Calder Watch : 2024-25 Season

[Sendhelp2Anaheim]

I do feel that if Macklin wins it over Lane Hutson at this point it would be stolen.

I have zero doubt that without Lane Hutson the Habs do not make the playoff. He did not benefit the supporting cast. He elevated the supporting cast. He could 100% be a case for the Hart trophy and Norris too.

He has been clutch and his improvement defensively is quite noticeable since the beginning of the year.

As for Macklin, I do believe the position in the standing of both team should matter. Not to diminish is achievements but when you are out of the playoff you play with no pressure and the Sharks are exactly doing that right now. They don't care if they lose a game and are more focused on scoring more goals.

I will not even touch the historical and record breaking talk that have been discussed ad nauseam or the position.

That is said for the Calder Trophy.

For projecting their whole career that a whole different story and I would lean toward Macklin and I predict him an HoF career with multiple stanley cups.

He should also win the Adams…. Coaching staff sucked before Lane showed up, and he deserves all the credit.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Celebrini: way, way, way better than Hutson defensively.

Always nice when someone makes it clear they haven't watched Hutson play lately.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

He should also win the Adams…. Coaching staff sucked before Lane showed up, and he deserves all the credit.

It’ll be ok man

 

[Sendhelp2Anaheim]

It’ll be ok man

Keep that energy when celebrini win it…. I don’t want to have to troll a habs fan meltdown

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Disclaimer: I still think Hutson should win it as of today, and so did JFresh fairly recently.

That said, on EV defense, As of April 7 according to JFresh model, Hutson was 19%ile in EV defense, guessing as compared to the league population of defensemen.



Meanwhile, Celebrini was 50%ile as of January, I'm guessing in comparison to all forwards. I don't have access to his updated card.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SanJoseSharks/s/D9cNXOOgGX

Not that this should be used as proof of defensive capability but Celebrini is currently sitting at a 6% EV Defence

 

[MrLunatik]

As for Macklin, I do believe the position in the standing of both team should matter. Not to diminish is achievements but when you are out of the playoff you play with no pressure and the Sharks are exactly doing that right now. They don't care if they lose a game and are more focused on scoring more goals.

It's fine thinking Hutson will or should win... but this is just a really shitty take... you think players should be punished for being drafted by shittier teams? That is absolutely f***ing ridiculous.

This is an individual award, not a team award.

What you should be asking is what would these players seasons look like in different situations...

You put Hutson on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, how would his numbers look? What would Celebrini's numbers look like if he played on a PP with Suzuki, Laine and Caufield? What would Wolf's season look like on a team with more than 3 NHL calibre defensemen and a team that could score?

IMO a case can be made to vote for any of Hutson, Celebrini or Wolf...

 

[crazynaiman]

All good points
A little too little too late in my personal opinion but if macklin can score 10 more points to finish out the season who knows. Still think it’s hutsons to lose.

I always like to use the analogy of money in polls or hockey decisions where people argue whether it’s close or not.

Its like comparing two gifts, one person gives you $1000 and the other gives you $1050. Both are awesome but everyone would say the $1050 gift is better.

That’s a good analogy — but let’s be honest: if someone earns $1000 working 12-hour shifts in a dirty factory with no AC or lunch breaks, and someone else earns $1050 in an air-conditioned office with a support team and free coffee…
you start to respect the $1000 a little more.

Same thing here. One guy’s doing it in chaos, the other in structure. Context is still king.

In a 8-5 rout of the rangers i was fully expecting to see michkov with the 5 point night. Nope 1 assist and -1. Bad coaching?

Celebrini dropped 5. Talking about who didn’t is a strange way to argue he shouldn’t get credit for it.

I do find it a bit ironic however that you posted this writeup after celebrinis 5 point night.

The reasons that habs fans are so confident is that a lot of arguments can be made in hutsons favour totally ignoring his historical statistical season.

Its not like he’s this complimentary player on a team that scored 4 goals per game that had 3 or 4 one hundred point players on it.

Its been a fun season, celebrini fans have a lot to be excited about and they can certainly make a case for their guy. But hutson would win it this year if celebrini scored 85 points.


