World Cup: Canada 4 Nations Tournament 2025 Roster Talk

He’ll get his shot sooner or later unless the NHL f***s it up again.
Correction, unless the IOC f***s it up again. They changed the terms of the previous Olympics deal that worked for NHL and NHLPA, which cost us 2018. The 2022 Winter Olympics were hosted in unappealing Beijing for a reason, every appealing location removed themselves from the process so they didn't have to deal with IOCs corruption.
 
Seth Jarvis since Bedard came in to the league is 0.86 PPG playing with Aho, Svechnikov, Necas.

Bedard is 0.89 playing with Terravainen, Donato, Bertuzzi.

Celebrini is 0.89.

If you're wanting to bring a young star to prepare the next generation, it isn't Jarvis.
23 year old Jarvis is light years ahead of 19 year old Bedard in terms of all around impact. He is emerging as one of the best two way wingers in the game.

It's great that Bedard can put up points, but he's been really ineffective at 5v5, and it's not like he'd be playing on the top PP unit on Canada. At 5v5, Jarvis has been the much more productive and effective player, and he's an excellent penalty killer.

There just wasn't a need for Canada to add a defensively liable scoring forward to a team like this.
 
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Meh hindsight is 20/20 it’s not like Binnington and Montembeault are bad goalies
Anything can happen in a short tournament, but Binnington, Montembeault and Hill are solidly below average. I would've dumped any one of them for Thompson.

McDavid and MacKinnon are pretty used to having suspect goaltending behind them though, so they know the drill.
 
23 year old Jarvis is light years ahead of 19 year old Bedard in terms of all around impact. He is emerging as one of the best two way wingers in the game.

It's great that Bedard can put up points, but he's been really ineffective at 5v5, and it's not like he'd be playing on the top PP unit on Canada. At 5v5, Jarvis has been the much more productive and effective player, and he's an excellent penalty killer.

There just wasn't a need for Canada to add a defensively liable scoring forward to a team like this.

I really like Jarvis, but Bedard is a better hockey player now and going forward.

Jarvis was tied for 67th in the NHL in scoring last year, and his defence doesn't make up for that. He's a solid player, but he has no business being on this team.
 
I really like Jarvis, but Bedard is a better hockey player now and going forward.

Jarvis was tied for 67th in the NHL in scoring last year, and his defence doesn't make up for that. He's a solid player, but he has no business being on this team.
You are wrong. On a team where Bedard won't get top 6 minutes, Jarvis is a much better option.

Not just that, but hes currently a better player. He plays all 200ft, hits, and is a clutch scorer. He'll open a few naysayer eyes over the next couple weeks.
 
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I really like Jarvis, but Bedard is a better hockey player now and going forward.
Jarvis is the far better 5v5 player and can kill penalties. It's not even close.

Bedard is better on the PP, but he's not likely a PP player on this team, so that's not even relevant.
Jarvis was tied for 67th in the NHL in scoring last year, and his defence doesn't make up for that. He's a solid player, but he has no business being on this team.
Jarvis plays in a defensive system and is still 8th among Canadians in goals (6th in goals per game), while being one of the most dangerous penalty killers in the league. He's a great fit on this roster.
 
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You are wrong. On a team where Bedard won't get top 6 minutes, Jarvis is a much better option.

Not just that, but hes currently a better player. He plays all 200ft, hits, and is a clutch scorer. He'll open a few naysayer eyes over the next couple weeks.

I can give him credit for being a 200 foot player but he's 3rd on his own team in scoring.

I have no problem with Jarvis, but Scheifele has outscored him by 25 points over the past year and a half. Suzuki has outscored him. Robert Thomas, Evan Bouchard, Dylan Strome, Matt Duchene, Verhaege.

Give him credit for being a solid defensive winger. HIs career high is 67 points.
 
I can give him credit for being a 200 foot player but he's 3rd on his own team in scoring.

I have no problem with Jarvis, but Scheifele has outscored him by 25 points over the past year and a half. Suzuki has outscored him. Robert Thomas, Evan Bouchard, Dylan Strome, Matt Duchene, Verhaege.

Give him credit for being a solid defensive winger. HIs career high is 67 points.

You can't have a Team Canada without a Rob Zamuner.
 
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Jarvis is the far better 5v5 player and can kill penalties. It's not even close.

Bedard is better on the PP, but he's not likely a PP player on this team, so that's not even relevant.

Jarvis plays in a defensive system and is still 8th among Canadians in goals (6th in goals per game), while being one of the most dangerous penalty killers in the league. He's a great fit on this roster.

Hard to say he's a better 5 on 5 player. He plays about 50% of his even strength minutes with Aho, who is no slouch.

Bedard plays with Teravainen (about 15% of the time) and tows around the carcasses of Foligno and Bertuzzi the rest of the time.

You can't have a Team Canada without a Rob Zamuner.

No doubt. God forbid we just take our best players.
 
