Prospect Info: C/RW Matthew Savoie, 9th Overall, 2022 NHL Draft - Traded to Moose Jaw 1/4/24

[joshjull]

1. wasnt savoie supposed to have a spot last season and his injury is what opened the door for benson?

He was certainly the favorite once they chose not to look outside for Quinn’s replacement. But camp was still going to be a battle between youngsters.

2. wouldnt surprise me if kulich was the piece moved in the hunt for the 3c

Adams said he was looking for a 4C who was good on draws, good defensively and can PK. I don’t think that would cost us Kulich.

3. also wouldnt be surprised if rosen was involved in a deal for a 4/3c that gives them flexibility to run krebs up and down the lineup

I hope you’re right that they’re looking to get two bottom 6 centers. But there is little to indicate thats the case.

They already “freed up” Krebs to be the 3C by trading Mitts. I don’t know why they would be worried about “freeing him up” to play anywhere else.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Benson started the season strong and finished the season really well, but between Christmas and the trade deadline there were a lot of nights where he probably would have been better off playing in Rochester. I think the pacing of NHL games and the demanding schedule caught up with him. He's a fantastic young player, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have used some time in the A in his first pro season if it were possible.

I never said Benson was given anything. My point is that I think it would be wise to not expect Savoie to be a difference maker in the NHL this season, and that sometime in the AHL will be beneficial to him in the long run.

People get so defensive around here when you try to suggest that kids would benefit by developing more and not be rushed to the NHL the second they’re able to play there.

 

[joshjull]

I wonder how long he'll be down in Rochester. Obviously, points aren't everything. But being over over 2 PPG in the WHL is pretty rarified air. Last year, just 2 players pulled that off. 1 was Connor Bedard. And last night, the other player (Stankoven) had the second most EV ice time on a team that won a game in the Western Conference final.

If Stankhoven is any guide, it would be a little over half a season in the AHL.

 

[joshjull]

I am gonna let preseason decide that. Why would you deprive a prospect who shows he is ready to be in the NHL?

It will depend on how Adams goes about addressing his desire to have a bottom 6 thats tougher to play against. There may not be spots for the youngsters to start the season.

 

[Krieger Bot]

It will depend on how Adams goes about addressing his desire to have a bottom 6 thats tougher to play against. There may not be spots for the youngsters to start the season.

I'm very curious to see how Adams handles the bottom six. I hope he's successful in morphing it into a heavy, hard to play against unit. To me, it feels like the simplest way to change the team's culture/identity.

But he has 7 forwards on the roster who likely aren't suited to playing that kind of role (Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, and Skinner). Skinner is the only one of those forwards he'd probably be happy to move. But I don't know if he's movable even with retention. And I don't know if it makes sense to buy Skinner out just yet given our plentiful cap space.

If they can't move Skinner, Adams and Ruff have some tough choices to make. Do they bench him? See if one of the 7 forwards I listed can play on a heavy third line? Or do they run with a more offensively oriented third line by calling up a kid or 2 to round it out?

It feels like the last option is the path of least resistance. But I hope Adams is more active in trying to change the complexion of the team.

 

[Beerz]

Savoie did not play a single preseason game against NHL competition. He missed all of training camp. He wasn't close or far from making the team.

 

[OkimLom]

I am gonna let preseason decide that. Why would you deprive a prospect who shows he is ready to be in the NHL?

Because I’d want a little more proof than a small timeframe like the preseason to show he’s ready. Also, I’d rather have my “potential” top 6 prospects getting the qualities minutes and more opportunities to show they could play those roles in the minors way before giving him a role in a bottom 6 spot on the main roster and watch him develop into a bottom 6 player because that’s what his line needs him to play as (it’s part of the reason why Girgensons ended up where he did, and it’s happening with Krebs).

That’s not to say I don’t want to see him up at all, because I understand injuries happen and opportunities will come up with injuries.

Let Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, and Wahlberg run the top 6 in Rochester if they show they can. There’s plenty of responsibility that can be thrusted onto guys like Rosen and Kulich that they need to go through if we are to develop these guys fully.

