Cale Makar scores 30 goals in a season, first since Mike Green

I think in a few years defensemen won't just be known as strict defenders, some may just produce numbers and play both an offensive-defensive game.

I know some players can impact gratefully offensively if they have lots of room on the ice.
 
No one was talking about Hughes in this thread until an Avs fan chimed in asking where’s all the Canucks fans. We already know Hughes isn’t in the running due to all the games missed. We’ve got more important team matters to worry about at the moment than whether or not Hughes wins another Norris. As for why Canucks fans argue for Hughes…because he was flat out better than Makar last season and was arguably playing better than anyone before suffering multiple different injuries this season. There is definitely a case to be made for Hughes as the best defensemen in the league right now.

Makar very well end his career with more Cups and individual awards. He plays on a way better team, which does help. He plays with arguably the best forward in the league, too. The Canucks’ top C who is being paid close to 12 million dollars a year didn’t even break 50 points this season. Time will tell if Hughes will remain with the Canucks long-term.

All I ever hear from Canucks fans is that Makar plays with MacKinnon.

Let’s talk about the fact that Quinn Hughes doesn’t have to play on the penalty kill.

He doesn’t have to get beat up on the PK and instead of playing those minutes in the D zone, he gets those minutes at even strength. That means he gets more opportunities to rack up points. That’s a huge advantage.

Quinn Hughes will be a hall of famer, but Cale Makar is the pinnacle, and Hughes will always be in his shadow.
 
I think in a few years defensemen won't just be known as strict defenders, some may just produce numbers and play both an offensive-defensive game.

I know some players can impact gratefully offensively if they have lots of room on the ice.
Ive been making a push since Tocchet took over with Hughes that they are creating a hybrid type dman position.

A. As many O zone starts as possible, which most top pairing dmen already do, so no real surprise here.
B. No penalty kill.
C. If they get a D zone start, only put out your top line O lines to help shelter them and get our of their zone quick.
D. Avoid other teams top offensive lines and actively play against bottom pairing Dmen when possible.

Im not even hating but it was clear this is the change Tocchet implemented from Boudreau and magically Hughes skyrockets in points. I feel like im the only one who sees it and bothers to dissect the stats deep enough. Makar/Fox/Josi/Hedman all went the other way playing more PK and playing against other teams top lines, while Hughes and Bouchard did the above. Kudos to them for figuring out how to use their players best, but its why the butthurt gets so strong when Hughes is compared to Makar when it reality he should be compared to 2022 EK65 or 2024 Playoffs Bouchard. He is an offensive specialist because that is what the Canucks need him to be.
 
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Am I the only one who thinks that 30 goals for a d-man now days isn’t all that impressive? The way scoring has gone up and bunch of d-men putting up bunch points. Rookie d-man like Hutson has 62 points in 74 games. Two more d-men other than Makar have 20 goals etc… I think the real impressive thing would be if a d-man can score 50 goals one of this days
only one 50 goal scorer this year, scoring is down
 
Goals 3.08 to 3.0
PP opps 3.02 to 2.71 is the big difference.

Down but it isnt massively down. Its more spread out maybe between everyone instead of only PP guys.
 
The reason why so many of us are bringing up Hughes is because Vancouver fans never shut up about how Makar sucks at Defense, he plays with Mackinnon nonstop, hughes is better blahblah when Hughes was outpacing makar earlier on.

There were a few poster who I feel like went into like 3 threads posting the exact same argument that Hughes is better every week, whenever Makar scored a sick goal or had a multipoint game.
It just got real annoying tbh, don’t really blame anyone for clapping back.
 
so Hughes would have scored more then makar this year, one thing neglected is that makar would still have had more goals. Reminds me of the saying if only horse shoes were hand geenades
 
Quinn Hughes will be a hall of famer, but Cale Makar is the pinnacle, and Hughes will always be in his shadow.
Not going to make an argument or anything here.

Hughes is 25 years old and you called him a sure hall of famer. Absolutely heated ongoing battles for years but the respect is there for the other teams guys from both fanbases. Wether some admit it or not lol

These guys are both great and that’s why the passion is so high in these threads. Ovi vs Crosby 2.0.



With that said, Cale Makar 30 goals 60 assists in 77 games. Unbelievable stuff, his style is just electrifying. Hope we see Oilers vs Avs this year
 
Makar's surely got the Norris locked up, right? I thought Werenski and Hughes were close for a while, but the Cale-ster has pulled away now, I think.

