Proposal: Calgary - NYR

[Skobel24]

Klein would fit well, but I'd pass for now. Let's see how the defense plays under the new coach before making any major changes.

Edit: Actually, I'd pass entirely. As someone mentioned, the Flames would need to opt to protect 8 skaters if they took Klein, which means they'd lose a top 6 forward.

 

[Skobel24]

I see stepan being traded for RD, preferably expansion exempt, like Pesce +

That could make Klein available since AV will be made to stuff it and accept McIlrath, and most likely we have to keep Girardi + his NMC throughout the season.

If KK moved, what does he command?
Me thinks EDM wants cheap RD, and can use Lindberg + Fast as middle sixers, and I see all three get Oilers 2018 1st. That is more than only Klein, but serves NY with excess Fs.

So, would need to be significant young D, pref but not required RD, as core piece, who adds depends on how good that piece is. Otherwise better deal than the above on picks to NY,

If Marc Staal waives, would you take him, his NMC, Klein, add Zuc,
what kind of package do you offer?

Hamilton, Rasmus Andersson, 1st and ________________________

Flames aren't taking Staal.

 

[bernmeister]

Flames aren't taking Staal.

fine, someone asked, there was no reply and I expected it was an automatic no unless there was overpayment, hence Zuc.

In any case, not seeing a good match anyway.

...

fixed it for you.

not so much

There really is no logic behind your belief Stepan will be traded

HUGE logic. Not my fault if you ignore it.

McD + gets Trouba +, Trouba gets ELC Reinhart from Sabes
Cs would be Reinhart, Zib, Hayes, Miller, Jooris, Zib likely to 1RW.

ample time to move Stepan, re-purpose his 6.5 per

for Pesce.

logical also.
Canes can afford Pesce Murphy + greater picks for Stepan + lesser picks.
Could they use Stepan? Yes.
fully logical

KK could move but why? we need RHD.

sell KK high replace w/younger

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

I see stepan being traded for RD, preferably expansion exempt, like Pesce +

That could make Klein available since AV will be made to stuff it and accept McIlrath, and most likely we have to keep Girardi + his NMC throughout the season.

If KK moved, what does he command?
Me thinks EDM wants cheap RD, and can use Lindberg + Fast as middle sixers, and I see all three get Oilers 2018 1st. That is more than only Klein, but serves NY with excess Fs.

So, would need to be significant young D, pref but not required RD, as core piece, who adds depends on how good that piece is. Otherwise better deal than the above on picks to NY,

If Marc Staal waives, would you take him, his NMC, Klein, add Zuc,
what kind of package do you offer?

Hamilton, Rasmus Andersson, 1st and ________________________

Awful for Calgary and makes no sense for them whatsoever.

There's no interest in Marc Staal and negative value with his current contract. Klein is ok, but I'd rather have Hamilton then him and Zuc while he's very good isn't going to get you Calgary's first and Andersson.

 

[Savant]

You'll never convince bern on the Stepan thing. He's truly delusional and stuck in his ways when it comes to that topic, which is unfortunate for the sane Rangers fans on this site.

I can't wait to see how ridiculous his proposals get once Step earns his NMC next summer...

Well Bern's logic that the Rangers want to move Stepan before his NMC kicks in certainly isn't far fetched. The problem is replacing him equivalently, which is especially difficult now that Brassard was dealt. It wouldn't shock me if Stepan was moved but I have no idea how they could replace at center.

 

[vipernsx]

Now, I'm not particularly sure of the basis for the deal, but is there any way that we could get Klein onto Calgary?

He'd really fit the type of team we are building, and a pairing set up of

Gio - Klein
Brodie - Hamilton

Would be well worth the cost. Excellent shut down set up.

Name the price!!

Fine but it's steep!

You can have Klein for the pair of prospects, Kylington and Andersson, after gaining Jokipakka and Morrison, you can spare them.

...oh and part of the cost is you have to take Girardi too. As a thank you, we'll take back Wideman.