No doubt. God forbid we just take our best players.

I don't know - there's usually a couple of all-around forwards in the bottom half of the lineup.

1998
Brind'Amour-Corson-Lindros
Shanahan-Gretzky-Yzerman
Nieuwendyk-Sakic-Fleury
Zamuner-Primeau-Linden
Recchi
Kariya (IR)

Pronger-Foote
MacInnis-Bourque
Stevens-Blake
Desjardins

Roy
Brodeur
Joseph

2002
Kariya-Lemieux-Yzerman
Gagne-Sakic-Iginla
Shanahan-Nieuwendyk-Fleury
Lindros-Nolan-Peca
Smyth

Pronger-MacInnis
Niedermayer-Foote
Jovanovski-Blake
Brewer

Brodeur
Joseph
Belfour

2006
Nash-Thornton-Bertuzzi
Gagne-Sakic-Iginla
Draper-Richards-Heatley
Smyth-Lecavalier-St.Louis
Doan

Redden-Foote
Pronger-Bouwmeester
Regher-Blake
McCabe

Brodeur
Luongo
Turco

2010
Staal-Crosby-Iginla
Morrow-Getzlaf-Perry
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley
Nash-Toews-Richards
Bergeron

Niedermayer-Pronger
Keith-Doughty
Weber-Boyle
Seabrook

Luongo
Brodeur
Fleury

2014
Kunitz-Crosby-Bergeron
Benn-Getzlaf-Perry
Marleau-Toews-Carter
Sharp-Duchene-Nash
St. Louis

Keith-Weber
Vlasic-Doughty
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Hamhuis

Price
Luongo
Smith
 
I don't know - there's usually a couple of all-around forwards in the bottom half of the lineup.

1998
Brind'Amour-Corson-Lindros
Shanahan-Gretzky-Yzerman
Nieuwendyk-Sakic-Fleury
Zamuner-Primeau-Linden
Recchi
Kariya (IR)

Pronger-Foote
MacInnis-Bourque
Stevens-Blake
Desjardins

Roy
Brodeur
Joseph

2002
Kariya-Lemieux-Yzerman
Gagne-Sakic-Iginla
Shanahan-Nieuwendyk-Fleury
Lindros-Nolan-Peca
Smyth

Pronger-MacInnis
Niedermayer-Foote
Jovanovski-Blake
Brewer

Brodeur
Joseph
Belfour

2006
Nash-Thornton-Bertuzzi
Gagne-Sakic-Iginla
Draper-Richards-Heatley
Smyth-Lecavalier-St.Louis
Doan

Redden-Foote
Pronger-Bouwmeester
Regher-Blake
McCabe

Brodeur
Luongo
Turco

2010
Staal-Crosby-Iginla
Morrow-Getzlaf-Perry
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley
Nash-Toews-Richards
Bergeron

Niedermayer-Pronger
Keith-Doughty
Weber-Boyle
Seabrook

Luongo
Brodeur
Fleury

2014
Kunitz-Crosby-Bergeron
Benn-Getzlaf-Perry
Marleau-Toews-Carter
Sharp-Duchene-Nash
St. Louis

Keith-Weber
Vlasic-Doughty
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Hamhuis

Price
Luongo
Smith

Draper, Peca, Zamuner.

Of course, they always do. What do those players bring to the table that a more talented player couldn't in a short tournament?

I keep going back to '87. Dale Hawerhuck was in the midst of 5 straight 100 point seasons. On a team with Gretzky and Lemieux, he was not going to be the "go to" on offence, so Keenan asked him to be defensively responsible and he played fantastically.
 
Of course, they always do. What do those players bring to the table that a more talented player couldn't in a short tournament?

I keep going back to '87. Dale Hawerhuck was in the midst of 5 straight 100 point seasons. On a team with Gretzky and Lemieux, he was not going to be the "go to" on offence, so Keenan asked him to be defensively responsible and he played fantastically.

Who would you pick if you couldn't pick Mark Scheifele?
 
Hard to say he's a better 5 on 5 player. He plays about 50% of his even strength minutes with Aho, who is no slouch.

Bedard plays with Teravainen (about 15% of the time) and tows around the carcasses of Foligno and Bertuzzi the rest of the time.
It really isn't. Bedard is producing at the same rate at as Foligno and Teravainen, and well below several other Hawks, while being a massive defensive liability.

5v5 p/60
Donato 2.32
Smith 1.93
Hall 1.88
Nazar 1.74
Bedard 1.69
Teravainen 1.68
Foligno 1.67
 
I despise the concept of selecting role players. That's why Canada is getting killed at the Juniors lately. It's literally a three game tournament. Bring your best hockey players. Period.



He was 18 though.

