Canada is missing legendary presence of lemieux

[Phanuthier*]

Canada lost 1 game

No doubt of Mario as a player and his accomplishments, but its not like he led Pittsburg to the division lead.

Typical HF overreaction. You never give enough credit to the other team.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Maybe Canada has to much leadership?

When Mario was on the team he was the undisputed leader of that lockeroom simply because he was a Legend playing with superstars.

How many NHL Captains are in that lockerroom?

I agree it should not have any effect on how the team plays but if there are enough guys in that room who dont feel Sakic has the right to tell them what to do then it might cause a little disharmony.

What is "too much leadership" ?

If guys don't feel Sakic can tell them what to do, then there isn't enough leadership there.

 

[Injektilo]

exactly, it was one freakin game. upsets happen sometime, but that doesn't change the fact that they're upsets, and unlikely for a reason.

 

[mr gib]

02 all over again

 

[davemess]

What is "too much leadership" ?

If there are 5 or 6 guys all acting like the Captain in the lockeroom then you have got a problem, specially if all 6 are offering different messages to the other players.

You already have 3 head coaches in the room, last thing they need is another 6 voices speaking up.

If guys don't feel Sakic can tell them what to do, then there isn't enough leadership there.

I dont think Sakic is the type of guy these players will rally around, he isnt a legendary Mario figure or a vocal Scott Stevens type. Sakic is more likely to sit back and try to lead by example rather they step forward and try to get everybody on the same page.

 

[octopi]

Canada lost 1 game

No doubt of Mario as a player and his accomplishments, but its not like he led Pittsburg to the division lead.

Typical HF overreaction. You never give enough credit to the other team.

Good point about Mario.During the short period he played this year, his revamped team with "New and improved players" was nowhere near playoff calibre.

Noone should blame Sakic. Maybe Canada wins it all, maybe they don't. There are other good teams in the world besides Canada.

 

[Phanuthier*]

If there are 5 or 6 guys all acting like the Captain in the lockeroom then you have got a problem, specially if all 6 are offering different messages to the other players.

Who are these 5-6 guys?

Leaders lead by example. Leader's don't say "do as I say, not as I do."

You already have 3 head coaches in the room, last thing they need is another 6 voices speaking up.

I don't want 6 voices, I want 23 voices. I wanna hear 23 voices generally pissed off about losing the game. If only 6 voices care enough to hate it, then there's a serious problem.

I dont think Sakic is the type of guy these players will rally around, he isnt a legendary Mario figure or a vocal Scott Stevens type. Sakic is more likely to sit back and try to lead by example rather they step forward and try to get everybody on the same page.

These guys are elite players. They don't nessasarly need a "player to rally around." I don't see a Mario on Ottawa or Carolina to win games. Oh whatever will Carolina do if they don't have Mario to win games? Will they rally around Rod Brind'Amour? Who is Nashville to rally around and win games for, Marek Zidlicky?

 

[deandebean]

Canada looked lousy in 2002 before the semi-finals. Chill out a bit. The Swiss played a trap game , and the Canadians didn't want to play a more intense game. Point à la ligne. 9 times out of 10, this game would have been over quicker. This was the one time.

As for the team's composition, I agree that Crosby, Staal and some others would have been great, but who cares. I don't expect Canada to win gold because this tournament does not have the same flavor as in 98 or 2002 for most of the NHL players (in fact, it's obvious they look blazé). CAnada doesn't seem to have the same desire. I don't see the same passion from some pretty strong teams. I mean, the C.R. look like they don't care (they looked pityful after Jagr's injury), the Russians are very irregular to say the least (their opponents today were worse than the Swiss), the US is downright awful, Canada is full of individuals, and the Swedes, well, can't figure them out. The Finns, the Slovaks and the Swiss, team neglected by the experts, are in top shape.

But it's early. Chill.

By the way, we're all lucky the next games are in Vancouver. Because, I can tell you that the NHL team owners aren't too happy with all the injuries coming in from Torino. Vancouver will surely be the last stop for the NHL at the Games. The next ones will be with amateurs again.

