World Cup: Canada 4 Nations Tournament 2025 Roster Talk

[FLAMESFAN]

Yet in the top 20 forwards with the most PPG, there are only 7 Canadians.

In the top 20 defenders with the most PPG, there are only 7 Canadians.

In the top 20 goalkeepers with the best efficiency, there are only 6 Canadians.

In fact, if you take NHL elite players, it's already at 33%.

What country had better?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

What country had better?

Canada ahead of USA by very little (19 US players in the list). Europe is 21.

So this clearly shows that we are moving towards change. Europeans has gone ahead. It had never happened before.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Canada ahead of USA by very little (19 US players in the list). Europe is 21.

So this clearly shows that we are moving towards change. Europeans has gone ahead. It had never happened before.

So what you are saying is that no other nation has more players in the top 20 PPG than Canada? Cool.

All big pro leagues are more global now than 20 years ago. This is not unique to just hockey.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

So what you are saying is that no other nation has more players in the top 20 PPG than Canada? Cool.

All big pro leagues are more global now than 20 years ago. This is not unique to just hockey.

I never said otherwise. I just said that USA was very close and will become better than Canada in the near future and precisely that the NHL was going to diversify more and more with a regressive % of the number of Canadians.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

I never said otherwise. I just said that USA was very close and will become better than Canada in the near future and precisely that the NHL was going to diversify more and more with a regressive % of the number of Canadians.

These is simply no evidence for this.

 

[Tripledeke333]

I still feel the transfer of power will soon happen between Canada and the USA. Each year the level of USA gets closer to Canada. Even 10 years ago, the gap was huge, 20 years ago even more. Among the under-15s, the Americans seem to be better. Interest in hockey rises in the USA, falls in Canada.

USA may eventually beat Canada, but I don’t think there will ever be a true transfer of power in the sense that USA will never be as dominant as Canada has been. Hockey is a very tough sport to dominate and has always been a sport where underdogs have a chance. What Canada has done on best on best tournaments is truly remarkable. Certainly USA will be a very tough opponent and evenly matched rival for Canada.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

These is simply no evidence for this.

From what I saw of the last 3 Brick Invitational generations, the Americans were clearly better.

The Canadian kids were dominated and the only ones who did well played a game without passing.

A statistic that I took at first glance : in the top 25 of the last tournament, 22 Americans for 3 Canadians. 9 years ago (2005 generation- a reference because most have confirmed), there were 14 Canadians for 11 Americans. And yet they are the same invited teams.

The first signals on the 2012-2013-2014 generations are still harbingers of change.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

USA may eventually beat Canada, but I don’t think there will ever be a true transfer of power in the sense that USA will never be as dominant as Canada has been. Hockey is a very tough sport to dominate and has always been a sport where underdogs have a chance. What Canada has done on best on best tournaments is truly remarkable. Certainly USA will be a very tough opponent and evenly matched rival for Canada.

Canada's dominance is inherited from a past where Canada represented 100% of the world's elite because other countries did not play hockey. Yes, it will never happen again.

 

[JackSlater]

No better time to shit on Canadian hockey and predict Canada's demise than... immediately after Canada wins another big event with the best players there.

 

[Mathieukferland]

No better time to shit on Canadian hockey and predict Canada's demise than... immediately after Canada wins another big event with the best players there.

Hey, some 8 year olds in a pay for play tournament lost, it’s a clear sign that Canada will be Latvia in 20 years. That poster should go worry about hockey in his own country and their mess of a development system and tinpot league that requires a massive influx of Quebec players and coaches to keep it on life support rather than criticising *checks notes* the number 1 country in the world that is in the middle of producing 5 straight first overall picks and 15+ picks per first round for the next 2 years

 

[Bradely]

I never said otherwise. I just said that USA was very close and will become better than Canada in the near future and precisely that the NHL was going to diversify more and more with a regressive % of the number of Canadians.

While I tend to agree with alot of what your saying, based solely on NHL working very hard to develop USA market, the bold part remains to be done and proven.

