Canada Dominates U-17s.. best depth out of any hockey country!!

[Sammy*]

No, that only works when you look at the total of medals won at the summer and winter Olympics Games.

Canada is only good at hockey and curling (which is soooo lame), and basically sucks at anything else.
If there was only hockey in Russia like in Canada, there would probably be 5 times more registered hockey players. If Russia's economics were better, the country would have more than Canada's 2,500 rinks instead of 250 ...

First of all, you have no idea what you are talking about. Russia has far more kids playing hockey than Canada does.
And at least Canada is number 1 in the world by a large margin in 1 major team sport. Russia is not 1, 2 3 or 4 in any major team sport (with the exception of hockey where they are #2 at best) , which is hilarious for a country of their size.

 

[bossy22]

There's 5 at the moment, and if I am not mistaken, a few more going up.

Michael Ryder of the Canadiens might be the best up and coming star. There's Jason King.

Not sure who else. Not a huge impact and does not compare to Quebec or Ontario, but it's a start.

M. Ryder
Dan Cleary
D. Langdon

then Druken, King and John Slaney are in the AHL.

Ryder's brother is draft eligible this year I think.

No doubt a team from the Q in St. John's will help development of young Nflders.

When I was growing up not to many players where scouted and plenty of good players went unnoticed.

 

[Mountain Dude]

They're too blind to realize that.

But nobody (in Canada) will ever point out that Canada has 10 times more registered players than the Czech Republic or Russia after a Canadian loss.

So why is that a bad thing, that just further proves that its a Canadian game.

 

[wilka91*]

So why is that a bad thing, that just further proves that its a Canadian game.

Did I ever say otherwise? It was created in Canada so it's a Canadian game, the popularity of hockey is higher in Canada than anywhere else, it has more people playing hockey than any other country. It's exactly like baseball and football in the USA. The only fact is that Canada has a very short edge against other countries than the USA has in baseball and football. I'm telling you : the only thing that Canada has really won right now is the Olympics in 2002. They built on that to win 2 World Championships and 1 World Junior Championship. And I would like to remind you that the Czech Republic was way better than Canada after their triumph in Nagano, because they went on to win 3 world titles and 2 junior titles.

 

[wilka91*]

And at least Canada is number 1 in the world by a large margin in 1 major team sport.

This is funny.

I would like to remind you something : the 2002 Olympic title was Canada's first in 50 years.

This year's junior title was the first in 8 years.

And from 1998 until 2002, the Czech Republic OWNED Canada with 1 Olympic, 3 World and 2 Junior titles. That's something you forgot to mention. And during that span, Canada wasn't even in the top 2 ...

 

[Habs Icing]

This is funny.

I would like to remind you something : the 2002 Olympic title was Canada's first in 50 years.

This year's junior title was the first in 8 years.

And from 1998 until 2002, the Czech Republic OWNED Canada with 1 Olympic, 3 World and 2 Junior titles. That's something you forgot to mention. And during that span, Canada wasn't even in the top 2 ...

Wilka, you're trolling this thread now? I noticed you didn't have the courage to show your face in the Canada-Russia gold medal thread during or after the game. After the game you disappeared but here you are trolling a different thread. Nice to know you have the courage of your convictions.

And if the Czech Republic owns Canada why is it that 12 of the juniors on the Czech republic team play in the CHL? Must be that the Czech Republic has such a dynamite system. They can only develop their players up to a certain level after that they need to send them outside. And except for Russia, the same is true of the other European nations.

 

[RandV]

This is funny.

I would like to remind you something : the 2002 Olympic title was Canada's first in 50 years.

This year's junior title was the first in 8 years.

And from 1998 until 2002, the Czech Republic OWNED Canada with 1 Olympic, 3 World and 2 Junior titles. That's something you forgot to mention. And during that span, Canada wasn't even in the top 2 ...

You honestly can't expect one team to dominate and win every tournament in formats where it's decided by one game. Of course Canada's not gonna win every tournament.

Speaking of the numbers game in hockey, while it isn't completely relevant to Canada, you gotta wonder how good Sweden or Finland would be with Canada's population. There's only 12 million people between the two countries.

 

[Macman]

This is funny.

I would like to remind you something : the 2002 Olympic title was Canada's first in 50 years.

This year's junior title was the first in 8 years.

And from 1998 until 2002, the Czech Republic OWNED Canada with 1 Olympic, 3 World and 2 Junior titles. That's something you forgot to mention. And during that span, Canada wasn't even in the top 2 ...

