Value of: Can anyone fix the Leafs defense without leaving the team worse than it is?

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The first thing to do is for Leafs fan, and other fans of other teams is to stop thinking the Leafs are so desperate to acquire a "1 D" via trade. Very likely ain't going happen.
And how many true #1s" are there? Maybe 20 in the league. Leafs can wait to get one maybe via UFA in the future, but certainly are trading one of their young core to acquire one now.

IMO the Leafs will be upgrade their defence by acquiring some players that can't be protected as a teams top three Dmen in the draft. Leafs really only protect 3 forwards and can protect 5 Dmen. Leafs have prospects and young NHLers on the Leafs which do not need draft protection which other teams might find desirable. Isles, Wild and Ducks are teams that might be a good fit for trade.

And some teams have cap issues and they might want to get rid of a competent Dman without taking money back. Leafs are in a position to take on short term cap issues, without gutting their team.

I just understand why the Leafs especially have to "hit home runs" on this site by so many hockey fans Gotta trade for OEL or Doughty. Think singles or maybe even doubles, in the next few years before the Leafs have to make a big splash.

 

[YP44]

Muzzin for Kapanen + 2018 pick loaded with conditions from both sides.

 

[tempest2i]

It took trading Taylor Hall to get a good Dman on a good contract coming back the other way.

The price for blueliners always seems to be highest for teams that desperately need defenders.

 

[ManofSteel55]

What are some realistic trades the Leafs could make this summer that doesn't leave the team worse while addressing the defense. Keep in mind the middle is fine, and they have prospects who can fill in the bottom pairing.

This means they need help at the top, but can that be done? Interested to hear other fans opinions instead of the usual JVR to your team.

The Oilers-Devils trade should give you a good idea at what you will need to pay to "fix the top" of your defense. Most of the time, those types of players just aren't available, and when they are, they command a premium.

Even if a team decides that they are going to have to sell a "top" pair defenseman (ie, Vatanen in Anaheim), it is likely going to cost a ton to get that player, as there are a number of teams out there that you will be bidding against.

Honestly, it will probably cost a piece that the Leafs simply don't want any part in discussing moving right now (Marner, Nylander, etc).

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

I don't understand why alot of Leafs are so impatient. Why not just relax a bit, sit back and see who shakes loose?

Is it because the Leafs are vying for a PO spot that is making fans chomp at the bit to fix everything right away?

IMO, Leafs can afford to be patient and not force the issue. More times than not forcing the issue leads to something you'll eventually regret at some point down the line.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Alright so what are some moves people think are reasonable.

And no reasonable is not one of the big 3 for marginal D.

Well, you aren't going to get the d-man that you are after without one of them, based on recent history.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

(...) You need a top 10-15D to make the playoffs, but after that, things get tight anyways so you need good offense.

The Leafs are 21st...

 

[Volica]

So, the premise of not giving up anything to address the defence, how does one go about that?

Short answer, you can't.

1D's normally don't make it to FA, the last one that did was probably Suter. Don't see that changing anytime soon either, teams protect these guys by the time they're 23... they usually go on to be lifers. Picking someone like Alzner up in FA might be a good move; that along with some veteran presence like Oduya would probably help.

Have to draft them, hope they develop, or make your 1 for 1 swaps. Canes make sense as a team with a plethora of young Dmen with high upside. If I'm Lou, and I hear that one of their big guns shakes lose I'm jumping on it ASAP. The Canes love their Finns/Swedes, so a swap around Faulk and Nylander makes some good sense for Toronto. Another 3 years with a reasonable cap hit. Righty, who can slot beside Rielly as Toronto's all-purpose top pair, first PP unit... Dunno.

There was some rumblings about RNH and Faulk. If I'm TO, I jump in on that asap and try and beat that deal.

 

[RickyLafleur]

You could get Carlson from the caps for a strategic package since they're facing a cap crunch and he's a UFA in a year and they have a solid RD lineup without him.

Something like Orpik + Carlson for Zaitsev (cheap ED exempt placeholder) and other stuff.

Lol what? Why is washington adding

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Leafs don't need a true #1 d-man. A guy like Alzner will do just fine with us.

Gardiner Zaitsev
Rielly Marchenko
Alzner Carrick
Marincin Dermott
Nielsen

Alzner is seeking 6x6 so you're going to put a $6 million D man on the 3rd pairing.

 

[crowi]

You won't get any fix to your D for basically nothing.
You could get lucky trading for some project and it ends up paying out, but that's it.

 

[um]

You won't get any fix to your D for basically nothing.
You could get lucky trading for some project and it ends up paying out, but that's it.

worked for the Caps when we signed Niskanen and Orpik.

 

[crowi]

worked for the Caps when we signed Niskanen and Orpik.

partly.

 

[um]

Lol what? Why is washington adding

Orpik is more of a dump with his cap.

its not that bad of a basis for a trade, Caps basically save around 8M in Cap to bring back Oshie + Alzner/Shattenkirk.