One thing is sure, Canada's development program is poor. It was not required previously, talent was there by numbers. But if it becomes way better, I can see Canada still domination International tournament for some long time.

 

[JackSlater]

Hey, some 8 year olds in a pay for play tournament lost, it’s a clear sign that Canada will be Latvia in 20 years. That poster should go worry about hockey in his own country and their mess of a development system and tinpot league that requires a massive influx of Quebec players and coaches to keep it on life support rather than criticising *checks notes* the number 1 country in the world that is in the middle of producing 5 straight first overall picks and 15+ picks per first round for the next 2 years

When the USA 8 year olds come to the NHL there will be hell to pay, that's for sure. While Canada waits to see which or any of Bedard, Celebrini, Schaefer, McKenna, DuPont become superstars, those 8 year olds loom large. It really casts a shadow over Canada wining this event.

 

[rielledup]

The convo about US being on par with Canada now as far as developing players is really premature. Canada has had 3 times the amount of first round draft picks as the US in the last 5 years. Also look at the elite talent Canada has coming in Bedard Celebrini McKenna. The US is just in a particularly good period as far as elite talent in best on best.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

While I tend to agree with alot of what your saying, based solely on NHL working very hard to develop USA market, the bold part remains to be done and proven.

One thing is sure, Canada's development program is poor. It was not required previously, talent was there by numbers. But if it becomes way better, I can see Canada still domination International tournament for some long time.

I think we still have 20 years with Canada No. 1. No more.

Hockey USA really seems to be going at another speed. Until then I always saw young Canadians better than Americans. But I have the feeling that it stops after the 2010 generation.

 

[ORRFForever]

Hey, some 8 year olds in a pay for play tournament lost, it’s a clear sign that Canada will be Latvia in 20 years. That poster should go worry about hockey in his own country and their mess of a development system and tinpot league that requires a massive influx of Quebec players and coaches to keep it on life support rather than criticising *checks notes* the number 1 country in the world that is in the middle of producing 5 straight first overall picks and 15+ picks per first round for the next 2 years

After the 2016 - 2019 drafts, I could see fans from other countries thinking Canada was done. How could they not? Even Canadians were worried.

Thankfully it did not last.

The convo about US being on par with Canada now as far as developing players is really premature. Canada has had 3 times the amount of first round draft picks as the US in the last 5 years. Also look at the elite talent Canada has coming in Bedard Celebrini McKenna. The US is just in a particularly good period as far as elite talent in best on best.

This is the best U.S. team in 30 years - giving credit where credit is due.

But Canada being in a lull was NOT going to last forever.

 

[Bradely]

I think we still have 20 years with Canada No. 1. No more.

Hockey USA really seems to be going at another speed. Until then I always saw young Canadians better than Americans. But I have the feeling that it stops after the 2010 generation.

20 years is way to long, for me that remains pure speculation. So much things can change.
But one thing is sure, Hockey is currently developing at a high speed in the US and NHL is really really target USA markets.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

After the 2016 - 2019 drafts, I could see fans from other countries thinking Canada was done. How could they not? Even Canadians were worried.

Thankfully it did not last.

Most of the highly anticipated Canadian players since 2020 are much weaker than expected (Lafreniere, Byfield, Drysdale, Wright, Savoie) or slightly disappointing (Power, Bedard). Only Celebrini seems to live up to expectations.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

20 years is way to long, for me that remains pure speculation. So much things can change.
But one thing is sure, Hockey is currently developing at a high speed in the US and NHL is really really target USA markets.

I'm speculating from previous data. We went from 61% Canadians/17% Americans in 1998 to 41% Canadians/28% Americans in 2025.

Why would it stop?

For things to change to Canada's advantage, positive signals are needed such as an increase in the number of young people licensed.

The more recent North American generations I saw playing - Americans were clearly superior. I don't see Canada competing with the 2010s generation. I don't see how it's possible with the profound dynamics observed over more than a century and the observation made on the decline of hockey (popularity, licensees) in Canada.