IMO, there shouldn’t be statistical benchmarks we want to see from players in their development, but “phase” benchmarks that we should be making decisions on. Kulich’s goals are fine, but is there more to tap into regarding his play or role? Could we use him at the center position? Okay, he’s got a NHL shot, but his defensive game needs some work and I’d like to see him with a more rounded playmaking game. Let’s work on those areas of his game, and maybe grow his leadership capabilities/confidence before bringing him up full time. He’s a first round pick, let’s make sure we get the most out of him and not just have him turn into another Oloffsson where people fell in love with his shot and the rest of his game went to hell.

I’d rather have as many mistakes and “learning experiences” being done in the minors than being done at the NHL main roster level, seeing as that level should be the main objective and where we should be competitive instead of using it as a development spot. And yes, I know, players don’t stop developing at the NHL level, but the quickness we send these players to the main roster at, is a factor of why we are in the mess we are in.

Personally, I would have an internal policy of at least two years in the minors for all prospects if they’ve shown to be good enough to be in Rochester. One year to get acclimated into being a Pro and learning the Sabres system/roles, and another year to show if you can be a leader in said system and take on fuller/more responsibilities.

 

[Beerz]

Because I’d want a little more proof than a small timeframe like the preseason to show he’s ready. Also, I’d rather have my “potential” top 6 prospects getting the qualities minutes and more opportunities to show they could play those roles in the minors way before giving him a role in a bottom 6 spot on the main roster and watch him develop into a bottom 6 player because that’s what his line needs him to play as (it’s part of the reason why Girgensons ended up where he did, and it’s happening with Krebs).

That’s not to say I don’t want to see him up at all, because I understand injuries happen and opportunities will come up with injuries.

Let Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, and Wahlberg run the top 6 in Rochester if they show they can. There’s plenty of responsibility that can be thrusted onto guys like Rosen and Kulich that they need to go through if we are to develop these guys fully.

IMO, there shouldn’t be statistical benchmarks we want to see from players in their development, but “phase” benchmarks that we should be making decisions on. Kulich’s goals are fine, but is there more to tap into regarding his play or role? Could we use him at the center position? Okay, he’s got a NHL shot, but his defensive game needs some work and I’d like to see him with a more rounded playmaking game. Let’s work on those areas of his game, and maybe grow his leadership capabilities/confidence before bringing him up full time. He’s a first round pick, let’s make sure we get the most out of him and not just have him turn into another Oloffsson where people fell in love with his shot and the rest of his game went to hell.

I’d rather have as many mistakes and “learning experiences” being done in the minors than being done at the NHL main roster level, seeing as that level should be the main objective and where we should be competitive instead of using it as a development spot. And yes, I know, players don’t stop developing at the NHL level, but the quickness we send these players to the main roster at, is a factor of why we are in the mess we are in.

Personally, I would have an internal policy of at least two years in the minors for all prospects if they’ve shown to be good enough to be in Rochester. One year to get acclimated into being a Pro and learning the Sabres system/roles, and another year to show if you can be a leader in said system and take on fuller/more responsibilities.

Plus if you wait for preseason the roster is pretty much set.. would be difficult to go out and get players if prospects show they are not ready.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

He was certainly the favorite once they chose not to look outside for Quinn’s replacement. But camp was still going to be a battle between youngsters.

Adams said he was looking for a 4C who was good on draws, good defensively and can PK. I don’t think that would cost us Kulich.

I hope you’re right that they’re looking to get two bottom 6 centers. But there is little to indicate thats the case.

They already “freed up” Krebs to be the 3C by trading Mitts. I don’t know why they would be worried about “freeing him up” to play anywhere else.