 

[Homesick]

What? McDonagh doesn't even get you Bennett.

A 27 year old #1 defenseman gets you more than Sam Bennett

 

[Homesick]

I see stepan being traded for RD, preferably expansion exempt, like Pesce +

That could make Klein available since AV will be made to stuff it and accept McIlrath, and most likely we have to keep Girardi + his NMC throughout the season.

If KK moved, what does he command?
Me thinks EDM wants cheap RD, and can use Lindberg + Fast as middle sixers, and I see all three get Oilers 2018 1st. That is more than only Klein, but serves NY with excess Fs.

So, would need to be significant young D, pref but not required RD, as core piece, who adds depends on how good that piece is. Otherwise better deal than the above on picks to NY,

If Marc Staal waives, would you take him, his NMC, Klein, add Zuc,
what kind of package do you offer?

Hamilton, Rasmus Andersson, 1st and ________________________

So Fast, Lindberg, and Klein for the Oilers 2018 1st? Sure

 

[Johnnybegood13]

A 27 year old #1 defenseman gets you more than Sam Bennett

Except he wouldn't be a number 1 in Calgary.

 

[jay from jersey]

please stop

fine, someone asked, there was no reply and I expected it was an automatic no unless there was overpayment, hence Zuc.

In any case, not seeing a good match anyway.



not so much


HUGE logic. Not my fault if you ignore it.

McD + gets Trouba +, Trouba gets ELC Reinhart from Sabes
Cs would be Reinhart, Zib, Hayes, Miller, Jooris, Zib likely to 1RW.

ample time to move Stepan, re-purpose his 6.5 per


logical also.
Canes can afford Pesce Murphy + greater picks for Stepan + lesser picks.
Could they use Stepan? Yes.
fully logical


sell KK high replace w/younger

NYR are not gona turn around half of the team. and what is the freakin obsession with brett Pesce. There is no way you trade stepan a poor mans slower version of bergeron, a guy who is signed for under 7 million plays PP PK Even strength all situations and scores playoff game 7 overtime winners for a number 3-4 defenseman. I rather ice joe pesci then make that trade

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

What? McDonagh doesn't even get you Bennett.

HF-virus prospecteritus strikes again.

 

[Off Sides]

Well Bern's logic that the Rangers want to move Stepan before his NMC kicks in certainly isn't far fetched. The problem is replacing him equivalently, which is especially difficult now that Brassard was dealt. It wouldn't shock me if Stepan was moved but I have no idea how they could replace at center.

According to the most popular cap sites, Stepan does not have a NMC

Full no trade 17-18 and 18-19

15 team no trade in 19-20 and 20-21

Pesce I think is a good player and all, but that trade is not good.

 

[Beacon]

The biggest organizational need for the Rangers are RDs. That's true at both the NHL and farm level.

 

[Doriva]

HUGE logic. Not my fault if you ignore it.

IN YOUR OPINION.

Stop presenting your opinions as fact that garbage tilts me so much. The daily paragraphs on every single ranger thread filled with nonsensical tirades that are barely even relevant to the OP.

 

[One Winged Angel]

IN YOUR OPINION.

Stop presenting your opinions as fact that garbage tilts me so much. The daily paragraphs on every single ranger thread filled with nonsensical tirades that are barely even relevant to the OP.

Yeah, it's beyond annoying. Every thread he's in is a Stepan for Pesce ++ joke at this point.

It's gotten to a point where I'm close to blocking him. I'm tired of seeing it and the ****show of non-sensible bullet points that come afterwards saying that we need to rid of his contract when he can't even get his facts straight, as Stepan doesn't even have an NMC. He has a limited no-trade clause.

I'd just brush it off if it was in Stepan related threads, but it's in every thread and Brett Pesce, while a decent young defenseman, isn't someone who you target as the centerpiece of a trade for your team's top center. It's ridiculous.

