Calder Watch : 2024-25 Season

[ole ole]

Everyone has an opinion and none of them are wrong. How I would rank them of who I think it is and who I would want on my team is:

Celebrini 1st - Very exciting player, love this kid. Wish he was on my team, love his game and only 18 years old crazy think how good he will become. Watching this kid play is a pleasure.

Wolf 2nd - 23 years old, already a 1G on a not great team. He potentially could become the most valuable of the three players I’m listing. Love to have him on my team.

Hutson 3rd - At 21 years old Elite skating mobility, vision and offensive instincts. Good points generator, but not exactly my style of D man. Good offensive small Dman.

That all being said, any could win and there’s an argument for each. For the record Im not a fan of any of these teams. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, just my preferences. To each their own.

But who you would pick to be on your team has nothing to do with the Calder THIS season.

 

[ole ole]

By no means is this me saying Celebrini deserves the calder, but you quoted someone who addressed a comment about Celebrini not being able to outscore Hutson. He has 2 less points in 8 less games. It's not like Hutson has been drastically outscoring him like the original poster claimed.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Hutson has been drastically outscoring him even though forwards normally should be outscoring a D-man.

 

[ole ole]

By how fiercely the Habs fans and defenseman stans have been beating the Hutson drum and minimizing Celebrini's season, I fully expect that if Celebrini wins, the Habs fans will be booing him for years to come and any time he plays poorly in big games, the defenseman stans will troll the threads.

Wow the pot calling the kettle black. You actually have it backwards. It's the Non Hab fans who are trying to minimizing Lane's season. They are throwing ever excuse they can think of and some very bad one's i might add.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Kind of misleading, your trying to make it sound like Lane is 3 yrs older. Not close..

its been happening all thread.

Celebrini born in June 2006, Lane February 2004. Separated by about 2 years 4 months. But most importantly, 2 draft years, not 3.

Celebrini is the only active player born in 2006 in the league this year.

There are no active defensemen born in 2006 in the league this year.
There are no active regular defensemen born in 2005 in the league this year. Levshunov has been given a cup of coffee from Chicago.
There are only 2 active regular defensemen born in 2004 in the league this year
Lane Hutson and Denton Mateychuk who has been a full time NHLer since about Christmas

 

[ole ole]

Whether Hutson or Celebrini will win the calder is hard to say with high certainty. Hype, draft placement, age, and the whims of the voters all add noise to the award process.

Which of them is having the better season of hockey is another matter. Here, advanced stats models paint a rather clear picture.

Here's Celebrini's card:

View attachment 1010751


And now Hutson's:

View attachment 1010754



If we put aside Hutson's elite offense, his defensive percentile remains higher than Celebrini's, who nevertheless gets touted as a 200ft-centreman, a reputation whose origin remains rather obscure.

If someone would like to argue that Celebrini's season is more impressive given his age, they are free to do so. If they would then like to argue this suggests Celebrini has a higher potential than Hutson, they are free to do so. They will find it harder to argue Celebrini is the superior player this season.


If someone has a sophisticated case for Celebrini, I'd like to hear it. Simply asserting this guy or that guy is better is creating more heat than light, and bringing out the worst in everyone involved.

How can anyone argue with this is beyond belief but they will come in bunches.

 

[Doc5]

Celebrini: 18 years old, 66 GP 24 G 38 A 62 P = 0.93 PPG

Hutson: 21 years old, 78 GP 6 G 58 A 64 P = 0.82 PPG

Not even close. Celebrini's season is way more impressive.

I’m just curious, as you wrote out their stat lines, did it ever cross your mind that one is a defenseman?

I’m a Habs fan, so naturally a Hutson fan. I love Celebrini’s game, so I refrain from commenting in this thread, as it ultimately ends up being about putting down the other prospect. Had to make a comment here because this was a pretty bad take.

 

[Hunter368]

But who you would pick to be on your team has nothing to do with the Calder THIS season.

You didn’t read my post clear enough. I did rank them for both, you disagree bc you’re a Habs fan I get it. All good as I said, any can win

 

[Ford Prefect]

I think it's understandable to be annoyed at other fans denigrating the historic quality of Celebrini's season. There is little doubt in my mind that he has generational upside.

