Calder Watch : 2024-25 Season

[Jabba11]

Truthfully, I really don't mind if Lane Hutson loses the Calder to Celebrini.

Let's be honest, they are both insane young players. If it gives the Sharks something to celebrate, a Calder and a top pick, then good for you guys.

I am just very happy if Lane gets a nomination and if the Habs make the playoffs. We know we wouldn't be making them if Lane wasn’t there. He's that special and important to our franchise and we are more than glad to have him.

 

[My3Sons]

If you read the posts, that’s not how they mean it at all though. They mean he sucks defensively or is a liability. That is just false.

Hutson certainly does not have limitations in terms of effectiveness defensively. Like you said, who cares how it happens if he gets the job done, and he has been. Very well.

I'm guessing some do and some don't. Most posts are fairly short and can be hard to glean nuance. I've been impressed with Hutson's growth as a player over the course of the season. I agree with the poster who suggested that he's the primary reason for the team's jump in the standings. He's probably improved three times as much as a defender but even his offense is better now than at the beginning of the season. Early on he didn't create shots and was no threat to score goals and he's improved on that. Really impressive stuff.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Not likely a Calder finalist but Cutter Gauthier scored his 18th and 19th goals last night for Anaheim, including the OT winner. That's third among rookies. He's +10 with 3 GWG.

He’d probably win it in many other years.

 

[My3Sons]

The discomfort in the words is obvious for those that are still holding on to their uneducated beliefs about Hutson, while trying to feign objectivity.

“Not my type of dman” is one of the funniest things I’ve read this morning.

Wolf has been great, but he’s not exactly my type of goalie. I like them bigger

I think you are overreaching here. I think that style of player has little to do with winning the Calder but someone saying I want a tall rangy defender or a long limbed goalie is not some sort of salty backhanded compliment. The reality is NHL teams routinely look for those sorts of players. Not everyone is feigning objectivity and looking to insult Hutson in some fashion. Don't go extreme about it. You can say Hutson is quite talented and has a few warts. That's not an insult. Almost every player has a few warts.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

There will always be fans that expect their defenders to hit guys and tie them up. What smaller guys like Hutson or Hughes do is subtle and requires skill and understanding of how to do it. It can be very effective but it is not traditional so some folks will always be skeptical of it. Saying Hutson has defensive limitations is true in the same way a big hitting guy might handle the puck like a grenade and be more prone to turnovers. Few players are perfect and the bottom line is if Hutson is effective then who cares how it happens.

It's the same reason why Lidstrom didn't win a Norris until his 30s (no, I'm not saying Hutson is Lidstrom-level defensively). People get caught up with what they think is good defensive play that they ignore the bottom line of a guy who is non-physical but smart in his defensive play.

He'll never be the guy clearing creases or leveling guys at the blueline but he'll be the guy making sure crease-clearing is rarely necessary.

 

[My3Sons]

It's the same reason why Lidstrom didn't win a Norris until his 30s (no, I'm not saying Hutson is Lidstrom-level defensively). People get caught up with what they think is good defensive play that they ignore the bottom line of a guy who is non-physical but smart in his defensive play.

He'll never be the guy clearing creases or leveling guys at the blueline but he'll be the guy making sure crease-clearing is rarely necessary.

I recall a segment on tv about 100 years ago where Bobby Orr showed how to defend against a player coming into the zone (man I'm old). He basically angled the guy to the boards and then looked to see where the puck went. Stop the attacker's momentum just by getting in front of him, no big hit, no violence. Orr was not a bit hitter but nobody fused about his defense.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I think you are overreaching here. I think that style of player has little to do with winning the Calder but someone saying I want a tall rangy defender or a long limbed goalie is not some sort of salty backhanded compliment. The reality is NHL teams routinely look for those sorts of players. Not everyone is feigning objectivity and looking to insult Hutson in some fashion. Don't go extreme about it. You can say Hutson is quite talented and has a few warts. That's not an insult. Almost every player has a few warts.

I get that you're playing devils advocate but its pretty clear to see what posters are trying to do. Its fine though. I do it too when I'm trying to get a rise out of someone.

 

[My3Sons]

I get that you're playing devils advocate but its pretty clear to see what posters are trying to do. Its fine though. I do it too when I'm trying to get a rise out of someone.