The Brick is the first revealing element. The 2005 or 2007 Canadian generation dominated this event. The latest generations have not been up to the task.

Honestly, I say 20 years out of caution. My real thought is that it will be before.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The population has increased because Trudeau has brought in more than 1 million 40-year-olds per year in recent years.

But in terms of births, USA still has 10 times more births and a higher fertility index (1.6 vs 1.2)

Anyway, I don't see the connection. If your guys don't play hockey, it won't raise the level.

I gave you a statistical census as it is, observing a 20% drop in the ratio of Canadian players in the NHL in 27 years and a 9% drop in 9 years.

What's funny is that in the 2000s when I talked about the fact that Canadians would become a minority in the NHL in the next decade, I had the same kind of reaction of denial. Yet it happened. There I tell you, that Canadians will become less than 1/3 in the next decade.

The 40 year olds will have kids that will go through the superior canadian hockey system. Just like how france is essentially irrelevant in football and basketball without second gen immigrant kids.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

The 40 year olds will have kids that will go through the superior canadian hockey system. Just like how france is essentially irrelevant in football and basketball without second gen immigrant kids.

1.2 children/woman by massively importing so really more like 0.9/1. 350,000 births for 42,000,000 inhabitants is starving.

I don't really see the analogy with soccer/basketball in France since for the time being, Canadian hockey is exclusively made up of players with deep Canadian ancestry.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

1.2 children/woman by massively importing so really more like 0.9/1.

I don't really see the analogy with soccer/basketball in France since for the time being, Canadian hockey is exclusively made up of players with deep Canadian ancestry.

Immigrants will have a higher fertility rate than the average, it'll take them time to settle in.

And in the future, canada will have more stars without deep canadian ancestry.

 

[nucks88]

The league has expanded also. Players have to come form some where. The more they expand the league the more watered down the game becomes. Hockey at the minor level has become an elite sport. The average Canadian family can't afford the cost of putting a child in the game. This effects the numbers of players getting to the pro level. Still the top players in the world are mostly Canadian.

This 1000%…..

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Immigrants will have a higher fertility rate than the average, it'll take them time to settle in.

And in the future, canada will have more stars without deep canadian ancestry.

I never said otherwise. I said you will become a minority in the 2040s.

But immigrants will not raise the country's level in sport. They will replace the historic Canadians. France was already world champion in 98 (Soccer) and Olympic finalist (Basket) in 2000 with very few non-European immigrants.

I still have the feeling that Euro-Canadians will always remain over-represented in hockey, however, compared to their actual demographic weight. It is rather in Soccer/Basketball that the changes have taken place in Canada. With an increase in level for once.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I never said otherwise. I said you will become a minority in the 2040s.

But immigrants will not raise the country's level in sport. They will replace the historic Canadians. France was already world champion in 98 (Soccer) and Olympic finalist (Basket) in 2000 with very few non-European immigrants.

I still have the feeling that Euro-Canadians will always remain over-represented in hockey, however, compared to their actual demographic weight. It is rather in Soccer/Basketball that the changes have taken place in Canada. With an increase in level for once.

Canada doesnt need to raise its level in hockey, it will maintain its dominance. The hockey training program is the best in the world and immigrant population will only help it.

And yes, immigrants has already helped canada become a lot stronger in soccer and basketball. Just like France would have become irrelevant without mbappe. Ah yes, 1998 french world cup, did you consider Henry as non-euro immigrant?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Canada doesnt need to raise its level in hockey, it will maintain its dominance. The hockey training program is the best in the world. And yes, immigrants has already helped canada become a lot stronger in soccer and basketball.

The decline of Canadian hockey is relative. Above all, the USA, Russia and Europe have considerably increased their levels and will continue to increase.

The international level of hockey 2025 has never been higher. And will be even more so in the following years.

Canada like Sweden and Finland cannot do better than currently. This is the ceiling level.