I also think it's reasonable to think that voters who would put him ahead of Hutson on their ballot are either wrong (since we agree Hutson is having the better season), or voting as if the Calder trophy is not purely about rewarding the best rookie season.

That said, some Habs fans' gloating in this thread has been particularly annoying. In their defense, they wasted months debating posters who were attacking Hutson, and these debates have now been settled unilaterally in the Habs fans' favor. They are taking a well-earned (if rather wearisome) victory lap on the heads of the doubters.

Both teams have solid gold players in their lap. Congrats.

The way that "generational" gets bandied about is ridiculous. There have been 3 generational players since 1967. It's too bad that most people here never got a chance to see one play (and I don't mean highlights) to truly understand how much better a generational player is than his peers.

 

[TheBeard]

View attachment 1010850

The amount of Habs fans triggered that I think they have a pretty solid team is something else.

 

[ole ole]

Celebrini: 18 years old, 66 GP 24 G 38 A 62 P = 0.93 PPG

Hutson: 21 years old, 78 GP 6 G 58 A 64 P = 0.82 PPG

Not even close. Celebrini's season is way more impressive.

Put any age to them. Place them on any team. Which player is have the better season Player A or Player B.
Player A--- Forward ------66 GP--24 G--38 A --62 PTS--Minus 26
Player B -Defencemen-----78 GP----6G--58A---64 PTS --Minus 1

 

[Ford Prefect]

Pitiful excuse. Hutson made Montreal better, SAN Jose still stinks despite 2 highly touted rookies.
Hutson is the rookie of the year, case closed.

That's flawed thinking. You're not considering the balance of the team, like they're playing on equally competitive teams. I agree that Hutson really turned the Habs' season around and he is Calder worthy. But equating team success with personal performance is erroneous. Think of it this way: If Hutson were on San Jose (without Celebrini) are they a playoff team? Highly doubt it. If Celebrini was on Montreal, would they be in the same position? Possibly. While we wouldn't have that dynamic D that turned the PP around, we would have an exceptional 1-2 punch at center, and 2 high-scoring lines (him between Laine and Dach/Newhook/whoever would be pretty lethal imho).

 

[Ford Prefect]

Celebrini: 18 years old, 66 GP 24 G 38 A 62 P = 0.93 PPG

Hutson: 21 years old, 78 GP 6 G 58 A 64 P = 0.82 PPG

Not even close. Celebrini's season is way more impressive.

Celebrini was the centerpiece of the Sharks offence since day 1. Hutson didn't get PP1 time until game 25-30. If he started the season there (which most agree he should have), he would most likely be a point-a-game player, already broken the rookie d-man scoring record.

 

[SallyBalls]

Do we have to use a first overall on Hutson or can we use the 62nd overall again?

One of the greatest smash and grabs of all time. Larceny.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Say what you want about Dom Luszczyszyn, but his player rating model I find to be very good and it does a good job at depicting how someone's season has gone at a quick glimpse.

Since November 26th (Hutson's first game without being anchored to Savard + taking over top line PP duties), his model has Hutson as the 3rd best defenseman in hockey.

I've been pounding the drum for the last few weeks - Hutson has been the Habs MVP and has been a top-10 defenseman in the league. That should not be considered even a remotely controversial statement like it was just 2 weeks ago. If you don't agree with that you don't know hockey.

 

[viceroy]

You forgot all those secondary assist , terrible defensively, Too small, better team, better players [even though all our players and team supposedly sucked before the start of the season, bottom feeders if i remember correctly.] Head fakes get you nowhere, Looks like a lizard, plus/minus when it was at -13 etc...

What? no mention of his cockiness?

 

[wetcoast]

Finally this is the update some have been waiting for.

Results were in before last nights game but the 3 finalists is as many have been calling it since early in the new year.

I'm guessing the many who downplayed the ESPN surveys in past months will be gracious with the update.

NHL Awards Watch: Final regular-season ballots for seven different trophies

The MVP and rookie of the year races have new leaders. Here's the latest intel from PHWA voters.

www.espn.com

Hutson is leading the Calder Trophy race -- and it's an absolute blowout according to the ballots we surveyed.

