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World Cup: Canada 4 Nations Tournament 2025 Roster Talk

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Dirtyf1ghter said:
The decline of Canadian hockey is relative. Above all, the USA, Russia and Europe have considerably increased their levels and will continue to increase.

The international level of hockey 2025 has never been higher. And will be even more so in the following years.

Canada like Sweden and Finland cannot do better than currently. This is the ceiling level.
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Canada obviously can't do better when they win almost every best on best. Russia is a declining nation population wise. US has a wealth gap that will never allow the talented poor to rise to the top.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
The decline of Canadian hockey is relative. Above all, the USA, Russia and Europe have considerably increased their levels and will continue to increase.

The international level of hockey 2025 has never been higher. And will be even more so in the following years.

Canada like Sweden and Finland cannot do better than currently. This is the ceiling level.
Click to expand...

Russia has a declining population.

The amount of NHL teams has greatly expanded, so talent has watered down just naturally. Its harder for canadians to make up 60% of the league when the league has grown so much to so many american markets. The marginal canadian vs. euro vs. american players are all relatively equal in skill.

The best of the best is still canadians and they will maintain the top. As they have proven time and time again.
 
GirardSpinorama said:
Canada obviously can't do better when they win almost every best on best. Russia is a declining nation population wise. US has a wealth gap that will never allow the talented poor to rise to the top.
Click to expand...
A little humility. 1 defeat by 2 goals, 2 victories in overtime and 1 victory with Finland coming back to 1 goal. Canada did not crush its opponents.

Russia is not artificially filling the country to hide a decline of births. The population is declining but the birth gap compared to Canada remains X4 and in a context of war. Before the war it was 1,900,000 births for 145,000,000. Birth rate significantly higher than Canada. And then without wanting to be controversial, Russia will expand in the coming years (part of Russian-speaking Ukraine and probably Belarus after Lukashenko)

If Russia equalizes its productivity with Sweden and Finland, it becomes an extremely strong nation and the Russians do better and better in training.

USA is a rich country anyway. Their young people are getting stronger and stronger in hockey.
 
Mathieukferland said:
View attachment 772156

videoPlayer

www.rds.ca www.rds.ca

I suppose if this will concretize there is going to need to be a thread; obviously you want to win every tournament you play in but given the odd status of this proposed tournament I would include even more developmental type players that haven’t played for senior Canada teams to prepare them for the best on best in 2026 in Italy. Hence the inclusion of certain names that I probably wouldn’t take to a full best on best like Lafrenière, Byram, Chychrun, Byfield



Hill
Thompson
Hart (2018)

Toews-Makar (2018)
Theodore-Pietrangelo
Morrisey-Dobson
Chychrun
Byram

Crosby-MacKinnon-Marchand
Bédard-McDavid-McTavish
Stamkos-Point-Scheifele
Stone-Danault-Marner
Lafrenière
Byfield



Overall this is a weak team compared to the team that won all 3 best on best tournaments in the 2010s but I would still say that they are co-favourites with the USA
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Funny enough, that team in the photo is my starting 20 for the 2026 Olympics, except..

Out: Marchand, McTavish, Cirelli, Chabot, Montembault
In: Celebrini, Bennett, Suzuki, Toews, Logan Thompson

on D:
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
A little humility. 1 defeat by 2 goals, 2 victories in overtime and 1 victory with Finland coming back to 1 goal. Canada did not make it through the tournament.

Russia is not artificially filling the country to hide a decline in the number of births. The number is declining but the birth gap compared to Canada remains X4 and in a context of war. Before the war it was 1,900,000 births for 145,000,000. Birth rate significantly higher than Canada.

If Russia equalizes its productivity with Sweden and Finland, it becomes an extremely strong nation and the Russians do better and better in training.

USA is a rich country anyway. Their young people are getting stronger and stronger in hockey.
Click to expand...

USA is a country with a few very rich people yes. But the young are getting left behind, there is no middle class or social support system to help talent rise to the top. Russia needs to worry about their young men going to war rather than focused on hockey.

The first US game had an empty net goal, why did you not mention it? Seems like you're the type who manipulate your data giving me no reason to trust it.
 
GirardSpinorama said:
Russia has a declining population.

The amount of NHL teams has greatly expanded, so talent has watered down just naturally. Its harder for canadians to make up 60% of the league when the league has grown so much to so many american markets. The marginal canadian vs. euro vs. american players are all relatively equal in skill.

The best of the best is still canadians and they will maintain the top. As they have proven time and time again.
Click to expand...
The extension of the number of teams does not change much in the ratio. Besides, if we reduced the number of teams to 6 - Canada would probably lose a few more %.

Do a random NHL fantasy draft - you'll see that there aren't that many Canadians in the world's top 100. 35 approximately.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
The extension of the number of teams does not change much in the ratio. Besides, if we reduced the number of teams to 6 - Canada would probably lose a few more %.

Do a random NHL fantasy draft - you'll see that there aren't that many Canadians in the world's top 100. 35 approximately.
Click to expand...

How did you come up with that?
 