Again I think some are and some aren’t. It takes repeated viewings and paying close attention to understand how Hutson plays defense. Most fans of other teams aren’t going to watch a specific player on a team they don’t care about, much less when it’s a player they are not interested in beyond some superficial sniping back and forth. I was fortunate to see a few replays in games of how Hutson worked to defend bigger players in the zone and his approach stated to make sense only after that. Highlights won’t cover that stuff. I guess what I’m saying is there are many under informed posters who don’t get to see the details which is critical with a guy like Hutson. Of course there are some who want to just tweak Montreal fans - who at times a few have gone overboard - but that’s not good discussion. Someone who is stubborn or overly emotional about it says more about them than whatever player criticism they offer. Montreal fans should be ecstatic with Hutson and this season overall. Who cares if he wins the Calder. Really if he doesn’t does that somehow detract from his season if he came in second? To me the team making the playoffs is much more important than some individual award.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Again I think some are and some aren’t. It takes repeated viewings and paying close attention to understand how Hutson plays defense. Most fans of other teams aren’t going to watch a specific player on a team they don’t care about, much less when it’s a player they are not interested in beyond some superficial sniping back and forth. I was fortunate to see a few replays in games of how Hutson worked to defend bigger players in the zone and his approach stated to make sense only after that. Highlights won’t cover that stuff. I guess what I’m saying is there are many under informed posters who don’t get to see the details which is critical with a guy like Hutson. Of course there are some who want to just tweak Montreal fans - who at times a few have gone overboard - but that’s not good discussion. Someone who is stubborn or overly emotional about it says more about them than whatever player criticism they offer. Montreal fans should be ecstatic with Hutson and this season overall. Who cares if he wins the Calder. Really if he doesn’t does that somehow detract from his season if he came in second? To me the team making the playoffs is much more important than some individual award.

thread mvp right here

 

[My3Sons]

thread mvp right here

No it’s just that I’m old and my kids are a lot more important than the team I cheer for. I can appreciate the game and the players in a more detached way. It’s a much better viewing experience for me than when I was young and let it get to me.

 

[StrawHatEklund]

Per ESPN article, panelists were picking Hutson with 1st place votes and it wasn’t even particularly close but that was before Celebrini’s 5 point game so that is based on his 57 points in 65 games while he was semi slumping to end season. Hutson should still win but I bet Celebrini wins more 1st place votes than a few days back.

NHL Awards Watch: Final regular-season ballots for seven different trophies

The MVP and rookie of the year races have new leaders. Here's the latest intel from PHWA voters.

www.espn.com

 

[crazynaiman]

Just like i said in my last post: How dishonest do you have to be to keep debating for Celebrini at this point?

"He's not outside the top 60, he's 57, gotcha!!!"

"Celebrini plays with nobody but Hutson's teammates are all having career years and their team is exponentially better than last year, WHO COULD HAVE POSSIBLY MADE THE DIFFERENCE HERE? Ah it's probably their elite coach on his first gig."

"D-man outscoring a supposedly elite center, but point totals don't paint the full picture when comparing ROLES THIS DIFFERENT LOLOL"

"Let's pretend like beating LOGAN COUTURE'S ROOKIE RECORD IS MEANINGFUL AS HE WAS A NOTORIOUS EARLY BLOOMER YEA?"

Ah yes, the classic “mock every point instead of addressing it” strategy.

We get it — you’re all in on Hutson. Fair enough, he’s having a phenomenal season. But brushing off Celebrini’s case with “he beat Couture’s record, lol who cares?” and sarcastically dodging your own false claim with “oh no, he’s 57th, not outside the top 60 — gotcha!” isn’t clever. It’s just deflection through snark. You got a basic fact wrong. Being called out on it isn’t nitpicking — it’s correcting you.

Celebrini is leading his team in scoring as an 18-year-old center, playing top-line minutes with AHL-caliber teammates. That doesn’t stop mattering just because you’ve decided the race is over.

Sure, Hutson elevated a better team — that’s impressive. But Celebrini walked into a disaster of a roster with the worst defense and goaltending in the league and still carried the offense. One guy made a 'meh' team better. The other gave a dead, broken team a pulse.

So if providing context, correcting inaccuracies, and recognizing both players' greatness is “dishonest” in your eyes — maybe you’re not here for a fair Calder debate. Maybe you’re just here to defend your favorite and laugh off anything that doesn’t fit your narrative.

Which, again — your call. Just don’t pretend you're seeing more of the picture than everyone else.

 

[Gliff]

He will probably be 6th in voting.

7th. Demidov will pass him

Seriously though you're probably right. The rookie class this year is stacked.

 

[Doublechin]

Per ESPN article, panelists were picking Hutson with 1st place votes and it wasn’t even particularly close but that was before Celebrini’s 5 point game so that is based on his 57 points in 65 games while he was semi slumping to end season. Hutson should still win but I bet Celebrini wins more 1st place votes than a few days back.

NHL Awards Watch: Final regular-season ballots for seven different trophies

The MVP and rookie of the year races have new leaders. Here's the latest intel from PHWA voters.

www.espn.com

Reasonable take

 

[Barrie22]

7th. Demidov will pass him

Seriously though you're probably right. The rookie class this year is stacked.

There are like 7 rookies this year that if it was any other year would be finalists.