You forgot to mention a lot yourself. Like how Canada has won 90 per cent of the best-on-best competitions ever played. There's no getting around that, but you try by bringing up the fact Canada didn't win the Olympics for 50 years, as if they were supposed to when they were forced to send rank amateurs while the Russians and others were allowed to send their absolute best. Whatever helps you cling to the myth of Russian hockey supremacy, I guess.

Take the time and do a search of the world juniors predictions thread. You'll find me predicting that Canada would average over six goals a game and steamroll the competition, just like they did during the last lockout in '95. I'd love to take credit for being a genius prognosticator, but it was a no-brainer. Why? Because Canada puts more U20 players in the NHL each year than any other country. We go into this tournament every year with four to six of our best players not available. And no, it's not the same for everyone else. Some countries haven't lost that many in the history of the tournament. How many juniors did the Soviets lose to the NHL between 1977 and 1990? Oh right, none.

How many junior golds do you think Canada would have won if Gretzky had been able to play more than once as a 16 year old? Or Lemieux, Thornton and Lecavalier at 17? Or Rick Nash and Eric Staal at all? The number of Canadian no-shows numbers in the dozens since this tournament began. Do you honestly think Canada would have lost to the U.S. last year if we'd been able to bring Nathan Horton, Rick Nash, Eric Staal and Patrice Bergeron?

You are right about one thing. The Czechs did own us for a few years. But you IGNORED the fact we've owned them the rest of the time. So keep dreaming. Keep ignoring the fact that your beloved Russians haven't won a meaningful senior tournament in almost 25 years. And keep making excuses every time Canada wins cuz it is amusing.

 

[Mountain Dude]

This is funny.

I would like to remind you something : the 2002 Olympic title was Canada's first in 50 years.

This year's junior title was the first in 8 years.

And from 1998 until 2002, the Czech Republic OWNED Canada with 1 Olympic, 3 World and 2 Junior titles. That's something you forgot to mention. And during that span, Canada wasn't even in the top 2 ...

We've only ever lost 3 best on best tournament out of 9. Up until 98 the Olympics didn't mean **** to Canadians because it was just a bunch of amatures against the European elite leagues. Had we had our best all through the 50-current we would have 10 gold medals.

Also, nobody is dissing the czechs, they are a formiddable foe, especially considering their small population.

 

[jekoh]

And if the Czech Republic owns Canada why is it that 12 of the juniors on the Czech republic team play in the CHL? Must be that the Czech Republic has such a dynamite system. They can only develop their players up to a certain level after that they need to send them outside. And except for Russia, the same is true of the other European nations.

Really ? How many WJC players from the Swedish or Finnish team play in Canada ?

As for the "system", if Czechia can compete despite having such a small number of players, it doesn't indicate their system is any weaker -- rather to the contrary...

 

[SENATOR]

First of all, you have no idea what you are talking about. Russia has far more kids playing hockey than Canada does.
And at least Canada is number 1 in the world by a large margin in 1 major team sport. Russia is not 1, 2 3 or 4 in any major team sport (with the exception of hockey where they are #2 at best) , which is hilarious for a country of their size.

It is hard to play kid's organized hockey in 250 arenas in Russia, when most of the ice time goes to adult hockey programs. There is a very limited number of hockey schools in Russia. I believe the number is about 50 to 10/100=5000-10000 kids. The Russian coaching is way superior to the Canadian one on the lower developmental level and it shows so well in the Russian representation in NHL. It is also remarkable, how year after year, they produce the top talent from that number of participating kids, only equal to the Canadian one. The rest of the Russian young ones, play shinny hockey on the frozen ponds and then the best are chosen for the hockey programs. As the story goes with Valery Kharlamov, who played weekend shinny till the age of ten and then went for try outs to the famous Red Army kids hockey program, but was refused, because of his diminutive size. Where all Canadian kids who wants to play, even girls, play organized hockey. Russia in a way is soccer Brazil of hockey. Resembling that famous sandy beech soccer development. With improving economics, there will be more and more NHL caliber Russian players. One day, RSL will be paying adequately to its players and no Russian kids will ever play for the Stanley. They already avoid Canadian junior. So, Canada must let go its ephemeral dreams as England in soccer, to claim that hockey game is only theirs. It is silly and it is very offensive to the world. In the light of things, that Russia has the best international hockey record by none.
They are may be not inventors of the games, but they did improved to a degree to be called one. The game of hockey what is played now in NHL is the game invented by Russians. They came up with cycling, unit of five-pyaterka, drop passes, setting up the power play rash, breakaway plays, d-man, leaving a point on a pp for a pass in a slot and many, many other things. There are only one Russian builder as Tarasov in the Canadian hall of fame, which is a gross injustice. Swedes came up with the trap defensive system and the torpedo one. Checks had their own input. .