 

[Maukkis]

Yeah, it's beyond annoying. Every thread he's in is a Stepan for Pesce ++ joke at this point.

It's gotten to a point where I'm close to blocking him. I'm tired of seeing it and the ****show of non-sensible bullet points that come afterwards saying that we need to rid of his contract when he can't even get his facts straight, as Stepan doesn't even have an NMC. He has a limited no-trade clause.

I'd just brush it off if it was in Stepan related threads, but it's in every thread and Brett Pesce, while a decent young defenseman, isn't someone who you target as the centerpiece of a trade for your team's top center. It's ridiculous.

It's the contract after the ELC. You play for under a million per year, you're the greatest thing since Crosby, untouchable etc... and then you get paid accordingly, your value diminishes and everyone wants you gone.

 

[bernmeister]

Well Bern's logic that the Rangers want to move Stepan before his NMC kicks in certainly isn't far fetched. The problem is replacing him equivalently, which is especially difficult now that Brassard was dealt. It wouldn't shock me if Stepan was moved but I have no idea how they could replace at center.

According to the most popular cap sites, Stepan does not have a NMC

Full no trade 17-18 and 18-19

15 team no trade in 19-20 and 20-21

Pesce I think is a good player and all, but that trade is not good.

Yeah, it's beyond annoying. Every thread he's in is a Stepan for Pesce ++ joke at this point.

It's gotten to a point where I'm close to blocking him. I'm tired of seeing it and the ****show of non-sensible bullet points that come afterwards saying that we need to rid of his contract when he can't even get his facts straight, as Stepan doesn't even have an NMC. He has a limited no-trade clause.

I'd just brush it off if it was in Stepan related threads, but it's in every thread and Brett Pesce, while a decent young defenseman, isn't someone who you target as the centerpiece of a trade for your team's top center. It's ridiculous.

Cap Fanager seems to say next year only NMC specifically
then quotes this NY Post article as source; in pertinent part it says:

Stepan, who does not qualify for no-trade protection the first two years of the deal, has a no-move clause for Years 3 and 4 and a limited no-trade for the final two years of the deal. His deal is front-loaded at $8 million per the first two years, $7 million the third year, $6 million the fourth year and $5 million for each of the final two seasons.

I'm not sure I understand the 1 yr/ 2 yr dif

but it does appear that this is saying he earns a NMC after this season.

If I am misreading this, someone please feel free to explain it to me.
Seems cut and dried right there.

It's the contract after the ELC. You play for under a million per year, you're the greatest thing since Crosby, untouchable etc... and then you get paid accordingly, your value diminishes and everyone wants you gone.

Stepan is paid commensurate with his status as approx 20th best C +/-.
Contrary to opinion, I do not hate him, I simply believe he is worth more to us in trade than if kept.

However, I do not want any player given NMC, period.
It ties up GM's hands.

 

[Off Sides]

Cap Fanager seems to say next year only NMC specifically
then quotes this NY Post article as source; in pertinent part it says:



I'm not sure I understand the 1 yr/ 2 yr dif

but it does appear that this is saying he earns a NMC after this season.

If I am misreading this, someone please feel free to explain it to me.
Seems cut and dried right there.

Depends on which report one trusts

Stepan said the contract includes a full no-trade clause in years three and four and a 15-team limited no-trade clause for years five and six.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...gns-rangers-39-million-deal-article-1.2305283

Stepan, who does not qualify for no-trade protection the first two years of the deal, has a no-move clause for Years 3 and 4 and a limited no-trade for the final two years of the deal.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/27/rangers-lock-up-derek-stepan-for-6-years-39m/

Capfriend uses the 1st report

Generalfan uses the 2nd

 

[Shootertooter]

NYR are not gona turn around half of the team. and what is the freakin obsession with brett Pesce. There is no way you trade stepan a poor mans slower version of bergeron, a guy who is signed for under 7 million plays PP PK Even strength all situations and scores playoff game 7 overtime winners for a number 3-4 defenseman. I rather ice joe pesci then make that trade

.......just don't call him "shoe shine boy"

 

[Shootertooter]

HUGE logic. Not my fault if you ignore it.