Hutson, celebrini, michkov, wolf, smith, gauthier, stankoven.

 

[MoneyManny]

Ah yes, the classic “mock every point instead of addressing it” strategy.

We get it — you’re all in on Hutson. Fair enough, he’s having a phenomenal season. But brushing off Celebrini’s case with “he beat Couture’s record, lol who cares?” and sarcastically dodging your own false claim with “oh no, he’s 57th, not outside the top 60 — gotcha!” isn’t clever. It’s just deflection through snark. You got a basic fact wrong. Being called out on it isn’t nitpicking — it’s correcting you.

Celebrini is leading his team in scoring as an 18-year-old center, playing top-line minutes with AHL-caliber teammates. That doesn’t stop mattering just because you’ve decided the race is over.

Sure, Hutson elevated a better team — that’s impressive. But Celebrini walked into a disaster of a roster with the worst defense and goaltending in the league and still carried the offense. One guy made a 'meh' team better. The other gave a dead, broken team a pulse.

So if providing context, correcting inaccuracies, and recognizing both players' greatness is “dishonest” in your eyes — maybe you’re not here for a fair Calder debate. Maybe you’re just here to defend your favorite and laugh off anything that doesn’t fit your narrative.

Which, again — your call. Just don’t pretend you're seeing more of the picture than everyone else.

If you'd made any points i wouldn't of mocked them. All you did was use semantics and be dishonest.

Celebrini being 18 isn't any different than Hutson being 20. Position matters. Once again you're dishonest. Nobody ever compares forwards to defensemen's developing curves 1 for 1.

You mean Logan Couture's 48 points rookie season? THAT record?

What's that better team? Habs were dead last in the Atlantic in 2023-2024 without Lane. Now they're in the playoffs. The Sharks were dead last in the Pacific in 2023-2024 without Celebrini and now they're still dead last. How did he "carry" them again when they didn't move at all? I guess carrying a team to last place has it's... merits?

What did you do exactly to paint a good picture of Celebrini besides cling to semantics? Nothing here makes him look any better than Hutson besides his draft pedigree.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Same thing here. One guy’s doing it in chaos, the other in structure. Context is still king.

You're right that context is king.

Somehow many peoples doesn't seem to grasp that, despite their ppg being very close, Macklin is a forward while Hutson is a defenseman. This is the most important context to take into consideration when comparing them.

After Celebrini (.94), here are the best rookie forwards ppg-wise :

Michkov .78
Smith .63
Gauthier .54
Stankoven .48

After Hutson (.82) here are the best rookie defensemen ppg-wise :

Tompson .34
Mateychuk .30
Drrew Helleson .25

As you can see the gap between Hutson and his peers is very much bigger than Macklin and his peers.

Also when you repeat that context matter when referring to their age difference. Yes it does and a forward entering the league 2 years and 4 months younger than a defenseman really isn't that big of a deal.

 

[domiwroze]

Hutson is having a historic season — no doubt. A rookie defenseman pushing into the top 5 all-time in points, playing big minutes, and helping his team push for the playoffs? That’s special. He absolutely deserves to be a Calder frontrunner.

But saying there's “no argument” or that Celebrini “has no case” just isn’t accurate.

He’s 18 — the youngest player in the NHL — and he’s leading a bottom-five team in scoring with 62 points in 66 games. That’s elite rookie production in one of the toughest situations imaginable. He’s logging heavy minutes at center, often facing top matchups, with very little support around him. That still counts for a lot.

And since you asked — yes, he has broken records: multiple franchise records for San Jose, including the most points by a rookie (surpassing Logan Couture), as well as several pace records. They’re not league-wide like Hutson’s chase, but they’re still legit milestones.

Also, let’s correct the “not top 60” line: Celebrini is currently 57th among all forwards in scoring — that claim was just factually wrong.

And regarding the sarcastic jab — “There’s no way he’s getting outscored by a rookie Dman? HE IS?” — yes, he is. But again, context matters. Celebrini is a teenage center with almost no offensive support, carrying the load on a weak team. Hutson, while a defenseman, plays on a far better-structured roster with more talent around him. Raw point totals alone don’t paint the full picture when comparing roles this different.

And one more thing — you mentioned Hutson’s “strong 2-way game” and pointed to his +18. That’s just not accurate. His actual plus-minus is -1. He’s incredible offensively, no doubt, but let’s not rewrite reality to fit a narrative.

So yeah, Hutson might win. He’s earned that position.

But to say “there’s no debate” is just ignoring context and facts. Celebrini’s case is very real — and voters will be weighing role, age, position, team strength, and overall impact — not just box score flash.

The only argument is his age and who he is playing with then?

Panarin proved that age doesn’t matter for the calder.