Because context does matter

True, I did write it after a 5-point night. That’s called “timing.”
The irony isn’t in making a case after a 5-point night — it’s in pretending that 66 games and 62 points didn’t exist before it.

You’re absolutely right — context does matter.
That’s exactly why people are still talking about an 18-year-old center leading a bottom-feeder in scoring, playing tough minutes, and breaking records… even after a historic rookie D-man drops a hell of a season.
That is context. For both of them. And that’s what makes this race interesting — not over.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

It's fine thinking Hutson will or should win... but this is just a really shitty take... you think players should be punished for being drafted by shittier teams? That is absolutely f***ing ridiculous.

This is an individual award, not a team award.

What you should be asking is what would these players seasons look like in different situations...

You put Hutson on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, how would his numbers look? What would Celebrini's numbers look like if he played on a PP with Suzuki, Laine and Caufield? What would Wolf's season look like on a team with more than 3 NHL calibre defensemen and a team that could score?

IMO a case can be made to vote for any of Hutson, Celebrini or Wolf...

Not to mention that poster thinks the Sharks are focused on "scoring more" and don't care if they lose games. They're still NHL players, if you don't think Celebrini and the rest of the team are trying to win you're wrong. They simply don't have the talent to win...they're still giving it their all every game.

 

[Grinner]

It's still not evidence of anything pother than people are putting more money on some names than others. And let's not pretend like Habs fans haven't made this thread completely f***ing unbearable the last couple days, as per usual.


Cool. Most defensemen worry about stopping goals before scoring them and there is half as many dressed ever night... forwards on the other hand most of them are trying to score before worrying about the defensive side of the game. Comparing ranks between positions is about as useful as the people posting betting odds... it doesn't mean shit

He's not scoring a lot if goals though

 

[Stewie Griffin]

That’s a good analogy — but let’s be honest: if someone earns $1000 working 12-hour shifts in a dirty factory with no AC or lunch breaks

That's the best metaphor I've ever seen of playing for the 2024-25 San Jose Sharks

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

5 point night for the haters

I don't think Celebrini has any haters haha

What a night for the lad

 

[Frank Drebin]

It's fine thinking Hutson will or should win... but this is just a really shitty take... you think players should be punished for being drafted by shittier teams? That is absolutely f***ing ridiculous.

This is an individual award, not a team award.

What you should be asking is what would these players seasons look like in different situations...

You put Hutson on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, how would his numbers look? What would Celebrini's numbers look like if he played on a PP with Suzuki, Laine and Caufield? What would Wolf's season look like on a team with more than 3 NHL calibre defensemen and a team that could score?

IMO a case can be made to vote for any of Hutson, Celebrini or Wolf...

One thing I've realized about the Calder trophy is that its kind of like the Conn Smythe, in a way. Not everyone has an equal chance of winning it, and some players have a much, much greater chance of success just because of the teams they play for, or the situation they found themselves in.

Hutson has the advantage of being a bit older (although 20/21 is still very very young to be a top pairing D in the NHL), playing with better players that compliment his style. Drop a 20 year old Macklin Celebrini on this current Montreal Canadiens and he probably scores 100 points.

All that said, you can't use the advantage that Hutson has against him. And you can't give Celebrini credit for things he didn't do, or hasn't done yet.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

That’s a good analogy — but let’s be honest: if someone earns $1000 working 12-hour shifts in a dirty factory with no AC or lunch breaks, and someone else earns $1050 in an air-conditioned office with a support team and free coffee…
you start to respect the $1000 a little more.

Same thing here. One guy’s doing it in chaos, the other in structure. Context is still king.

Celebrini dropped 5. Talking about who didn’t is a strange way to argue he shouldn’t get credit for it.

True, I did write it after a 5-point night. That’s called “timing.”
The irony isn’t in making a case after a 5-point night — it’s in pretending that 66 games and 62 points didn’t exist before it.