The Canadiens rookie earned 87% of the first-place votes in the final Awards Watch, which is an astounding number when one considers he was at just 11% last month. Since Feb. 1, Hutson had 25 points in 27 games, second most on the Habs in that stretch behind Nick Suzuki (35 points). On the season, Hutson has six goals and 58 assists in 78 games, skating 22:39 per game.

 

[domiwroze]

The amount of Habs fans triggered that I think they have a pretty solid team is something else.

My bad, didn't think that a chill guy like Lebowski would project '' triggered '' for ya.

Must be the cockiness from Hutson, it's changing us for the worst.

 

[Frank Drebin]

My bad, didn't think that a chill guy like Lebowski would project '' triggered '' for ya.

Must be the cockiness from Hutson, it's changing us for the worst.

Inhuman lizard powers

 

[Star Platinum]

I've said earlier this year I just don't think Will Smith is a C at the NHL level.

The more I watch San Jose this year the less I think that's an issue. Celebrini and Smith have such instant chemistry I doubt they'll be separated going forward.

Last night, the chemistry was off the charts. Most of the year, they have struggled on the same line with some infrequent moments of brilliance, but last night they took it to a new level.

 

[Star Platinum]

As good as Celebrini was yesterday, I thought Will Smith was more impressive. He could've been in the conversation if he started the year as good as he's playing now.

If the Sharks land Schaefer they are beyond set. They have the brightest future in the league.

Celebrini was a star from Day One. Smith is a more cerebral player and it took him a while to adjust to the bigger faster skaters. His growth this year has been extremely satisifying given how long it took for him to get his first point.

 

[Star Platinum]

The discomfort in the words is obvious for those that are still holding on to their uneducated beliefs about Hutson, while trying to feign objectivity.

“Not my type of dman” is one of the funniest things I’ve read this morning.

Wolf has been great, but he’s not exactly my type of goalie. I like them bigger

Haven't watched a ton of Wolf this year, but was really impressed by him in the last Sharks-Flames game. His mental game is really strong and he anticipates plays at a very high level. Should be a very good goalie for years to come.

 

[karltonian]

As good as Celebrini was yesterday, I thought Will Smith was more impressive. He could've been in the conversation if he started the year as good as he's playing now.

If the Sharks land Schaefer they are beyond set. They have the brightest future in the league.

Smith is nowhere near the player Celebrini is even now at the best he's ever been playing. He benefits tremendously from the defensive attention paid to Celebrini but his utter lack of physicality and lack of skating explosiveness are liabilities that can lead to him being completely eliminated if any defensive attention is paid to him.

 

[SoCalSharkzFan]

So you haven't seen him play.

Any time you criticize one of these homer's players, they always say: you haven't seen them play. Seriously, I'd say there's at least 40 posts in this thread saying the same thing.

You know a dude is pressed when he posts 3 in a row, and 9 out of 13

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Any time you criticize one of these homer's players, they always say: you haven't seen them play. Seriously, I'd say there's at least 40 posts in this thread saying the same thing.

You know a dude is pressed when he posts 3 in a row, and 10 out of 14

...well, his reply was to your post about him being a defensive liability, which he isn't...plus player 5on5, especially since the 4 Nations break; it was the early season EN goals that still have him at a minus...he's been much better defensively...if people would stop posting this falsehood, there wouldn't be such replies...

 

[Ezpz]

The way that "generational" gets bandied about is ridiculous. There have been 3 generational players since 1967. It's too bad that most people here never got a chance to see one play (and I don't mean highlights) to truly understand how much better a generational player is than his peers.

In terms of rookie defenseman seasons Hutson's likely having the best one in league history. Close to the record but Larry Murphy played in the highest scoring era with a 135 point center and two other 100+ point players on his team. For points % Hutson is the GOAT rookie season; absolutely deserving of the word generational for an individual season. It doesn't mean Hutson is generational, but he is arguably having the best rookie dman season in league history.

Since generations are only 15 years typically, and no one has been this good since the 80s, it's basically triple generational. I guess we can call him Triple H(utson). He is the game and he is that damn good. You know?