 

[David]

I believe it was pierre mcguire that mentioned how lemieux's presence will greatly be missed in the olympics. Joe Sakic is undoubtedly a great leader and a great player, but he just doesn't have the legendary mystic and presence of a lemieux.

Go discuss yourself! I really hate these discuss threads.


Having said that, I think that the real leader who led by example and attitude at Salt Lake was one Stevie Yzerman from Napean Ontario and not Lemieux.

Granted Lemieux can deflect the pressure and calm the players down by his presence, but I believe that it was Stevie Why? (because he's good!) who was the inspiration and the glue that kept the team going in the right direction (along with the spark plug Theo Fleury) until they figured out how to win during the early stages of 2002.

As much as Sakic has matured as a captain over the years (I still remember when Owen Nolan first went to the All-Star game weekend and Sakic was the only one that he knew there. Nolan kept on following Sakic around like a lost puppy and it looked like Sakic was behaving like a kid in high school who lacked self confidence and because he was trying so hard to fit in with the cool kids that he was ignoring his friend Nolan and pretending not to know him in front of the cooler kids.) Joe Sakic is no Stevie Wonder.

I said two months ago that there may be too many chiefs and not enough Indians on this team...and I still hope that I am wrong.

..and as I've been saying all along, it would be nice to have a spark plug like a Crosby to replace Fleury to get the team going during the early stages when team is still trying to figure out where they belong in terms of hierarchy and their role...but this is the team we have now and this is the team we have to win with now.

Joe and the boys now have to dig down deep and get this team going or they're gonna be going home real soon!

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

Lemieux is not the reason why we lost today! We lost today, because they played like crap the first half of the game and never got it together! Lemieux is only one man, this is a team sport buddy.

 

[davemess]

Leaders lead by example. Leader's don't say "do as I say, not as I do."

Sometimes, other times leaders need to kick players butts when they are not playing up to scratch.

I don't want 6 voices, I want 23 voices. I wanna hear 23 voices generally pissed off about losing the game. If only 6 voices care enough to hate it, then there's a serious problem.

You dont want 23 voices trying to tell everybody what to do, that is crazy

These guys are elite players. They don't nessasarly need a "player to rally around." I don't see a Mario on Ottawa or Carolina to win games. Oh whatever will Carolina do if they don't have Mario to win games? Will they rally around Rod Brind'Amour? Who is Nashville to rally around and win games for, Marek Zidlicky?

Those teams dont have 23 Superstars on them and they also havent been thrown together in 2 days and asked to play. On a normal team natural leaders emerge over the months and years where you will have 2 or 3 guys tops on any team that are the leaders of that club.

In an Olympic situation the players are all thrown together at the last minute and unless you have a Mario Lemieux figurehead type then it can be difficult for anybody to claim that leadership.

 

[mazzinov]

People are so caught up in the idea that the leader has to the vocal. Sakic shouldn't have to stand up and give A 'rah-rah' speech. It's not his style, and he doesn't need to do that. Outside of Brodeur, he is the most accomplished, and respected, member on the roster. He has done more than his career, than 75% of the rest of the team will never come close to doing. If they won't listen to Sakic, then they are foolish, and disrespecting someone who is a hell of alot better than they will ever be.

With that said, it was only one game. Everyone overreacts after one loss, its embarassing. I haven't seen anyone say that we should panic. I mean Canada had 49 shots, it's not as if they were totally outplayed, just nothing was going for them. The coaching staff could, and should, have made adjustments. But this game will open the team's eyes. The team we see today against Finland, will be a much, much different team than the one from yesterday.

 

[mazzinov]

As much as Sakic has matured as a captain over the years (I still remember when Owen Nolan first went to the All-Star game weekend and Sakic was the only one that he knew there. Nolan kept on following Sakic around like a lost puppy and it looked like Sakic was behaving like a kid in high school who lacked self confidence and because he was trying so hard to fit in with the cool kids that he was ignoring his friend Nolan and pretending not to know him in front of the cooler kids.) Joe Sakic is no Stevie Wonder.