 

[um]

partly.

fully.

 

[crowi]

Orpik is more of a dump with his cap.

You just said "worked for Caps when they signed Orpik and Niskanen" and now you are saying Orpik is a cap dumb.
Make up your mind.
There's no cheap dinners in this league.

 

[YP44]

worked for the Caps when we signed Niskanen and Orpik.

at the price of now likely losing Alzner and who knows what Orlov will want.

It still has not been enough in Washington. This could be the last kick at the can before a miny retool is needed there.

 

[34]

The Maple Leafs are already way ahead of schedule from where everyone expected them to be. They have the youngest and best up and coming forwards in the NHL, bar none. Give the offence a few years to mature and it will be very very potent.

As far as the D goes, it is very obvious that is stinks. Being in the position they are in right now, so far ahead of schedule, Lou and Shanny are in no rush to to try to do a band aid fix with the D. It makes no sense to throw away young elite players like Nylander, Marner and Matthews. Those three are untouchable.

The team will take its time to draft and develop. Lou has made it very crystal clear that they are going to stay the coarse.

 

[Captain97]

Leafs will be fine.

Here are the teams that the Leafs are within 0.15 GA/GP: Nashville, Tampa, Pittsburgh. Would you say any of those teams are terrible defensively?

They can't sacrifice offense for defense. Just be patient, if they can challenge for playoffs after finishing 30th, they are very close to being a contender. Experience for the rookies, more time played in the system and one guy similar to Zaitsev/Gardiner will be more than adequate.

Pittsburgh is a Cup favourite in everyone's mind and they allow 2.75 GA/G...Hint: they weren't desperate for more D, they went after Kessel. Why? Because offense is just as important to win the Cup than defense.

Even the LA kings that won the cup in 2012, won because their offense lit up in the playoffs after being **** in the regular season. You need a top 10-15D to make the playoffs, but after that, things get tight anyways so you need good offense.

All of those teams (aside from Nashville and Nashville is meh) are terrible on defence

 

[HockeyThoughts]

To aquire top-pairing defencemen via trades will cost a lot, unless you get someone who has started to regress, at which case it will only be a temporary solution anyway.

Via free agency you'll usually have to offer him a salary at least 20% over the players real value.

In either case, getting top-2 D:s will cost a lot, either through money or prospects/young players/draft picks.

If I were Toronto, I would give up the upcoming two first rounders (2017 & 2018) + the forward prospects needed to land a top-2 Dman under the age of 27, preferbly right-handed.

Those 1st rounders will probably be around 25th anyway, especially if you add that important piece at the back-end.


Or you offer less for a 30+ player, as a stop-gap.

Ideas.

1st 2017, 1st 2018, Nielsen & Kapanen.

For.

Justin Faulk.

---------------------------------------

What world do you live in where Justin Faulk is worth essentially 3 1st round picks and an early 3rd pick (who is so far way outperforming his draft status)?

 

[Pi]

That defense is not good

The D the Pens ran last year and the one currently isn't good either but you can score at will. Defense doesn't win championships, good teams which have a little bit of everything win championships.

 

[um]

You just said "worked for Caps when they signed Orpik and Niskanen" and now you are saying Orpik is a cap dumb.
Make up your mind.
There's no cheap dinners in this league.

at the price of now likely losing Alzner and who knows what Orlov will want.

It still has not been enough in Washington. This could be the last kick at the can before a miny retool is needed there.

We weren't going for a long term build, we were trying to win with Ovechkin and Backstrom in their primes. We got exactly what we've needed out of Niskanen and Orpik. Orpiks contract is a problem when guys like Kuznetsov and Oshie fall onto your laps.

 

[613Leafer]

Leafs could easily upgrade their blueline without moving a core piece. Look at what guys like Methot, Leddy, Boychuk, Garrison, Klein, etc were traded for. Look at what guys like Demers, Stralman, Goligoski, etc signed for in free agency.

Getting a #1 guy isn't realistic. But adding a #2-3 guy for non-1st round picks and/or B prospects and/or decent but non-core NHL pieces isn't completely out of the question. It's happened before, so why not again.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If I were Toronto, I would give up the upcoming two first rounders (2017 & 2018) + the forward prospects needed to land a top-2 Dman under the age of 27, preferbly right-handed.

Those 1st rounders will probably be around 25th anyway, especially if you add that important piece at the back-end.

If the reason you want to give up two 1st rounders is because they'll be late 1st round, so not worth as much, then why would a team want to give up a top 2 D for them in a package?

Ideas.

1st 2017, 1st 2018, Nielsen & Kapanen.

For.

Justin Faulk.

Ignoring value, I don't see Faulk as a good match for Toronto.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Alzner this year
wait out Carlson and Vlasic next.

Hope Nielson, Dermott and Valiev can pan something out
Cut someone now to sign Stephen Desrocher.