McD + gets Trouba +, Trouba gets ELC Reinhart from Sabes
Cs would be Reinhart, Zib, Hayes, Miller, Jooris, Zib likely to 1RW.

ample time to move Stepan, re-purpose his 6.5 per


logical also.
Canes can afford Pesce Murphy + greater picks for Stepan + lesser picks.
Could they use Stepan? Yes.
fully logical


sell KK high replace w/younger

You think trading half the team is logical? That is your issue.

So you are trading McD for Trouba, Trouba for Reinhart......and then KK eventually. Adding Pesce and Murphy. Um, do you have access to Pesce's stats? He's pretty run of the mill for you to be acting like he is our savior. I'd prefer to keep Mc D and maybe pursue Trouba via trade for a forward+. I kind of think it makes a lot more sense than trading half of the team. Does Carolina know they want to take Stepan off our hands? Why not go for Hanafin? At this point any good defenseman works because you have plans to trade all of ours away.

 

[bernmeister]

Depends on which report one trusts


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...gns-rangers-39-million-deal-article-1.2305283



http://nypost.com/2015/07/27/rangers-lock-up-derek-stepan-for-6-years-39m/

Capfriend uses the 1st report

Generalfan uses the 2nd

Thank you for the confirmation/acknowledgment.
I do not claim an special knowledge as to which of these sources is actually right as to NMC. However, given I quoted a legit source we were all taking as gospel like a year+ ago, it is clear as to where I was coming from.

 

[bernmeister]

NYR are not gona turn around half of the team. and what is the freakin obsession with brett Pesce. There is no way you trade stepan a poor mans slower version of bergeron, a guy who is signed for under 7 million plays PP PK Even strength all situations and scores playoff game 7 overtime winners for a number 3-4 defenseman. I rather ice joe pesci then make that trade

IN YOUR OPINION.

Stop presenting your opinions as fact that garbage tilts me so much. The daily paragraphs on every single ranger thread filled with nonsensical tirades that are barely even relevant to the OP.

You think trading half the team is logical? That is your issue.

So you are trading McD for Trouba, Trouba for Reinhart......and then KK eventually. Adding Pesce and Murphy. Um, do you have access to Pesce's stats? He's pretty run of the mill for you to be acting like he is our savior. I'd prefer to keep Mc D and maybe pursue Trouba via trade for a forward+. I kind of think it makes a lot more sense than trading half of the team. Does Carolina know they want to take Stepan off our hands? Why not go for Hanafin? At this point any good defenseman works because you have plans to trade all of ours away.

I made my comments for the legit purposes of entertaining likeliness of Flames - Rangers deal, including specifically as to KK, and more specifically, if he were moved, was that not do-able because of lack of Ranger RD depth?

I showed it is plausible that McD + gets Trouba which gets Reinhart which makes Stepan available for RD, so in theory KK available, if Cal could make best offer.

I welcome comments and debate of specifics, such as whether or not elc exp exempt Pesce + Murphy + cap dump and winning upgrade on 3 picks is best deal. Pre draft we were looking at Dumba +, which did not materialize.

However, I am trying to maintain proper observance of rules.

What I said, given the KK connection, was NOT hijacking.
YOU guys, pulling this over, are leaning in that direction.
not me.

Accordingly, when I have chance either tom or over w/e, I will address the above in the correct forum at Rangers board.

 

[Shootertooter]

I made my comments for the legit purposes of entertaining likeliness of Flames - Rangers deal, including specifically as to KK, and more specifically, if he were moved, was that not do-able because of lack of Ranger RD depth?

I showed it is plausible that McD + gets Trouba which gets Reinhart which makes Stepan available for RD, so in theory KK available, if Cal could make best offer.

