News Article: Canadiens wrapped up in legal tax evasion leak - Paradise Papers

[bsl]

It's called business and ethics are not part of it. It's all about what you can get away with these days. I choose to target the government vs the onces working around the rules. It's up the the government to create a fair playing field IMO. In business, if you value ethics and you are in competition with other companies that don't value ethics, you will lose.

So who are their competitors in momtreal?

 

[Habs Halifax]

So who are their competitors in momtreal?

There are many other factors than just the city of Montreal with a company like Molson. But go ahead and defend your right to shame our owner if this is your motives. If you think companies are honest and they do the right thing for the public, you are mistaken. If you can get away with it, you will try it.

Are you working right now and getting paid by your employer to be on HB boards?

 

[CHaracter79]

So who are their competitors in momtreal?

TONS OF BEER COMPANIES

 

[David Suzuki]

There are many other factors than just the city of Montreal with a company like Molson. But go ahead and defend your right to shame our owner if this is your motives. If you think companies are honest and they do the right thing for the public, you are mistaken. If you can get away with it, you will try it.

Are you working right now and getting paid by your employer to be on HB boards?

If the only way to defend something is "well it's legal!!!!" it's probably not worth defending.

+ even if you are posting on hf at work (as most of us are) by the definition of you being employed for a long period of time (IE not let go for being lazy or unreliable) you are a net positive for your employer aka your work is literally making them money. Not sure I follow the logic here and how it relates

 

[Hockey POTUS]

Spoken like someone who has not an ounce of business sense in his blood lol
So because the team is using LEGAL methods of deferring tax, it makes them less great? That is the epitome of silliness. News flash, MOST large corporations use every tool at their disposal to pay less tax. The only difference is, it doesnt come out in the news because some low grade, subpar, journalists think it proves a point to leak that info.

Lol. No. More business sense than you, likely. Just because it's legal doesn't mean you should do it. In Iowa it's legal for toddlers to handle guns. News flash: Doesn't make it good parenting. And it's not "deferring" tax, it's tax avoidance. It makes them much less great. And billion dollar corporations (and their CEOs) that pay a lower tax rate than the middle class people who work for them will always be a news story.

 

[MXD]

TONS OF BEER COMPANIES

I'm not sure how much decision power the Molson family still has with Molson-Coors.
I don't see them as competitors to other breweries, like, at all. Maybe Creemore is a competitor to St-Ambroise, Brasseurs du Nord and La Voie Maltée, but that's pretty much it. And I don't thnk a lot of people associate Creemore with Molson in the first place.

(... That an off-topic post of record-beating proportions)

 

[Habs Halifax]

If the only way to defend something is "well it's legal!!!!" it's probably not worth defending.

+ even if you are posting on hf at work (as most of us are) by the definition of you being employed for a long period of time (IE not let go for being lazy or unreliable) you are a net positive for your employer aka your work is literally making them money. Not sure I follow the logic here and how it relates

The point is you are spending time away from what you are paid to do. So you are doing something you feel you can get away with.... The same thing Molson is doing. Expecting people to police themselves does not work.

 

[Price4Prez]

Lol. No. More business sense than you, likely. Just because it's legal doesn't mean you should do it. In Iowa it's legal for toddlers to handle guns. News flash: Doesn't make it good parenting. And it's not "deferring" tax, it's tax avoidance. It makes them much less great. And billion dollar corporations (and their CEOs) that pay a lower tax rate than the middle class people who work for them will always be a news story.

Clearly you must have more business sense than me- you think corporations doing what they can to pay less taxes is newsworthy.

You must be one of those middle class workers you speak of, because i can feel the heat from the butt rash from here.

Also, if those big corporations didnt exist or didnt save those taxes, odds are, their ability to hire those very workers you speak of, would be greatly reduced.

