Speculation: Can Las Vegas pick Kovalchuk?

[Tretyak 20]

The theoretical reason to do this is to not lose any current team players to the expansion draft, because having Kovy available would be irresistible bait.

This, of course, assumes that a signed Kovalchuk is actually of less value to the Devils than their otherwise best exposed expansion-eligible player. Basically, if Kovy was in a "I want to come back to the NHL but I won't play for the Devils, so they best sign me then move me" snit. And even then only if his trade value was less than the value of the player they risk losing to expansion (because if it was greater they'd trade him for a player better than the player they lose to expansion)

So yeah, a lot of "if"s have to align for this to make sense. But I would assume that is what the OP is assuming, that they do.

Only thing I could really see happening is if Kovy decided he wants to play for LV and they want to sign him. Then he agrees to sign with NJ and we expose him.

Thing is, though, we really don't have anybody good we have to expose, so it doesn't benefit us much. Maybe if LV agreed to then trade us something like a 2nd for Helgeson that would make it worthwhile.

 

[DeltaSwede]

Could they select players in situations like Nathan Horton, Marc Savard or Chris Pronger?

 

[Starat327]

Could they select players in situations like Nathan Horton, Marc Savard or Chris Pronger?

I believe there is a 'X games played in the last 3 years' requirement.

 

[DeltaSwede]

I believe there is a 'X games played in the last 3 years' requirement.

That would make a lot of sense, thanks.

 

[Flair Hay]

This reminds me of how ****** it is teams are getting to wiggle out of these deals they signed years ago.

 

[tmg]

I believe there is a 'X games played in the last 3 years' requirement.

The minimum games requirements dictate the types and numbers of players the clubs are obligated to expose. Teams have to expose 1 D and 2 F with at least 40 GP the preceding season or 70+ the preceding two seasons.

And even at that, there is an exception for players with career-threatening injuries such that those players cannot be used to reach minimum player exposure requirements. You can't make your only exposed defenseman one that missed the last 2/3rds of last year injured or is unlikely to play again even if he played a full slate the year before.

And the league can, at their discretion, rule injured (60 consecutive missed and/or facoing career-threatening injury) players exempt from selection.

 

[uncleben]

but we do, till he's 35

no his rights to trade him, no

 

[Starat327]

The minimum games requirements dictate the types and numbers of players the clubs are obligated to expose. Teams have to expose 1 D and 2 F with at least 40 GP the preceding season or 70+ the preceding two seasons.

And even at that, there is an exception for players with career-threatening injuries such that those players cannot be used to reach minimum player exposure requirements. You can't make your only exposed defenseman one that missed the last 2/3rds of last year injured or is unlikely to play again even if he played a full slate the year before.

And the league can, at their discretion, rule injured (60 consecutive missed and/or facoing career-threatening injury) players exempt from selection.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Djp]

They could "trade" that permission to Vegas in exchange for taking a specific player in the draft instead of whoever they could normally take.

Vagas: We want ABC player
NJD: You can talk to Kovy if you take XYZ player instead
Vegas: Sold (Sings Kovy and takes XYZ player)

Sure this could happen. But he has to get league wide approval to return.

If not, then why not have a team with heavy veterans have them retire before the draft, then have them change their mind? It would also be away for owners to get out of bad contracts like the Kingsand brown. Brown retires, then returns on new contract terms.

 

[Goptor]

I believe the situation is this:

Kovalchuk is not considered a free agent - Unrestricted, Restricted, or any other type. He is officially listed on the "Voluntarily Retired" list with the NHL. This list is directly with the NHL and not under any specific team list.
The Devils can transfer his name off of the Voluntarily Retired list to their Reserve list any time after 1 year has passed from signing the retirement papers. This is why they technically don't hold his right yet have the first choice for signing him. Kovalchuk can also become an Unrestricted Free Agent if his 35th birthday has passed.

He is not property of the Devils or any other team while on the Voluntarily Retired list so he wont be eligible to be 'picked' from NJ. He also does not have the rights of a free agent until April 15, 2018 when he turns 35.

I assume the NHL did not write in provisions for the voluntarily retired list for expansion because its an obscure clause that basically only concerns Kovalchuk and the NHL has basically treated Kovalchuk like he doesn't exist since the retirement.

 

[Ola]

They could "trade" that permission to Vegas in exchange for taking a specific player in the draft instead of whoever they could normally take.

Vagas: We want ABC player
NJD: You can talk to Kovy if you take XYZ player instead
Vegas: Sold (Sings Kovy and takes XYZ player)

At the same time, LV can talk and sign any free agent left unprotected. Are we sure this don't apply to all a too?

Think it's irrelevant, because NJ would probably gladly set up a deal where LV gets Kova as the selectee in the draft from NJ (with that secured, they could probably pick up some good players about to get exposed from other teams through trades). But I don't quite get why LV couldn't get Kova from NJ like any other Free Agent.

 

[The Nuge]

but we do, till he's 35

No. Having first refusal for him to return isn't the same thing as having his rights

 

[Eric Sachs]

A better way to put it is NJ holds rights to Kovy, however those rights are different then the rights we typically think of when discussing unsigned players.

Kovy is not on NJ's Reserve List. And the team probably cannot trade any rights they hold to Kovy right now even if they wanted to.

Do we know what exactly those rights are? They haven't been defined as far as I know and reading through the NHL's constitution and by-laws is fairly hard given the copies we have.