You’re absolutely right — context does matter.
That’s exactly why people are still talking about an 18-year-old center leading a bottom-feeder in scoring, playing tough minutes, and breaking records… even after a historic rookie D-man drops a hell of a season.
That is context. For both of them. And that’s what makes this race interesting — not over.

I get the analogy you're making, but it's not like Montreal is some world class team that Hutson is walking on to, they finished bottom 5 3 years in a row and were 2nd last in the league at the start of December before Hutson really found his game and got moved to PP1.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Celebrini dropped 5. Talking about who didn’t is a strange way to argue he shouldn’t get credit for it.

That was just a random shot from me at the obnoxious cult of Michkov. Had nothing to do with Celebrini or Hutson.

 

[Artaud]

As good as Celebrini was yesterday, I thought Will Smith was more impressive. He could've been in the conversation if he started the year as good as he's playing now.

If the Sharks land Schaefer they are beyond set. They have the brightest future in the league.

 

[MrLunatik]

He's not scoring a lot if goals though

I mean if you are going to be pedantic... so will I...

he's not preventing many goals either...

 

[MrLunatik]

I don't think Celebrini has any haters haha

What a night for the lad

you need to re-read this thread... several of your brethren have done nothing but yank down their trousers and shit on him

 

[Stewie Griffin]

As good as Celebrini was yesterday, I thought Will Smith was more impressive. He could've been in the conversation if he started the year as good as he's playing now.

If the Sharks land Schaefer they are beyond set. They have the brightest future in the league.

Smith, oddly enough, has been amazing since the Sharks traded away Granlund. Him and Celebrini have been playing excellent when paired together. It's too bad the other 3 lines can barely score, none of the 3 D pairings can stop a play, and Georgiev is the best goalie they have...

 

[Frank Drebin]

I get the analogy you're making, but it's not like Montreal is some world class team that Hutson is walking on to, they finished bottom 5 3 years in a row and were 2nd last in the league at the start of December before Hutson really found his game and got moved to PP1.

Hutson singlehandedly took a small Pennsylvania paper company and turned it into a fortune 500 company in a matter of months. Does that not count for something?

 

[MrLunatik]

One thing I've realized about the Calder trophy is that its kind of like the Conn Smythe, in a way. Not everyone has an equal chance of winning it, and some players have a much, much greater chance of success just because of the teams they play for.

Hutson has the advantage of being a bit older (although 20/21 is still very very young to be a top pairing D in the NHL), playing with better players that compliment his style. Drop a 20 year old Macklin Celebrini on this current Montreal Canadiens and he probably scores 100 points.

All that said, you can't use the advantage that Hutson has against him. And you can't give Celebrini credit for things he didn't do, or hasn't done yet.

Just because things aren't done that way, doesn't mean they shouldn't. Sometimes things need to be looked at in a vacuum as well.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

you need to re-read this thread... several of your brethren have done nothing but yank down their trousers and shit on him

Yeah but its the same 3 emotional biased posters shitting on Michkov and taking digs at Celibrini in retaliation to the troll hutson posts.

Most people in here , habs fans included , are fawning over him. But a few rotten apples destroy the whole batch no doubt , it is what it is

 

[Frank Drebin]

Just because things aren't done that way, doesn't mean they shouldn't. Sometimes things need to be looked at in a vacuum as well.

The thing is, no matter how you want to look at it, you cant ignore Hutsons season. You can't take away from what hes done. Whatever context you want to apply to Celebrini, the same can be done for Hutson.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Hutson will win, he's had the best rookie season. It really doesn't matter that he is 2 draft years older.

But Celebrini will have the best carrier of all the rookies.

I think both are pretty clear.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Hutson will win, he's had the best rookie season. It really doesn't matter that he is 2 draft years older.

But Celebrini will have the best carrier of all the rookies.

I think both are pretty clear.

Celebrini is going to have an awesome career. So will Hutson.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Hutson will win, he's had the best rookie season. It really doesn't matter that he is 2 draft years older.

But Celebrini will have the best carrier of all the rookies.

I think both are pretty clear.

I think Celebrini certainly should but I think people also have to learn to stop assuming Hutson's limits considering the improvements he continues to make