Not everyone can play top-6 minutes though. There are simply not enough minutes to go around. So the players who aren't going to be playing top-6 - like Seth Jarvis - need to be good enough players that they, with their line, can win ES matchups against the opponent's lower lines, contribute on the penalty kill, and be skilled enough that they can sub up in the lineup if someone gets injured or isn't performing up to snuff. You're thinking of Jarvis as a "role player" on Team Canada, when he's not. He's a good 200 foot winger who can contribute on either wing, on any line, at ES (and the PK) and with limited ice time.

In the estimation of the Canadian management team and coaching staff they presumably felt that Jarvis was better suited to do all of those things than, say, Scheifele.

I think of Jarvis more like a 2002 Simon Gagne than a 1998 Rob Zamuner. Gagne was a winger with similar attributes as Jarvis - a fast, 200-foot player who can complement any of the four lines, kill penalties and contribute offensively.

There is no question that guys like Zamuner ('98), Draper ('06) and Kunitz ('14) were poor picks. Jarvis doesn't fit into that category of player, in my opinio.
 
That's totally fair, but you would have to admit if you are bringing a young player to acclimate to the pressure as you expect them to lead in the future, both Celebrini and Bedard and way more likely to be those guys.
To me, they are too young and I am a BIG Jarvis fan so...
 
There is no question that guys like Zamuner ('98), Draper ('06) and Kunitz ('14) were poor picks. Jarvis doesn't fit into that category of player, in my opinio.

Draper is a bit of a special case.

He had played for Team Canada in 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2005, earning 2 golds and a silver over that timeframe.

In any event, you're right in that he wasn't one of Canada's best 20 forwards.

Ryan Smyth was also on the 2006 roster, after playing in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003.

I remember one of the outcomes of the post-1998 "Hockey Summit" was to reward players for participating in regular European-based World Championships to encourage players to better familiarize themselves with the international game.

I'm not sure there's the same kind of urgency anymore as most of Canada's players these days will take a turn at the WCs if they miss the playoffs.

The fact that the 2006 team flamed out spectacularly was a bit of a lesson learned for picking players for non-hockey reasons (e.g. Bertuzzi promised a spot by Gretzky, picking guys who had represented Canada frequently, etc.).

Not to mention the fact that players who represented Canada THAT often at the senior level were playing for uncompetitive teams in the NHL and maybe they had some role to play in that.
 
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Who would you pick if you couldn't pick Mark Scheifele?

I think Cellebrini, Bedard, Thomas, Suzuki could bring more to the table than Jarvis, Cirelli or Hagel.

It really isn't. Bedard is producing at the same rate at as Foligno and Teravainen, and well below several other Hawks, while being a massive defensive liability.

5v5 p/60
Donato 2.32
Smith 1.93
Hall 1.88
Nazar 1.74
Bedard 1.69
Teravainen 1.68
Foligno 1.67

So you think Foligno is a comparable player?

Bedard is literally the only player on his team, carrying scrubs while Jarvis plays with Aho.
 
I think Celebrini, Bedard, Thomas, Suzuki could bring more to the table than Jarvis, Cirelli or Hagel.

To be honest, I'd take the other three guys over Bedard and I agree that there might be a case to be made there.

Didn't Robert Thomas have a slow start, kind of like Zach Hyman or Tage Thompson?

The other side of the coin is picking underperforming guys too early (like in 2006) based on their past track records and them just not showing up while the hottest guys in the league sit in the press box or on the shelf.
 
Not everyone can play top-6 minutes though. There are simply not enough minutes to go around. So the players who aren't going to be playing top-6 - like Seth Jarvis - need to be good enough players that they, with their line, can win ES matchups against the opponent's lower lines, contribute on the penalty kill, and be skilled enough that they can sub up in the lineup if someone gets injured or isn't performing up to snuff. You're thinking of Jarvis as a "role player" on Team Canada, when he's not. He's a good 200 foot winger who can contribute on either wing, on any line, at ES (and the PK) and with limited ice time.

In the estimation of the Canadian management team and coaching staff they presumably felt that Jarvis was better suited to do all of those things than, say, Scheifele.

I think of Jarvis more like a 2002 Simon Gagne than a 1998 Rob Zamuner. Gagne was a winger with similar attributes as Jarvis - a fast, 200-foot player who can complement any of the four lines, kill penalties and contribute offensively.

There is no question that guys like Zamuner ('98), Draper ('06) and Kunitz ('14) were poor picks. Jarvis doesn't fit into that category of player, in my opinio.

Scheifele seems to win his match ups fine against other team's top lines and can certainly sub in up the line up, wouldn't you agree?

Why take a less talented player?

Once again, team Canada out thinks itself.
 
So you think Foligno is a comparable player?

Bedard is literally the only player on his team, carrying scrubs
If he is "literally the only player on his team", why are other Hawks outscoring him at 5v5?

If Bedard were as good as you seem to think, he should be lapping scrubs like Foligno, right?
while Jarvis plays with Aho.
At 5v5
Jarvis with Aho: 1.90 p/60 (347 mins)
Jarvis w/o Aho: 1.87 p/60 (294 mins)
 

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