So before you go on, blowing hot air and comparing business to toddlers handling guns( sounds ridiculous when reading it again doesnt it) , think a bit. It can do wonders, i promise.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Well I guess Valérie won't give them the taxes cut they've been asking for.

Tax heavens are a legal crime, we should start a revolution just for that.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Clearly you must have more business sense than me- you think corporations doing what they can to pay less taxes is newsworthy.

You must be one of those middle class workers you speak of, because i can feel the heat from the butt rash from here.

Also, if those big corporations didnt exist or didnt save those taxes, odds are, their ability to hire those very workers you speak of, would be greatly reduced.

So before you go on, blowing hot air and comparing business to toddlers handling guns( sounds ridiculous when reading it again doesnt it) , think a bit. It can do wonders, i promise.

Actually they'd still have the ability to hire all those workers, but the share holders would put families on the street before losing a penny.

 

[overlords]

Would like to see Molson get slapped, but then again, Trudeau himself looks like he's gonna get bit because of this. I'm fine with both of these things

 

[CHaracter79]

Actually they'd still have the ability to hire all those workers, but the share holders would put families on the street before losing a penny.

if a company takes dividends on profits... and waits for the fiscal year to be completed to take dividends.. its safe to assume that if there are fewer profits... they might look to make cuts in order to ensure they would get back up to those profits. making people lose jobs for sure. its a catch 22.... its always the rich that find the loopholes to save millions where in fact its done across the board on eevery scale.. every pay grade. if i could save 22$ on my tax return I would do it. what makes ie different for them to do the same on their corp tax return? If somethign was done illegally.. im all for punishment... but if something was in the norm... within limits of the law.. why is this even a thread.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Clearly you must have more business sense than me- you think corporations doing what they can to pay less taxes is newsworthy.

You must be one of those middle class workers you speak of, because i can feel the heat from the butt rash from here.

Also, if those big corporations didnt exist or didnt save those taxes, odds are, their ability to hire those very workers you speak of, would be greatly reduced.

So before you go on, blowing hot air and comparing business to toddlers handling guns( sounds ridiculous when reading it again doesnt it) , think a bit. It can do wonders, i promise.

Their ability to pay massive bonuses to the people at boardroom tables responsible for ideas like offshore tax havens would be reduced. Yes.

 

[Habs100]

It's called business and ethics are not part of it. It's all about what you can get away with these days. I choose to target the government vs the onces working around the rules. It's up the the government to create a fair playing field IMO. In business, if you value ethics and you are in competition with other companies that don't value ethics, you will lose.

But at the end of the day, the government is controlled by big business. That's the way our contemporary society works. So really this falls on us, the citizens, for letting the rich do this and not knowing about it or doing anything about it.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Canadiens have been caught creating an offshore trust or corporation in countries where they pay little or no taxes, as a way to legally avoid paying taxes in Canada.

...

this is legal, given Canada's lax corporate tax laws

Nothing to see here...

 

[QuebecPride]

Weird, some people are telling me it's about 40%.
I recall paying way more than what would be 20% of 50K, but it was a while back so don't remember quite clearly.
Could be wrong.
Are you guys only talking about income tax? Because I am including everything, all form of taxes.

You probably include RRQ (pension fund), FSS (Fonds de santé, to pay for hospitals) and the other contributions you put in your company's pension fund. Yes it's also a "déduction à la source", but RRQ and other pension fund contributions are not taxes.

 

[Habs Halifax]

But at the end of the day, the government is controlled by big business. That's the way our contemporary society works. So really this falls on us, the citizens, for letting the rich do this and not knowing about it or doing anything about it.

Governments are influenced by big business, not controlled. IMO, this needs to go higher than Canada. We need the G8 to come together and create rules for governments to follow once elected. Once we establish a new culture with how governments are run, businesses are forced to adjust. If they don't like it, go to a county where they think they can profit billions outside of the G8. There is no easy fix and we will likely need a failure to epic proportions before we change.

You say this is how our contemporary society works. But who is it working for?