One more thing. Sydney Grosbys of Canadian hockey would so much refined as hockey players, if they would be coached to work on their skills. What I see in Canadian junior team is good average skills (Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, Crosby and Dion Phaneuf are above average) and with a lot of size. You have to wonder, if year after year, Canadian juniors stay clean. I very much doubt so. Sports and drugs do not mix together

 

[RorschachWJK]

Interesting post by Senator. Have you lived there, or how do you know all those facts?

Edit: I see another flame war erupting though.

 

[Macman]

The Russian coaching is way superior to the Canadian one on the lower developmental level and it shows so well in the Russian representation in NHL.

You mean like how there are about 400 Canadians in the NHL to about 50 for Russia?

In the light of things, that Russia has the best international hockey record by none.

Not when everyone gets to use their best players. Not even close. Russia's record when that happens is pathetic.

The game of hockey what is played now in NHL is the game invented by Russians. They came up with cycling, unit of five-pyaterka, drop passes, setting up the power play rash, breakaway plays, d-man, leaving a point on a pp for a pass in a slot and many, many other things.

Let me guess. Russia invented the television, the car and Bobby Orr too?

Sydney Grosbys of Canadian hockey would so much refined as hockey players, if they would be coached to work on their skills.

Thanks, we'll get Sid to work on his skills right away.

What I see in Canadian junior team is good average skills (Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, Crosby and Dion Phaneuf are above average) and with a lot of size. You have to wonder, if year after year, Canadian juniors stay clean. I very much doubt so. Sports and drugs do not mix together

Hoo boy.

 

[Fredrik]

Russia has alot more young players who play hockey than Canada.

Do you have a source for that statement? I find it very hard to believe since it's well known very few Russians play organized hockey. Unlike canadians...

They may not be "registered" because as everyone knows, the Russian infrastructure for stuff like that , is shall we say, antiquated, & inaccurate .

We all know Russia is corrupt and full of ****. That was your point wasn't it? And I disagree.

 

[alecfromtherock]

One more thing. Sydney Grosbys of Canadian hockey would so much refined as hockey players, if they would be coached to work on their skills. What I see in Canadian junior team is good average skills (Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, Crosby and Dion Phaneuf are above average) and with a lot of size. You have to wonder, if year after year, Canadian juniors stay clean. I very much doubt so. Sports and drugs do not mix together

It is team Atlantic not team East, they did win Bronze this year.

Of course there are players that have used physical enchaining drugs, just look at the height and weight of the junior aged players compared to the NHL players.

NHL players average weight in 2001-2002 was 204.1 pounds and average height is 6'1"

Canada World Junior 2005 average weight 203 pounds and average height of 6'1"

There is only a slight difference between the 2, .1 of a pound.

Some players have been in ‘heavy weight training’ since midget and lower.

Just look at Ovechkin 6'2" 188 pounds: Russia’s average weight is 177 pounds with 5 over 200 pounds(23%), Canada 12 over 200 pounds(55%)

Players who practise every day on their skating and skills should not be at a determent against players that spend too much time in the gym. The NHL is getting bruitier and bruiter with each passing year focussing more on the physical play then skill.

Would it surprise coach Sudder or anyone if some of his championship players were not clean?

All North American sports at the professional level have problems with players seeking to better them selves physically thus giving them then an edge. Hopefully Senator John McCain will solve all of those problems with his bill calling for more throughout investigations when dealing with steroids(the bill will instantly get passed into law because George W. Included it in his state of the union speech)

 

[Mountain Dude]

It is hard to play kid's organized hockey in 250 arenas in Russia, when most of the ice time goes to adult hockey programs. There is a very limited number of hockey schools in Russia. I believe the number is about 50 to 10/100=5000-10000 kids. The Russian coaching is way superior to the Canadian one on the lower developmental level and it shows so well in the Russian representation in NHL. It is also remarkable, how year after year, they produce the top talent from that number of participating kids, only equal to the Canadian one. The rest of the Russian young ones, play shinny hockey on the frozen ponds and then the best are chosen for the hockey programs. As the story goes with Valery Kharlamov, who played weekend shinny till the age of ten and then went for try outs to the famous Red Army kids hockey program, but was refused, because of his diminutive size. Where all Canadian kids who wants to play, even girls, play organized hockey. Russia in a way is soccer Brazil of hockey. Resembling that famous sandy beech soccer development. With improving economics, there will be more and more NHL caliber Russian players. One day, RSL will be paying adequately to its players and no Russian kids will ever play for the Stanley. They already avoid Canadian junior. So, Canada must let go its ephemeral dreams as England in soccer, to claim that hockey game is only theirs. It is silly and it is very offensive to the world. In the light of things, that Russia has the best international hockey record by none.
They are may be not inventors of the games, but they did improved to a degree to be called one. The game of hockey what is played now in NHL is the game invented by Russians. They came up with cycling, unit of five-pyaterka, drop passes, setting up the power play rash, breakaway plays, d-man, leaving a point on a pp for a pass in a slot and many, many other things. There are only one Russian builder as Tarasov in the Canadian hall of fame, which is a gross injustice. Swedes came up with the trap defensive system and the torpedo one. Checks had their own input. .

