Can anybody explain to me the logic behind the Chris Pronger trade?

[Micklebot]

Shedding crappy players like Martin Erat and replacing them with top 50 prospects like Max Domi will make them better. With a lot of cheap ELC players and few UFAs worth big dollars, you need to acquire Pronger in order to avoid trading for crappy, overpaid players.

The Coyotes did just that, and will easily hit the floor, even without the Pronger contract. It's insurance and provides flexibility.

So now we're getting into tanking, another trend that isn't good for the league.

Look, I don't think that Arz or Phi should be punished for this, but it's clearly not what you want happening around the league. It's not healthy for the league as a whole to have teams actively becoming worse. It's one thing to trade off players for futures, it's a complete other to artificially inflate your cap hit so you can avoid icing a competitive roster. My guess is they probably took on this contract so they could ice a roster that flirts with the floor and not worry about accidentally dipping below it should the right trade come up.

Nothing about this situation is good for the league as a whole. It is good for Phi, and good for Arz, but the league as a whole suffers with this kind of transaction. It may not have a big affect, but it's a clear policy gap being taken advantage of.

 

[XX]

So now we're getting into tanking, another trend that isn't good for the league.

Tanking? The Coyotes were the 2nd worst team in the league last year due to injury. Every step taken so far has been an improvement. The Coyotes will be above the floor, even without the Pronger contract. What's the big deal?

 

[Micklebot]

Tanking? The Coyotes were the 2nd worst team in the league last year due to injury. Every step taken so far has been an improvement. The Coyotes will be above the floor, even without the Pronger contract. What's the big deal?

Again, I've got no problem with Arz here. My problem is with the situation. Pronger's contract shouldn't be involved in any trades; the guy is for all intents and purposes retired. It's a problem with the system, and should be addressed.

It is either cap circumvention by Arz, or by Phi, or by both, because the player in question will never play and his contract is included in the trade for cap purposes alone. It can't possibly be any more obvious.

The issue is that Phi is only trying to circumvent the cap because of how stupidly the leauge treats contracts of players who are injured and will never be medically cleared. Arz may or may not be trying to artificially raise their cap hit to avoid the floor; if they trade off all their high priced assets at the deadline and that pronger contract is the sole thing keeping them above the floor, are you still going to be singing the same song? It may not be needed now, but that artificial increase of their cap hit gives them flexibility to go below what the otherwise could down the road.

Anyways, it is what it is, a situation that never should have occured. Arz certainly shouldn't get an advantageous deal because the take on a player who is essentially retired because of injury. It's a sketchy move no matter how you look at it, and not a positive for the league as a whole. But it's not either teams fault, or Prongers. It's a league (and player's association) issue that should be fixed in the CBA.

 

[Analyst365]

Because just having Chris Pronger in your press box looming over the opposition is worth at least 4 points a season and could get you into the playoffs.

 

[Flyerfan52]

I wonder if Arizona is going to retire Pronger's number?

Why not.
They retired Dale Hawerchuk & Thomas Steen's.
@ least Chris Pronger is technically on their roster.

 

[XX]

The issue is that Phi is only trying to circumvent the cap because of how stupidly the leauge treats contracts of players who are injured and will never be medically cleared.

Pronger's contract and LTIR function exactly how the league intended them to. The player can't be bought out, so his choices are to retire and forego his salary, or not retire, stay on LTIR, and get his money. The team and the player aren't monetarily punished for injuries that are out of their control.

Arz may or may not be trying to artificially raise their cap hit to avoid the floor; if they trade off all their high priced assets at the deadline and that pronger contract is the sole thing keeping them above the floor, are you still going to be singing the same song? It may not be needed now, but that artificial increase of their cap hit gives them flexibility to go below what the otherwise could down the road.

Arizona can just retain on UFAs to be, like Doan, so it's not likely to ever be an issue with prorated salaries. Even if it was, I can't say I care a whole lot about a team clearly out of the playoffs that spent the majority of the year above the floor suddenly finding themselves below it because they had to gut their team.

Why not.
They retired Dale Hawerchuk & Thomas Steen's.
@ least Chris Pronger is technically on their roster.

Yeah, how dare Arizona honor Jets greats when there's no other place for them to be honored at the time. Classless.

 

[mja]

Again, I've got no problem with Arz here. My problem is with the situation. Pronger's contract shouldn't be involved in any trades; the guy is for all intents and purposes retired. It's a problem with the system, and should be addressed.

Yes, good start.