I don’t think they’ll go after 2 centers because of Krebs. I just think they’re going after 1 and there’s too many prospects ready to graduate. Kulich for. A 4c is terrible value which is why I didn’t say 4c. But if you told me the Sabres were trading mitts, Kulich and pick 2nd/3rd is what I would have expected coming back. And finally by ‘freeing up krebs’ I meant to bury his ass on the fourth when he isn’t cutting it trying to replace mitts. I was trying to make it sound like they had a plan for him.

 

[Dingo44]

People get so defensive around here when you try to suggest that kids would benefit by developing more and not be rushed to the NHL the second they’re able to play there.

Has Benson's development been hurt by spending all of last year in the NHL instead of playing in the AHL? Which wasn't an option, by the way. Benson either played in the NHL or the WHL. And if Benson got returned to the WHL, then he was in the WHL unless there was an emergency recall due to injury.

 

[OkimLom]

Has Benson's development been hurt by spending all of last year in the NHL instead of playing in the AHL? Which wasn't an option, by the way. Benson either played in the NHL or the WHL. And if Benson got returned to the WHL, then he was in the WHL unless there was an emergency recall due to injury.

not sure yet, but I’d question how much of his play was his pure talent/IQ vs the result of any coaching/development processing. There’s still a ton of offensive potential in the kid that wasn’t there at the NHL level, but if that doesn’t shine through at any point, then I’d say it did, but we won’t know that until we look at a larger perspective of his career.

 

[OkimLom]

Plus if you wait for preseason the roster is pretty much set.. would be difficult to go out and get players if prospects show they are not ready.

You can get a good sense of who is ready for the NHL for the next season from the previous season. Any progress that a player makes between end of the season to the next season isn’t going to be ruined if the player has to show that progress for a season.

Savoie, may be or may not be ready for the NHL level, but I’d rather actually see where he’s at for the level before the NHL before I need to make that decision.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Has Benson's development been hurt by spending all of last year in the NHL instead of playing in the AHL? Which wasn't an option, by the way. Benson either played in the NHL or the WHL. And if Benson got returned to the WHL, then he was in the WHL unless there was an emergency recall due to injury.

It may not have hurt him but I sure don't think it was the best path for him. It may prove to have hurt him in the long run, but it's too early to tell.

And I don't think he helped the team more than an accomplished, experienced NHL player would have in his spot.

Again, people need to have patience with the kid. Look at how defensive you are just to suggest that you have a modicum of patience with a teenager.

 

[Dingo44]

It may not have hurt him but I sure don't think it was the best path for him. It may prove to have hurt him in the long run, but it's too early to tell.

And I don't think he helped the team more than an accomplished, experienced NHL player would have in his spot.

Again, people need to have patience with the kid. Look at how defensive you are just to suggest that you have a modicum of patience with a teenager.

It's not defensive to point out when you disagree and the facts don't back up what you're saying. If Benson didn't earn it and they put him in the lineup anyway then fine. But they didn't - he earned the spot based on his play. I don't know what accomplished, experienced NHL players in the Sabres system would have been better in his spot but the kid even when he wasn't putting up points was helping maintain possession and was a solid contributor on the penalty kill.

There is no one right way to develop a player. Kulich, Savoie, Ostlund, and Rosén were all better served in lower leagues. The Sabres even sent Levi down when it was apparent he needed to practice and play a lot more there. But again, Benson never looked so out of place in the NHL that he ever seemed in danger of being returned to the WHL. It's his play - not his age, not his draft position, not the absence of alternatives - that kept him on the Sabres all season long.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

It may not have hurt him but I sure don't think it was the best path for him. It may prove to have hurt him in the long run, but it's too early to tell.

And I don't think he helped the team more than an accomplished, experienced NHL player would have in his spot.

Again, people need to have patience with the kid. Look at how defensive you are just to suggest that you have a modicum of patience with a teenager.

Really? He was the only Sabres player with above 50% xGF and Corsi the last 10 games of the season when we were fighting for playoff life.

Benson just had the 19th-best 18-year-old season since the 2006 lockout, and go look at who’s on that list.

How is it possible that you don’t think he contributed to the team more than a plug or another replacement level vet player? Not only did he, but by advanced stats he was actually one of the better players.