I welcome comments and debate of specifics, such as whether or not elc exp exempt Pesce + Murphy + cap dump and winning upgrade on 3 picks is best deal. Pre draft we were looking at Dumba +, which did not materialize.

However, I am trying to maintain proper observance of rules.

What I said, given the KK connection, was NOT hijacking.
YOU guys, pulling this over, are leaning in that direction.
not me.

Accordingly, when I have chance either tom or over w/e, I will address the above in the correct forum at Rangers board.

I'm not trying to make light of this, but to suggest that simply making a proposal makes something plausible is kind of ridiculous. This is your opinion on how you think things should go, it is not close to being factual or legit and certainly has no street cred whatsoever. It is merely a plan in your head and it does not garner any extra legitimacy for being such.

let's assess your proposal:

McD+ gets Trouba
While I'd love Trouba, the reality is McD+ is extreme overpayment for an RFA that might not want to re sign with his current team. That scenario does not seem plausible in regard to your proposal. McD is the best player in this trade.....and +?

Lets say the deal happens without the +, since we should in no way need to add to that......we now have a giant hole where McD used to occupy......why would we then go an move Trouba, as a coveted young RHD for anyone? He is the NYR's greatest need right now. Considering the only way we would make a move for him and trade McD would be if he negotiated a contract with us. Once that move is made, you do not turn around and trade that asset.....isn't that negotiating in bad faith?

Next, you want to move Trouba for a another center. And then we have Reinhart, Step, Zib, Hayes, Lindberg, Jooris, Miller(who has become a wing) etc. And we had two great stud D men that we let go for another center, which clearly is not NYR's need.

Ok, so then we can move Step for a RHD....but who would that be because we had the guy we really wanted in Trouba.......Barrie? Shattenkirk? Who?

I personally do not see the Rangers moving Step, since they moved Brassard. If that trade didn't happen, Step was the guy I thought surely was getting moved. Step for Dumba...but not any more.

I personally don't think Ryan Murphy and Pesce are upgrades and I don't know if Carolina is looking for a top tier center with a 6+ million cap hit and NMC.

So now the D looks like...in no particular pairing order or consideration to which side these guys play.....Staal, Girardi, Clendening, Skjei, MClbust, Holden, KK, Murphy, Pesce...w/ Clendoning likely in the AHL...oh wait, you are moving KK out for picks?? So we also move out the best RHD on the team with a controlled contract for a couple of picks or prospects. What is left is a scary defensive group and not scary good.

Here is why this is not a realistic or even logical proposal...too many moves that are redundant... why not simply attempt to move a guy like Miller for RHD such as Trouba...done deal instead of trading half the team away. Of course other lesser deals might happen getting picks or prospect along the way. I expect Nash to be moved at the deadline for picks and prospects.

I just don't think your proposal is remotely logical or even well thought out. Sorry. It seems like a whole bunch of d- dancing to acquire minor pieces or things that don't address the teams needs.

The Rangers are a RHD away from being a very dangerous young team. Your proposed moves, decrease that dangerous aspect.

 

[bernmeister]

I'm not trying to make light of this, but to suggest that simply making a proposal makes something plausible is kind of ridiculous. This is your opinion on how you think things should go, it is not close to being factual or legit and certainly has no street cred whatsoever. It is merely a plan in your head and it does not garner any extra legitimacy for being such.

let's assess your proposal:

McD+ gets Trouba
While I'd love Trouba, the reality is McD+ is extreme overpayment for an RFA that might not want to re sign with his current team. That scenario does not seem plausible in regard to your proposal. McD is the best player in this trade.....and +?

Lets say the deal happens without the +, since we should in no way need to add to that......we now have a giant hole where McD used to occupy......why would we then go an move Trouba, as a coveted young RHD for anyone? He is the NYR's greatest need right now. Considering the only way we would make a move for him and trade McD would be if he negotiated a contract with us. Once that move is made, you do not turn around and trade that asset.....isn't that negotiating in bad faith?