Nucks2001 said:
Doesn’t really matter when the top 3 players in the entire world are Canadian
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Very subjective. The level of the players is very homogeneous and defensive play is often very neglected in the evaluations. McDavid is not very strong defensively, McKinnon, there are many players who can challenge his status (Draisaitl, Kucherov and the 3rd I don't even know who you are talking about. Makar? Hedman remains a monster in defensive value in my eyes.

Objectively in PPG, you have 2, 4 and 6 for the offensive players with 2 players not very strong in defense and 2, 5, 7 among the defenders knowing that Hedman 6th is indefinitely superior in defensive play.

TheBeastCoast said:
"Yeah you might win every best on best tournament now....but give it 3 or 4....decades and that will be no more!" Just shaking in my boots over here.
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From guys born in 2011 and after you will see the change. So not too long.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
Very subjective. The level of the players is very homogeneous and defensive play is often very neglected in the evaluations. McDavid is not very strong defensively, McKinnon, there are many players who can challenge his status (Draisaitl, Kucherov and the 3rd I don't even know who you are talking about. Makar? Hedman remains a monster in defensive value in my eyes.

Objectively in PPG, you have 2, 4 and 6 for the offensive players with 2 players not very strong in defense and 2, 5, 7 among the defenders knowing that Hedman 6th is indefinitely superior in defensive play.


From guys born in 2011 and after you will see the change. So not too long.
Click to expand...

The difference is all of makar, mcdavid and mack play on Canada. Where as Kucherov, Drai and Hedman all play on different countries.
 
GirardSpinorama said:
USA is a country with a few very rich people yes. But the young are getting left behind, there is no middle class or social support system to help talent rise to the top. Russia needs to worry about their young men going to war rather than focused on hockey.

The first US game had an empty net goal, why did you not mention it? Seems like you're the type who manipulate your data giving me no reason to trust it.
Click to expand...
Well, that's still two goals ahead. In regulation time Canada scored as many goals as conceded. We can't talk about domination.

The average American's purchasing power is indefinitely higher than that of the average European, crushed by heavy taxes and low wages. Qualified French people leave the country for these reasons.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
Well, that's still two goals ahead. In regulation time Canada scored as many goals as conceded. We can't talk about domination.

The average American's purchasing power is indefinitely higher than that of the average European, crushed by heavy taxes and low wages.
Click to expand...

Domination in the context that Canada has won more best on best tournaments than every other country combined.

Average is pulled up by the billionaires.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
Very subjective. The level of the players is very homogeneous and defensive play is often very neglected in the evaluations. McDavid is not very strong defensively, McKinnon, there are many players who can challenge his status (Draisaitl, Kucherov and the 3rd I don't even know who you are talking about. Makar? Hedman remains a monster in defensive value in my eyes.

Objectively in PPG, you have 2, 4 and 6 for the offensive players with 2 players not very strong in defense and 2, 5, 7 among the defenders knowing that Hedman 6th is indefinitely superior in defensive play.


From guys born in 2011 and after you will see the change. So not too long.
Click to expand...
Are you seriously comparing 2025 Victor Hedman to Cale Makar?
I want the rest of this forum to read this man’s comment.

I’ll give you that Drai and Kuch can challenge MacKinnon. However, right now as I stated in my comment, MacKinnon is the better player.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
You don't need to be a millionaire to get a hockey license. With 25,000 dollars/year my father did it for me.
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You think any parent making 25k/year (even inflated) can do that today? Especially doing whats necessary to get players to an elite level? You also.need more than $ such as the numerous canadian hockey volunteers and passionate billet families that support those kids.
 
Nucks2001 said:
Are you seriously comparing 2025 Victor Hedman to Cale Makar?
I want the rest of this forum to read this man’s comment.

I’ll give you that Drai and Kuch can challenge MacKinnon. However, right now as I stated in my comment, MacKinnon is the better player.
Click to expand...
If defensive play doesn't matter to you then I would tell you that Quinn Hughes is better.

Otherwise, I don't evaluate players based on their number of points. Especially the defenders.

Coming out of McDavid, McKinnon and Makar it's still not very crazy compared to previous generations. I went through a period where you could have said that the 10 best players in the world are Canadian.

GirardSpinorama said:
You think any parent making 25k/year (even inflated) can do that today?
Click to expand...

I do it for 2 kids with the same salary. Well then I don't spend my money on Netflix account, PSN/video game subscription at 70 euros, alcohol, cigarettes, escort, iPhone, etc...
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
Very subjective. The level of the players is very homogeneous and defensive play is often very neglected in the evaluations. McDavid is not very strong defensively, McKinnon, there are many players who can challenge his status (Draisaitl, Kucherov and the 3rd I don't even know who you are talking about. Makar? Hedman remains a monster in defensive value in my eyes.

Objectively in PPG, you have 2, 4 and 6 for the offensive players with 2 players not very strong in defense and 2, 5, 7 among the defenders knowing that Hedman 6th is indefinitely superior in defensive play.


From guys born in 2011 and after you will see the change. So not too long.
Click to expand...
Sure lol
 
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