Meier trade I hope Waddell remembers and dictates assets accordingly.

I forgot we got jerking.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The fact that you have to edit to "tone down" instead of just having a normal conversation really demonstrates what your underlying problem is.

Lol, this is actually really funny coming from you. Seriously funny. I edited and took out a couple of LOLs and a comment about how you like to complain.

And the fact that you focused on that one line vs the rest of it, demonstrates what your underlying problem is. You clearly don’t want a normal conversation. You rarely do.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Lol, this is actually really funny coming from you. Seriously funny. I edited and took out a couple of LOLs and a comment about how you like to complain.

And the fact that you focused on that one line vs the rest of it, demonstrates what your underlying problem is. You clearly don’t want a normal conversation. You rarely do.

I mean I really didn't do that much complaining. Just kinda non-plussed. It's not like I went off about it. Hey, they signed a really good defensemen. That's great and all. And if this is the precursor to them trading Pesce for a star forward- then that's just fine. But you have this pathological need to make it into something it isn't.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I mean I really didn't do that much complaining. Just kinda non-plussed. It's not like I went off about it. Hey, they signed a really good defensemen. That's great and all. And if this is the precursor to them trading Pesce for a star forward- then that's just fine. But you have this pathological need to make it into something it isn't.

Negan calling someone else pathological is even more funny.

To recap, This all started when I simply said not “every break went our way” because we didn’t have svech and patches and goal scoring was our issue”. I wasn’t the only poster who alluded to that.

Talk about not being able to handle reasonable conversation.