 

[Dingo44]

Really? He was the only Sabres player with above 50% xGF and Corsi the last 10 games of the season when we were fighting for playoff life.

Benson just had the 19th-best 18-year-old season since the 2006 lockout, and go look at who’s on that list.

How is it possible that you don’t think he contributed to the team more than a plug or another replacement level vet player? Not only did he, but by advanced stats he was actually one of the better players.

Exactly. By that argument we should have returned Benson and kept Jost in the NHL all season just because Jost was more "experienced" - though I can't think of one game Jost outplayed Benson.

 

[Krieger Bot]

People get so defensive around here when you try to suggest that kids would benefit by developing more and not be rushed to the NHL the second they’re able to play there.

I agree that some fans can get a little too excited about young players. And I definitely understand Sabres fans being leery about promoting guys too soon, given the number of prospects we've rushed over the years.

That said, I also think the calls to slow cook prospects can sometimes be reflexive, and not always appropriate for the prospect being discussed. I mean, it wouldn't necessarily be rushing Savoie if he played a significant amount of time in the NHL this year. He's a top 10 pick going into his D+3 season. 7 of the top 10 from 2021 played a lot in the NHL this past year. They weren't all rushed. Hell, I think it's pretty debatable whether Savoie's skills were better developed by dominating a bunch of kids with learner's permits this past year, than they would have been learning how to play against men in the NHL.

Moreover, I think the calls for him to play multiple years in the AHL are pretty conservative. Could that end up being the right approach for Savoie? Sure. But it would be unusual for a top 10 pick to spend 4 full seasons in juniors/AHL before getting regular playing time in the NHL. That's typically reserved for prospects that are struggling or have a lower draft pedigree. For instance, none of the top 10 from the 2020 draft spent a significant amount of time in the AHL this year. Spending a few months in the AHL, and then making his debut later in the season (assuming his time in the AHL goes well) feels like a more appropriate path.

Adams is in a tough spot. The team simultaneously needs to become more veteran heavy, physical, and defensive. But he also has a bunch of prospects that are about ready to break through. In an ideal universe, he would find a way to package some of those prospects up for a Brady Tkachuk or Joel Eriksson Ek (if Minnesota decides to blow it up). But if he fails to do that, he's going to have some tough decisions to make.

 

[toddkaz]

Because I’d want a little more proof than a small timeframe like the preseason to show he’s ready. Also, I’d rather have my “potential” top 6 prospects getting the qualities minutes and more opportunities to show they could play those roles in the minors way before giving him a role in a bottom 6 spot on the main roster and watch him develop into a bottom 6 player because that’s what his line needs him to play as (it’s part of the reason why Girgensons ended up where he did, and it’s happening with Krebs).

That’s not to say I don’t want to see him up at all, because I understand injuries happen and opportunities will come up with injuries.

Let Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, and Wahlberg run the top 6 in Rochester if they show they can. There’s plenty of responsibility that can be thrusted onto guys like Rosen and Kulich that they need to go through if we are to develop these guys fully.

IMO, there shouldn’t be statistical benchmarks we want to see from players in their development, but “phase” benchmarks that we should be making decisions on. Kulich’s goals are fine, but is there more to tap into regarding his play or role? Could we use him at the center position? Okay, he’s got a NHL shot, but his defensive game needs some work and I’d like to see him with a more rounded playmaking game. Let’s work on those areas of his game, and maybe grow his leadership capabilities/confidence before bringing him up full time. He’s a first round pick, let’s make sure we get the most out of him and not just have him turn into another Oloffsson where people fell in love with his shot and the rest of his game went to hell.

I’d rather have as many mistakes and “learning experiences” being done in the minors than being done at the NHL main roster level, seeing as that level should be the main objective and where we should be competitive instead of using it as a development spot. And yes, I know, players don’t stop developing at the NHL level, but the quickness we send these players to the main roster at, is a factor of why we are in the mess we are in.