Makar's ES results this season kind of tell the Avs' season story:

Up to Dec. 12th
36 points in 31 games, +2

Dec. 13th to now
54 points in 46 games, +30
 
Am I the only one who thinks that 30 goals for a d-man now days isn’t all that impressive? The way scoring has gone up and bunch of d-men putting up bunch points. Rookie d-man like Hutson has 62 points in 74 games. Two more d-men other than Makar have 20 goals etc… I think the real impressive thing would be if a d-man can score 50 goals one of this days
Yeah seems like someone is doing it every 17 years.
 
Makar's surely got the Norris locked up, right? I thought Werenski and Hughes were close for a while, but the Cale-ster has pulled away now, I think.

Makar's ES results this season kind of tell the Avs' season story:

Up to Dec. 12th
36 points in 31 games, +2

Dec. 13th to now
54 points in 46 games, +30

9th december: Avs trade Alexandar Georgiev to San Jose Sharks. 🤨
 
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so Hughes would have scored more then makar this year, one thing neglected is that makar would still have had more goals. Reminds me of the saying if only horse shoes were hand geenades
Hughes season pace is 94 points, Makar is at 95. If Hughes wasn’t injured, they’d probably be close in points but Cale would still win the Norris because 30 goals and well, he’s just better than Hughes…

Cue the Makar vs Hughes

Round 1,500
 
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Hughes season pace is 94 points, Makar is at 95. If Hughes wasn’t injured, they’d probably be close in points but Cale would still win the Norris because 30 goals and well, he’s just better than Hughes…

Cue the Makar vs Hughes

Round 1,500

A lot of these things are narrative based so depends on what the writers would want to focus on. Hughes would have had the value argument in his favour this year with how far above the rest of his team in scoring he was and the difference in on-ice results. Makar has the goals and a harder defensive workload. The fact that Makar hasn’t won since 2022 despite being considered generally the best defenseman probably would have pushed things in his favour anyway, but the injury to Hughes makes it easy. Would be cool to see him hit 100 points as well, but that’s probably a tough ask
 
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Makar should be in the Hart conversation. This is the rare year where my top three might be a goalie, forward and a defenseman.
 
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And since then Makar has not won anything

No norris in 2023, 2024 and he would not win this year if Quinn Hughes was 100% healthy/Canucks in a playoff spot

Mackinnon has been top 3 in league scoring for 3 years running and has been a top 3 player since.

Defenseman are almost never better players or more valuable players than comparable forwards.

Look at all time lists, hart/lindsay voting, smythe voting etc

Mackinnon has been the best Avs player for 3 years running now.

The only year Makar was better than Mackinnon in their time together was 2021-2022.

2019-2020, 2020-2021, 2022-2023, 2023-2024 and 2024-2025 Mackinnon has been the clear cut better play

I would give edge to Makar this season. He is producing at around 80% rate of Mackinnon. IMO 100 point D is better than 125points forward. But it is pretty close.
Hart/Lindsay is bassically forward award historically so it is moot point.
Healthy Hughes would make it close this year, nothing close to 100%. More like 50/50
 
Ive been making a push since Tocchet took over with Hughes that they are creating a hybrid type dman position.

A. As many O zone starts as possible, which most top pairing dmen already do, so no real surprise here.
B. No penalty kill.
C. If they get a D zone start, only put out your top line O lines to help shelter them and get our of their zone quick.
D. Avoid other teams top offensive lines and actively play against bottom pairing Dmen when possible.

Im not even hating but it was clear this is the change Tocchet implemented from Boudreau and magically Hughes skyrockets in points. I feel like im the only one who sees it and bothers to dissect the stats deep enough. Makar/Fox/Josi/Hedman all went the other way playing more PK and playing against other teams top lines, while Hughes and Bouchard did the above. Kudos to them for figuring out how to use their players best, but its why the butthurt gets so strong when Hughes is compared to Makar when it reality he should be compared to 2022 EK65 or 2024 Playoffs Bouchard. He is an offensive specialist because that is what the Canucks need him to be.
That's what commonly known as coaching.
 
That's what commonly known as coaching.
Obviously, but its like the PP slingshot. It first came out and then everyone copied it. My point is Hughes is essentially the first weve really seen of it. But you can see where its easy to point at him and be like "defense yo!" but its also not his fault. If the Norris is the best dman, then you should play defense. If we want an Art Ross for defense, cool, petition for it. Hart/Art Style.
 

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