1It is either cap circumvention by Arz, or by Phi, or by both, because the player in question will never play and his contract is included in the trade for cap purposes alone. It can't possibly be any more obvious.

IT. IS. NOT. CAP. CIRCUMVENTION.

Whether or not a player will actually play has nothing to do with cap circumvention. He's not playing because he's legitimately injured, which is what LTIR is for. His contract is still a valid one that counts for cap purposes and can indeed be traded regardless of whether or not he'll ever play again. This is cap MANAGEMENT. Not CIRCUMVENTION. Cap circumvention is against the rules! This is not against the rules!

The issue is that Phi is only trying to circumvent the cap because of how stupidly the leauge treats contracts of players who are injured and will never be medically cleared. Arz may or may not be trying to artificially raise their cap hit to avoid the floor; if they trade off all their high priced assets at the deadline and that pronger contract is the sole thing keeping them above the floor, are you still going to be singing the same song? It may not be needed now, but that artificial increase of their cap hit gives them flexibility to go below what the otherwise could down the road.

Anyways, it is what it is, a situation that never should have occured. Arz certainly shouldn't get an advantageous deal because the take on a player who is essentially retired because of injury. It's a sketchy move no matter how you look at it, and not a positive for the league as a whole. But it's not either teams fault, or Prongers. It's a league (and player's association) issue that should be fixed in the CBA.

1. Can we please stop throwing around the word circumvention when discussing things that aren't actually circumvention?

2. Yes, there needs to be some kind of mechanism in the next CBA that accounts for the fact that at any time any player can receive a career-ending injury, and that neither the team nor the player should be punished for this. The team should receive full cap relief, the players should be allowed to collect the rest of the money owed to him on his contract but also be able to move onto new opportunities.

 

[Lacaar]

I honestly don't see why a team should have to be punished for players that have been injured to the point they can't play anymore.

I guess it would turn into an insurance claim type fiasco.
Hossa will come down with inoperable gingivitis and go on LTIR or something haha

 

[Stranger Danger]

The Flyers are barely affected on this, I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

Because some people, no matter how much of a reach, need too villify the Flyers. Embrace it, I have

 

[Voight]

Boston just did the same thing with Savard's contract, so why bring up only Snider and not Jacobs?

Prongers contract was 35 plus so by he not retiring the Flyers were free of the 4.9 million cap hit the last few seasons. Which is complete BS. I would bet a million dollars he would've "officially retired" if his contract wasn't so onerous. It was also one of the first huge front loaded deals too.

 

[XX]

Prongers contract was 35 plus so by he not retiring the Flyers were free of the 4.9 million cap hit the last few seasons. Which is complete BS. I would bet a million dollars he would've "officially retired" if his contract wasn't so onerous. It was also one of the first huge front loaded deals too.

"By not retiring and giving up his guaranteed money after career ending injuries, Chris Pronger wronged me."

 

[Classicnamesup]

It must be depressing to be a Yotes fan and see them going out of their way to not ice a real team, taking on bad contracts to avoid even having to pay the floor.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It must be depressing to be a Yotes fan and see them going out of their way to not ice a real team, taking on bad contracts to avoid even having to pay the floor.

Their fans are more worried about just keeping the team so they have better things to worry about in that context.

 

[Tripod]

It must be depressing to be a Yotes fan and see them going out of their way to not ice a real team, taking on bad contracts to avoid even having to pay the floor.

Or you could read the whole page and see how they will be above the cap floor....even if they didn't add Pronger.

It's so funny to hear people complain that Pronger has not retired and forfeit money that is owed to him.

 

[mja]

Prongers contract was 35 plus so by he not retiring the Flyers were free of the 4.9 million cap hit the last few seasons. Which is complete BS. I would bet a million dollars he would've "officially retired" if his contract wasn't so onerous. It was also one of the first huge front loaded deals too.

You'd be a million dollars poorer. Retiring after 2011-2012 means Pronger would have forfeited 17.7 million dollars. Pronger didn't put off retirement just out of kindness to the Flyers.

Also, the Flyers weren't free from his cap hit the last few seasons. It was on the books every summer, limiting what they could do in free agency. And the cap hit wasn't wiped out in the regular season, the team was just allowed to then exceed the cap by the amount of his hit to replace him. Because of how LTIR works, the Flyers couldn't bank cap space the way most other teams could, limiting what they were able to do at the trade deadline.

You just irrationally want the Flyers punished, for what I'm not sure. Sadly, you've gotten your wish, as they lost their # 1 defenseman.