Is it a 'right of first refusal' that is similar to RFAs where NJ can match a contract that Kovalchuk signs with any team? Do they simply have an exclusive negotiating window where they can try to come to terms with Kovalchuk but if they fail to do so, he can sign wherever he pleases?

Those two 'rights of first refusal' are drastically different and, well, have implications on whether NJ can even pull off a deal like this.

 

[dechire]

Do we know what exactly those rights are? They haven't been defined as far as I know and reading through the NHL's constitution and by-laws is fairly hard given the copies we have.

Is it a 'right of first refusal' that is similar to RFAs where NJ can match a contract that Kovalchuk signs with any team? Do they simply have an exclusive negotiating window where they can try to come to terms with Kovalchuk but if they fail to do so, he can sign wherever he pleases?

Those two 'rights of first refusal' are drastically different and, well, have implications on whether NJ can even pull off a deal like this.

Iff he gets approval from all 30 teams. Otherwise no.

 

[Roof Daddy]

They could "trade" that permission to Vegas in exchange for taking a specific player in the draft instead of whoever they could normally take.

Vagas: We want ABC player
NJD: You can talk to Kovy if you take XYZ player instead
Vegas: Sold (Sings Kovy and takes XYZ player)

It's certainly an interesting idea. I don't know how the process of his return unfolds, but if all 30 teams have to vote on his return, I'd have to think Bettman would lean pretty hard on the owners to vote yes. It's clear with the rules to the expansion draft and the 48 hour window for early free agency that he wants Vegas to be competitive right away.

Would be pretty cool to see Kovy back.

 

[Deen]

So they can pick Datsyuk though?

 

[NotYou]

Kinda. I think you neglected that Kovy AND NJ have to decide that he's coming back. Makes no sense for the devils to sign him just to leave him exposed for vegas

 

[Eric Sachs]

Iff he gets approval from all 30 teams. Otherwise no.

There are so many specific conditions on Kovalchuk's return that a blanket statement like this is flat out wrong. As per the by-laws, there is at least mechanism of return that doesn't require approval from all 30 teams.

 

[Leafs87]

Kovalchuck needs approval from all 30 teams to return to the NHL until he reaches a certain age. I can't recall off the top of my head what that age is but I think it was 36/37

 

[Zippy316]

Kovalchuk isn't Devils property. He is a retired UFA.

If he was to sign a contract with New Jersey before the draft, and the Devils then left him unprotected for some reason, then I suppose they could. That scenario doesn't make any sense, though.

He basically is though. Until he turns 35, he can only sign for the Devils unless we let him sign with someone else. He needs our permission to go to any other team

Not this argument again.

The language on Kovalchuk's situation is so unique and vague that if he wants to come back before the specified age, I have a feeling the NHL will address the situation when it comes around. It will be a unique case like Mike Richards was. In my opinion, trying to figure out what exactly his status is makes little sense.

That being said, this is a very interesting idea by the OP. If the league deems Kovalchuk still Devils property, then the Devils would likely leave him unprotected. Looking at what the Devils will likely expose, it might be in Las Vegas' best interest to pick Kovalchuk and hope they can bring him back before he becomes a UFA by the league's rules. Could also be a nice bargaining chip for the Devils as well as there will likely be a lot of backroom deals leading up to the expansion draft.

 

[Eric Sachs]

Kovalchuck needs approval from all 30 teams to return to the NHL until he reaches a certain age. I can't recall off the top of my head what that age is but I think it was 36/37

Again, it's not this straightforward.

There are multiple mechanisms for Kovy to return to the NHL and not all of them require all 30 teams to sign off. Heck, we don't even likely know of all the possible scenarios.

 

[Leafs87]

Again, it's not this straightforward.

There are multiple mechanisms for Kovy to return to the NHL and not all of them require all 30 teams to sign off. Heck, we don't even likely know of all the possible scenarios.

Realistically I agree. If Kovy wanted to come back especially to a expansion team Bettman will pull some strings and make it happen

 

[Zippy316]

Kinda. I think you neglected that Kovy AND NJ have to decide that he's coming back. Makes no sense for the devils to sign him just to leave him exposed for vegas

It could if it was agreed upon before hand.

Maybe the Devils want to keep another player and use Kovalchuk as a bargaining chip for that.

 

[mouser]

Do we know what exactly those rights are? They haven't been defined as far as I know and reading through the NHL's constitution and by-laws is fairly hard given the copies we have.

Is it a 'right of first refusal' that is similar to RFAs where NJ can match a contract that Kovalchuk signs with any team? Do they simply have an exclusive negotiating window where they can try to come to terms with Kovalchuk but if they fail to do so, he can sign wherever he pleases?

Those two 'rights of first refusal' are drastically different and, well, have implications on whether NJ can even pull off a deal like this.

Agreed the ByLaws language is not completely clear on all of the mechanics. Also the rights language was written back in the days when teams could ask for specific compensation (e.g. Brendan Shanahan/Scott Stevens) rather then the current RFA draft pick compensation system. So some of the "rights" scenarios they envisioned may no longer apply.

There is probably a lot of old (emphasis on old) case precedent on actual players retiring and returning or returning to amateur status under the ByLaw rules. Likely dating back to the WHA days or earlier. Maybe those precedent cases cover everything still, or maybe newer rules have made them obsolete and a new special agreement between the NHL and PA would be required to let Kovy return under some of the scenarios.

 

[NotYou]

It could if it was agreed upon before hand.

Maybe the Devils want to keep another player and use Kovalchuk as a bargaining chip for that.

Interesting idea. I like it!