I'm not saying this isn't true, but this sounds like a huge load of crap.

 

[David]

I'm not saying this isn't true, but this sounds like a huge load of crap.

And why would I waste my time writing a huge load of crap? What would I gain from it? It's not like I'm trying to sell newspaper like some reporters who work for certain undistinguished papers in Canada!

Did you know that as talented as Sakic was during his earlier years that he was often criticized for his lack of leadership? Same thing with Stevie Y. Both were superbly talented, both were young and both wore 19 and both were given their captaincy very early.

In Sakic's case, he had his captain's 'C' given back to players like Mike Hough on a few occasions before earning it back.

Sakic's been one of my absolute favorite hockey players since he was with the Broncos so I followed his career even more closely than some of the others.

Sakic is who he is...and have grown into a very good captain. However, he'll never be a Jean Beliveau or a Stevie Yzerman who'll seek out his American friends and Detroit team mates Chelios and Brett Hall on the Salt Lake Ice immediately after their gold medal win against them to make them feel special.

In a room full of other captains, Sakic has to be even more of a unifying force and I'm not convinced that Sakic can do this. Just remember that Nordiques and Aves could not win with Sakic as the captain...it was only when Patrick Roy came along that things changed. The same Patrick Roy who Keith Jones calls the best leader that he's ever played with.

I hope that Super Joe proves me wrong during this Olympics because people do grow into their leadership roles but so far, I haven't seen any real indication that Sakic can do this at this time.

All the best to Joe and the boys in red (or black or whatever they wear these days!) this afternoon and going forward...because mathematically, it is entirely possible that they don't even get into the medal rounds!!!

 

[mazzinov]

Did you know that as talented as Sakic was during his earlier years that he was often criticized for his lack of leadership? Same thing with Stevie Y. Both were superbly talented, both were young and both wore 19 and both were given their captaincy very early.

In Sakic's case, he had his captain's 'C' given back to players like Mike Hough on a few occasions before earning it back.

Sakic's been one of my absolute favorite hockey players since he was with the Broncos so I followed his career even more closely than some of the others.

Sakic is who he is...and have grown into a very good captain. However, he'll never be a Jean Beliveau or a Stevie Yzerman who'll seek out his American friends and Detroit team mates Chelios and Brett Hall on the Salt Lake Ice immediately after their gold medal win against them to make them feel special.

In a room full of other captains, Sakic has to be even more of a unifying force and I'm not convinced that Sakic can do this. Just remember that Nordiques and Aves could not win with Sakic as the captain...it was only when Patrick Roy came along that things changed. The same Patrick Roy who Keith Jones calls the best leader that he's ever played with.

No I did not know that. Although Sakic is my favorite player, I don't know everything about him. That said though, even if Sakic was the ultimate leader, there is no way he would have won with the Nordiques anyway. The team only started to really turn the corner in the 92-93 season, IIRC. From there on, they were a much better team. Sure alot changed when Roy arrived, but we all know how vocal Roy is. Sakic isn't as vocal as Roy, but he knows what to say and when to say it. He's more lead by example. But I don't want to turn this into an Yzerman vs Sakic debate. They are both similar, amazing players.

Although I am interested about where the Nolan story came from? More for general interests, as the story itself is intruiging and very un-Sakic like.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

Okay I know Canada is still the favourite and still most likely will be in the gold Medal Game but what I saw today made me ashamed to be Canadian. Is it an overraction? Maybe, go ahead sue me then. I know the Swiss shocked the Czechs so it doesnt feel so bad losing today but the truth is Canada played like a bunch of underacheiving millionaires. Four power plays they had in the first period and they couldnt bury one. They outshot the Swiss 49-18 including 24-1 in the third. Why did they start playing Hockey in the third why not in the first?