Next, you want to move Trouba for a another center. And then we have Reinhart, Step, Zib, Hayes, Lindberg, Jooris, Miller(who has become a wing) etc. And we had two great stud D men that we let go for another center, which clearly is not NYR's need.

Ok, so then we can move Step for a RHD....but who would that be because we had the guy we really wanted in Trouba.......Barrie? Shattenkirk? Who?

I personally do not see the Rangers moving Step, since they moved Brassard. If that trade didn't happen, Step was the guy I thought surely was getting moved. Step for Dumba...but not any more.

I personally don't think Ryan Murphy and Pesce are upgrades and I don't know if Carolina is looking for a top tier center with a 6+ million cap hit and NMC.

So now the D looks like...in no particular pairing order or consideration to which side these guys play.....Staal, Girardi, Clendening, Skjei, MClbust, Holden, KK, Murphy, Pesce...w/ Clendoning likely in the AHL...oh wait, you are moving KK out for picks?? So we also move out the best RHD on the team with a controlled contract for a couple of picks or prospects. What is left is a scary defensive group and not scary good.

Here is why this is not a realistic or even logical proposal...too many moves that are redundant... why not simply attempt to move a guy like Miller for RHD such as Trouba...done deal instead of trading half the team away. Of course other lesser deals might happen getting picks or prospect along the way. I expect Nash to be moved at the deadline for picks and prospects.

I just don't think your proposal is remotely logical or even well thought out. Sorry. It seems like a whole bunch of d- dancing to acquire minor pieces or things that don't address the teams needs.

The Rangers are a RHD away from being a very dangerous young team. Your proposed moves, decrease that dangerous aspect.

I look forward to honest discussion of the merits with you.
that however is not HERE.
It was ok to say what I said in this thread because it directly related to KK availability, etc.

beyond that now we move towards hijacking.
pls note my prior post immediately above, closing sentence.

Accordingly, when I have chance either tom or over w/e, I will address the above in the correct forum at Rangers board.

look forward to catching up w you this w/e

ps in your haste to prosecute me, just with a quick glance, I see a flaw in what you said.
pls check what I said carefully

 

[smoneil]

I made my comments for the legit purposes of entertaining likeliness of Flames - Rangers deal, including specifically as to KK, and more specifically, if he were moved, was that not do-able because of lack of Ranger RD depth?


However, I am trying to maintain proper observance of rules.

What I said, given the KK connection, was NOT hijacking.
YOU guys, pulling this over, are leaning in that direction.
not me.

This is crap. Pure, total crap. How do I know? Because I've seen this set of Bern trades. The McD for Trouba? The Trouba for Reinhart? The Stepan for Pesce? I've effing seen it. I've seen it in NYR/Calgary trade threads. I've seen it in NYR/Vancouver trade threads. I've seen it in NYR/Carolina trade threads. I've seen it in offseason threads.

You regurgitate this idea in ANY thread and try to justify it as "on topic" because if you squint at it at an oblong angle, you could connect it in a tiny way, because one of your 27 moves tangentially connects to the team being discussed in that thread.

It's beyond annoying, it's completely unrealistic, and it makes the Rangers a worse team every single time (because your endgame is always to ice a Rangers roster with an average age of 2nd trimester).

The fact that you now shroud all of this crap in a holier than thou, know-it-all tone is just the icing on that cake.

On topic--I think Klein could be had. Not because there is a 27 part series of trades, but because if we DON'T trade him, we likely lose him to Las Vegas. The Rangers HAVE to protect Staal and Girardi, and they aren't exposing McD. Once the season gets moving, it will likely depend on a few things, like how well Girardi plays, how much rope AV gives McIlrath, whether/how well guys like Skjei or Holden can play the right side, whether Clendenning or Paliotta look like they can stick, etc etc etc.

If the Rangers look like they can move Klein without losing much, and they can get a good asset in return, I think he could be in play. More of a December/January move than a September move, though.