 

[Tyson]

The Canadiens had a choice. And they chose not to pay Canadian taxes. Essentially, what you are saying is that you expect people in government to be ethical but not people in business.

I think what he said is that Canada robs its citizens with insane taxes and anyone within legal methods should find a way to mitigate the tax crunch.

 

[ColinO]

Governments are influenced by big business, not controlled. IMO, this needs to go higher than Canada. We need the G8 to come together and create rules for governments to follow once elected. Once we establish a new culture with how governments are run, businesses are forced to adjust. If they don't like it, go to a county where they think they can profit billions outside of the G8. There is no easy fix and we will likely need a failure to epic proportions before we change.

You say this is how our contemporary society works. But who is it working for?

Two problems with this. 1) Russia, the U.S. Italy, Japan, Great Britain, the EU, Germany, France and Canada would not be able to agree on what to have for lunch let alone create a common set of rules for governments to follow in terms of tax policy.
2) Governments have been robbing its citizens far worse than businesses have for centuries and they are the last organizations that I would want coming up with those rules anyway.

 

[Habs]

Would like to see Molson get slapped, but then again, Trudeau himself looks like he's gonna get bit because of this. I'm fine with both of these things

I hope JT gets busted, and outed, as the hypocrite he is.

 

[David Suzuki]

I think what he said is that Canada robs its citizens with insane taxes and anyone within legal methods should find a way to mitigate the tax crunch.

this all may sound good in your head but the reality is that this kind of attitude and culture of selfishness leads to the destruction of societies. Nothing is going to kill capitalism quicker than capitalists just as Marx predicted 160 years ago lol.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Two problems with this. 1) Russia, the U.S. Italy, Japan, Great Britain, the EU, Germany, France and Canada would not be able to agree on what to have for lunch let alone create a common set of rules for governments to follow in terms of tax policy.
2) Governments have been robbing its citizens far worse than businesses have for centuries and they are the last organizations that I would want coming up with those rules anyway.

Before you overcome a problem, you need to want to solve the problem. Why put pressure or shame the rule breakers / unethical people and not do the same to the people you elect who set the rules? Society as a whole is ignorant and we are easily influenced.

The two problems you present are the problem because you accept them as problems with no solutions.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

this all may sound good in your head but the reality is that this kind of attitude and culture of selfishness leads to the destruction of societies. Nothing is going to kill capitalism quicker than capitalists just as Marx predicted 160 years ago lol.

Then the gov't should close these loopholes and change the law. As long as these tax havens are legal, it is naive to expect big businesses to not take advantage of it.

Say you own a billion dollar business. You go to your tax lawyer and ask him to help you save some tax dollars. He tells you that he could legally save you millions of dollars. Would you say no because you're worried about the destruction of society?

 

[ColinO]

Before you overcome a problem, you need to want to solve the problem. Why put pressure or shame the rule breakers / unethical people and not do the same to the people you elect who set the rules? Society as a whole is ignorant and we are easily influenced.

The two problems you present are the problem because you accept them as problems with no solutions.

The solution is for citizens to discard the delusion that governments are to be trusted to act in their best interests. They don't. Democratic governments pretend to care as a means of obtaining and retaining power. The solution is not something that people are prepared to stomach at this point unfortunately.

 

[Burke the Legend]

If large numbers of people move to seek out tax havens it's a signal that our nation's taxes are too high. People will claim it's just mindless greed move but in reality opening accounts offshore is complicated, expensive and carries some significant risk because if somebody steals your money in some little banana republic haven then you have very limited and weak legal options to restore it. Rather than reflexively blaming greedy capitalists, people should stop and ponder the root source of this action-reaction because a lot of people who do this you would find are likely very good, and reasonable Canadians who you would be personally fine to associate with. Reasonable people are willing to tolerate government profligacy to an extent, but this is a signal we may have crossed that line when so many seek extreme remedies to protect their hard earned patrimony.