One more thing. Sydney Grosbys of Canadian hockey would so much refined as hockey players, if they would be coached to work on their skills. What I see in Canadian junior team is good average skills (Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, Crosby and Dion Phaneuf are above average) and with a lot of size. You have to wonder, if year after year, Canadian juniors stay clean. I very much doubt so. Sports and drugs do not mix together

Well this is a bunch of nonsense.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Well this is a bunch of nonsense.

You're the expert on Russian junior hockey? While some of the stuff he said is questionable, he seems to know a few things about Russian hockey. But you don't need to acknowledge that, just deny everything and keep trolling. Works well for someone who can't base his opinions on anything.

 

[Mountain Dude]

You're the expert on Russian junior hockey? While some of the stuff he said is questionable, he seems to know a few things about Russian hockey. But you don't need to acknowledge that, just deny everything and keep trolling. Works well for someone who can't base his opinions on anything.

Some of it was pretty good, he did mention that a lot of the way hockey is played today is a Russian style. Well it kinda is, its actually a hybrid style from many nations.

He also claims that Russia is the best hockey country, which is either a bold faced lie, or just sheer ignorance.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Some of it was pretty good, he did mention that a lot of the way hockey is played today is a Russian style. Well it kinda is, its actually a hybrid style from many nations.

He also claims that Russia is the best hockey country, which is either a bold faced lie, or just sheer ignorance.

Now we start talking.

I also thought that his comments about the influence of Russia on style of play were interesting, and partly true too. To what extent, I don't know though.

And I agree, Russia definitely is not the best hockey country, becuse that's Canada.

 

[Mountain Dude]

I'm also confused maybe because english isn't his first language, but is he saying that juniors tend to take a lot of steriods?

 

[RorschachWJK]

I'm also confused maybe because english isn't his first language, but is he saying that juniors tend to take a lot of steriods?

Yes, that's what he seems to wondering about. I don't know how much truth there is in this case, but unfortunately doping seems very common in almost all sports now. I wouldn't be surprised if there are cases among each country's hockey juniors as well.

 

[Mountain Dude]

Yes, that's what he seems to wondering about. I don't know how much truth there is in this case, but unfortunately doping seems very common in almost all sports now. I wouldn't be surprised if there are cases among each country's hockey juniors as well.

Yeah, same here, I couldn't say for sure either way.

 

[QuickDynamite]

Canada has dominated pretty much every tournament the past 3-4 years and people still undermine them? Unbelievable.

 

[Slay]

And at least Canada is number 1 in the world by a large margin in 1 major team sport. Russia is not 1, 2 3 or 4 in any major team sport (with the exception of hockey where they are #2 at best) , which is hilarious for a country of their size.

Canada is the 2nd largest country in the world and it is pretty "hilarious" that Canada doesn't have much exept hockey.

You don't quite know what you are talking about. Russia is very good in a lot of sports. Soccer and basketball are the only "major team sports" that suits well with your statement (rugby counts?). Summer countries dominate soccer, Brazil particulary, it has more population than Russia and don't have much except soccer and volleyball.

Russia is always a medal contender in Volleyball (#1 team in the world rankins 2 years ago.
imho, top 2-3 team at the moment with huge potential), in Water Polo (Hungary is the best, then Serbia and Russia), Handball (3 golds of the last 5 Olympics mean something). Plus Hockey and Bandy.

Not to mention Russia develops almost every major sport and is always one of the favourites at most of them. It is not suddenness Russia won 90+ medals at the Olympics by winning in very
different sports. That shows how good Russian coaches are (and hundreds of them work for the glory of other countries) and how much resources are used, though still not enough. A lot of resources are lacking comparing to the main rivals in many sports. And every of these countless rivals can bring this argument: "you have so big country. why don't you totally dominate this sport?".

 

[Sammy*]

Canada is the 2nd largest country in the world and it is pretty "hilarious" that Canada doesn't have much exept hockey.

Son, you gotta figure out the difference between Land mass & population.You must be quite disturbed about a Country the size of Greenland cant produce any world class hockey players.
BTW, Russia has about double the Landmass & 5 times the population of Canada.