Personally, I would have an internal policy of at least two years in the minors for all prospects if they’ve shown to be good enough to be in Rochester. One year to get acclimated into being a Pro and learning the Sabres system/roles, and another year to show if you can be a leader in said system and take on fuller/more responsibilities.

So in theory when you say a little more proof you wouldn't allow any drafted player to play in the NHL in their draft year. Interesting.

So Dahlin and Power would have been in the minors along with McDavid and Eichel.

 

[OkimLom]

So in theory when you say a little more proof you wouldn't allow any drafted player to play in the NHL in their draft year. Interesting.

So Dahlin and Power would have been in the minors along with McDavid and Eichel.

Power absolutely would be in the minors, or at least spent the next two seasons in college.

Dahlin was already playing against men in a pro league (which to me would’ve been like the AHL, so there was some proof there.) I would sure as hell would’ve structured the roster so he wouldn’t need to play the minutes he did though.

Eichel and McDavid would be exceptions to my rule, but I think you already knew that.

 

[Chainshot]

The only absolute about player development is that there is no singular path.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Exactly. By that argument we should have returned Benson and kept Jost in the NHL all season just because Jost was more "experienced" - though I can't think of one game Jost outplayed Benson.

Jost doesn’t even belong in the NHL - you act like it’s unreasonable to expect a GM to do the bare minimum that his job requires.

We weren’t at the cap - a decent GM would simply have acquired an NHL-caliber player who it’s better than Jost. You grade Adams on the biggest curve of all time.

The only absolute about player development is that there is no singular path.

For Sabres fans the rule is that he belongs in the NHL the second it doesn’t hurt his development

 

[Chainshot]

Jost doesn’t even belong in the NHL - you act like it’s unreasonable to expect a GM to do the bare minimum that his job requires.

We weren’t at the cap - a decent GM would simply have acquired an NHL-caliber player who it’s better than Jost. You grade Adams on the biggest curve of all time.


For Sabres fans the rule is that he belongs in the NHL the second it doesn’t hurt his development

Some guys are ready. It's rare but it does happen. And some need time. I would think unless Savoie has a spectacular camp and pre-season, that he goes to Rochester. Now... if he rips up the Amerks in a fashion that makes it hard to ignore, then perhaps he jumps others to become a recall or pushes into the lineup when injury strikes.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

It may not have hurt him but I sure don't think it was the best path for him. It may prove to have hurt him in the long run, but it's too early to tell.

And I don't think he helped the team more than an accomplished, experienced NHL player would have in his spot.

Again, people need to have patience with the kid. Look at how defensive you are just to suggest that you have a modicum of patience with a teenager.

We burned a year for no reason. He was good for his age without question but felt pointless

 

[Irie]

Has Benson's development been hurt by spending all of last year in the NHL instead of playing in the AHL? Which wasn't an option, by the way. Benson either played in the NHL or the WHL. And if Benson got returned to the WHL, then he was in the WHL unless there was an emergency recall due to injury.

Don't get me wrong, I never said Benson was mishandled by the Sabres. His compete and IQ are so high for his age that another year in junior may have been more detrimental than productive, but I still feel some time in the AHL as an incremental step where he learned to dominate at that level before starting his full-time NHL journey would have been better for him, but since the CHL agreement takes that option off the table, choices are limited.

The question is, "would the player Benson will eventually turn into ultimately have been better off with some time in the AHL?" is strictly hypothetical, because it is not an option in reality. My gut tells me that his offensive would have hit a higher ceiling, but maybe his long-term two-way game was better served being exposed to the toughest competition on the planet at such a young age. There is no way to know, but the one thing I am certain of is that the CHL transfer agreement is a disservice to the players.

 

[OkimLom]

The only absolute about player development is that there is no singular path.

I would agree that there are different paths for development, but I do think there should be a standard an organization expects to me for their prospects to play at the NHL level.

I think that Buffalo’s standards have been quite laughable and while I may represent the conservative end of the path and those standards, I don’t think they’ve made sound judgements with the process.