Montreal « far better team » was expected bottom of the barrel next to Chicago and Sanjose. Hutson took over first pairing TOI around mid December and since then they are winning at an amazing pace that no one saw coming. The difference from 24-25 Habs and 23-24? Lane Hutson. Plain and simple. He is the difference between a top5 pick and playoffs. But I still understand your point that MTL is better than SJ, sure. But to me, making the playoffs because of a rookie, weights way more than « he’s having a good season even with a worse team ».

The +18 was clearly related to his last 22games if you read the full sentence. But I get that we’re grasping at straws to make arguments. If you actually believe that Hutson’s 200ft game is bad, you are trolling. I’ve seen Celebrini getting walked more often in 10games than Hutson’s full season.
« Yea but Celebrini is 18 » doesn’t matter my dude, it’s best season, not best potential.

Per ESPN article, panelists were picking Hutson with 1st place votes and it wasn’t even particularly close but that was before Celebrini’s 5 point game so that is based on his 57 points in 65 games while he was semi slumping to end season. Hutson should still win but I bet Celebrini wins more 1st place votes than a few days back.

NHL Awards Watch: Final regular-season ballots for seven different trophies

The MVP and rookie of the year races have new leaders. Here's the latest intel from PHWA voters.

www.espn.com

And if you read the whole thing, not only does he gets 87% of calder 1st place votes, he also gets votes for the Norris.

 

[NikolaTesla]

It is harder to come and be as good celebrini ha been as a 18 year old top line center, then it is to be a 21 year old defensemen.

Not really. Btw they have 2 years and 4 months difference, not 3 full years. Statistics probably shows that defensemen enter the league about 2 years after forwards.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Celebrini is 18 and plays C on a putrid team. 62 Points in 66 games with 24 goals.
Hutson is 21 and has 6 goals. 64 points. Half his points are secondary assists on the PP.

However Hutson is electric and fun to watch. Celebrini plays alot stronger brand of hockey

Both deserving imo

Long story short : you don't watch hutson's games.

 

[Sharp Skates]

Whether Hutson or Celebrini will win the calder is hard to say with high certainty. Hype, draft placement, age, and the whims of the voters all add noise to the award process.

Which of them is having the better season of hockey is another matter. Here, advanced stats models paint a rather clear picture.

Here's Celebrini's card:

And now Hutson's:

If we put aside Hutson's elite offense, his defensive percentile remains higher than Celebrini's, who nevertheless gets touted as a 200ft-centreman, a reputation whose origin remains rather obscure.

If someone would like to argue that Celebrini's season is more impressive given his age, they are free to do so. If they would then like to argue this suggests Celebrini has a higher potential than Hutson, they are free to do so. They will find it harder to argue Celebrini is the superior player this season.


If someone has a sophisticated case for Celebrini, I'd like to hear it. Simply asserting this guy or that guy is better is creating more heat than light, and bringing out the worst in everyone involved.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Come on. Let's be real here.

He makes some great reads at times so he's not a disaster but he is a work in progress at the NHL level and his size is going to limit him.

You sound like you watch a lot of his games. He is very solid defensively since january and is doint better as the season progress. He is NOT a liability at all at defense. Theres more to defense than cross checks and clearing the front of the net.

 

[MoneyManny]

Whether Hutson or Celebrini will win the calder is hard to say with high certainty. Hype, draft placement, age, and the whims of the voters all add noise to the award process.

Which of them is having the better season of hockey is another matter. Here, advanced stats models paint a rather clear picture.

Here's Celebrini's card:

View attachment 1010751


And now Hutson's:

View attachment 1010754



If we put aside Hutson's elite offense, his defensive percentile remains higher than Celebrini's, who nevertheless gets touted as a 200ft-centreman, a reputation whose origin remains rather obscure.

If someone would like to argue that Celebrini's season is more impressive given his age and suggests of a higher potential than Hutson's, they are free to do so, but Hutson is the superior player this season.


If someone has a sophisticated case for Celebrini, I'd like to hear it. Simply asserting this guy or that guy is better is creating more heat than light.

That's very interesting thank you for this.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Come on. Let's be real here.

He makes some great reads at times so he's not a disaster but he is a work in progress at the NHL level and his size is going to limit him.

What about this is real lmfao

 

[TheBeard]

What's that better team? Habs were dead last in the Atlantic in 2023-2024 without Lane. Now they're in the playoffs. The Sharks were dead last in the Pacific in 2023-2024 without Celebrini and now they're still dead last. How did he "carry" them again when they didn't move at all? I guess carrying a team to last place has it's... merits?

This is such an unintended shot at everyone else in Montréal that was either brought in or having career or resurgent years.

San Jose has removed a number one goaltender, their top D man and two of their top 6 forwards, yet are on pace to have a 35 goal increase for and a 25 goal decrease against. Montreal’s numbers are basically on par with last season (234 goals for vs 232 last season and 250 vs 280 against last season with 4 to play)