Nash is the only Canadian that I wouldnt have stoned to death today after that game. There were very untimely penatlies Canada took there today. Where is the offense by the way? Where are the two on one breaks or three on two breaks they shoudl be getting? Okay I'll say it, Crosby would look pretty good out there right now. Cause he never takes a shift off, he constantly creates scoring chances all the time. But I guess Gretzky chose not to take a "bet" on him.

Canada has two of the toughest teams to play yet in this round robin and will actually need help from other countries just to get into 1st place. They have looked terrible in these Olympics so far. They have two games to get their act together.

Now for those that think I am overreacting think of this. Canada lost to Switzerland today. Think about that. Not Sweden, Finland not the USA, Switzerland. you know what's worse? We were shut out. Think about that. And here's the worst part. Paul Dipietro was the best player on the ice. In a game full of Sakic, Iginla, Pronger, Brodeur et al he was the best. He coudlnt hit the broad side of a barn when he was in the NHL but we made him look good out there today.

Think you are over reacting? You are now the Godfather of over reactors. "ashamed to be Canadian." You are pitiful and need to get a grip quickly or get the hell off the bus while this team marches onto the medal round and what will be a great showing.

 

[Skk82]

If there are 5 or 6 guys all acting like the Captain in the lockeroom then you have got a problem, specially if all 6 are offering different messages to the other players.

You already have 3 head coaches in the room, last thing they need is another 6 voices speaking up.

One wouldn't really find players yelling and screaming at each other in an NHL lockeroom, let alone a Team Canada one. All the players know what they need to do to accomplish the task at hand, and I don't think the matter of formal leadership is as big of a deal as you seem to make it out to be. Afterall, these are the utmost of professionals.

Surely the abscence of Mario Lemieux leaves a void, but that lockeroom is full of leadership and self-motivation. Having numerous NHL captains can only help, not hurt. I'd be willing to bet every single player sitting in the lockeroom was a captain of some team in their hockey career. That designation doesn't automatically make them not receptive to another player's voice.

 

[The Legend]

Team Canada lacks Alex Tanguay, Eric Staal, Jason Spezza, Sidney Crosby, Dion Phaneuf and Dan Boyle.

With these guys in, this would REALLY be Team Canada's 1st team. All I hope is that Canada's lost against Switzerland will bring a serious brainstorming, with Gretzky being replaced at the head of the team being the logical and only conclusion possible...

Ya that moron Gretzky, what does he know about hockey anyways?

 

[Bank Shot]

They should hang Lemieux's jockstrap over the bench, to recapture his legendary presence, and spur the guys on to victory.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Sometimes, other times leaders need to kick players butts when they are not playing up to scratch.

There are like 10 captains on this team, and almost every single player on the team wears a letter, yet they need a kick in the butt?

if that's the case, something is seriously wrong.

You dont want 23 voices trying to tell everybody what to do, that is crazy

So you need only 1 guy to say "hey, we have to play better" and everyone else to say "OOOoooh, so that's our problem." ?

Those teams dont have 23 Superstars on them and they also havent been thrown together in 2 days and asked to play. On a normal team natural leaders emerge over the months and years where you will have 2 or 3 guys tops on any team that are the leaders of that club.

I'm pretty sure teams have more then 2-3 leaders on a team. Does Detriot only have 2-3 leaders (esp during their hay day) ? NJ? Colorado?

In an Olympic situation the players are all thrown together at the last minute and unless you have a Mario Lemieux figurehead type then it can be difficult for anybody to claim that leadership.

Tell Finland that. Or Slovakia.

 

[Garry Valk]

Discuss? Discuss what?

Do you think every Canadian team that has won has had the luxury of playing with a "mystical" top 3 player of all time?

Anyone who can't get inspired playing with the likes of Sakic and for Gretzky doesn't belong on the team.

That's a bit harsh. I completely agree. We are missing that "example" type guy. No Messier. No Gretz. No Mario. All great leaders, all lead in different ways. The guys we have now just don't have that legendary presence that can pick up a room. And it's becoming obvious.