C Mitchell Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015, 4th, TOR) IV

[X66]

Barzal was highly touted in the August tournament in 2014. Please stop with putting words in my mouth by changing the narrative to Mar 2015. We all know and it has been stated several times that Barzal was hurt last year which likely caused him to drop in rankings from the eariler point he was rated higher than Marner was before the start of last season.

Here is the source you asked for. Bob Mckenzie, he's a pretty good reliable source most would agree.

http://www.tsn.ca/2014-15-nhl-pre-season-draft-rankings-1.93188

Notice who was ranked 6th, 7th and 9th before the start of last season.

The point I was confirming in reply to the poster that said the same thing.

Hold up, lol.

So going on this argument, which is a poor one, let us take a look at your posting history with Nylander.

You've said in the Alex Nylander thread:

Alexander Nylander is already ranked higher than William was in Bob Mckenzie's pre-season rankings at #6, just behind Matthew Tkachuk at #5 in a very strong Matthews/Chychrun draft. Nylander was 11th in his mid-term rankings in 2014. Scouts are very high on Alexander it would seem. From what I have seen, I would not disagree.

Even though you were wrong here, because Nylander was ranked in the top 3 for Bob's pre-season ranking, but that's not the point.

I love how you look at Nylander's Mid-term ranking, but not Barzal's, why is that? Oh yeah, we know why lol.

Then you have posts like this

Watching Ehlers tonight, I am certain he is going to be one of the top 3 players from this draft class. He is a very impressive player. Relentless, hockey sense, skill, work ethic, speed, mature for his age. He's got it all to be an elite player in the NHL.

Ehlers is a winger, that you have top 3, A WINGER, I thought you didn't value wingers that high...lol. Assuming you have Ekblad number one, You had Ehlers ahead of most of these guys, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Bennett, Nylander and Larkin, all centers.

The gig is up.

 

[X66]

Spoken like a true pro Leafs fan. I like the 2015 crop of players. There are many players in this draft that will go onto being great players for their teams. The point is other than Mc-Eichel. One shouldn't be surprised if players drafted later can have equal or better impact than players picked earlier. All the players I have mentioned, are good players. It all comes down to how one values players. I like many scouts value the Center position more than the Wing, when all things are equal. As a Leafs fan you should understand this, having not have had one good top quality 6 Center since Sundin retired.

As usual, the deflection.

Answer the original question, or do't reply at all.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Lol.

Find me any scout, GM or coach that would take Barzal ahead of Marner, today.

I don't think there is a single ranking taken since they were drafted that has Barzal ahead of Marner.

I am very, very, VERY happy that you are not a scout of the Leafs.

Turn the clock back to right after their drafts and see if you can find a scout, GM or coach that would take Claude giroux over Jordan Staal. Or Pacioretty over Gagner. Or Eberle, Carlson and Karlsson over Bogosian Filatov and Schenn. There are so many examples..

The draft isn't an exact science, as we've seen time and time again. Marner is one of my favorite prospects, but I've followed prospects long enough to know that anything can happen.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Hold up, lol.

So going on this argument, which is a poor one, let us take a look at your posting history with Nylander.

You've said in the Alex Nylander thread:



Even though you were wrong here, because Nylander was ranked in the top 3 for Bob's pre-season ranking, but that's not the point.

I love how you look at Nylander's Mid-term ranking, but not Barzal's, why is that? Oh yeah, we know why lol.

Then you have posts like this



Ehlers is a winger, that you have top 3, A WINGER, I thought you didn't value wingers that high...lol. Assuming you have Ekblad number one, You had Ehlers ahead of most of these guys, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Bennett, Nylander and Larkin, all centers.

The gig is up.

Does this post have anything to do with Marner?

 

[HarrisonFord]

Turn the clock back to right after their drafts and see if you can find a scout, GM or coach that would take Claude giroux over Jordan Staal. Or Pacioretty over Gagner. Or Eberle, Carlson and Karlsson over Bogosian Filatov and Schenn. There are so many examples..

The draft isn't an exact science, as we've seen time and time again. Marner is one of my favorite prospects, but I've followed prospects long enough to know that anything can happen.

Anything can happen when we talk in hypotheticals. But what's actually more likely to happen?

 

[Brock Radunske]

Barzal was highly touted in the August tournament in 2014. Please stop with putting words in my mouth by changing the narrative to Mar 2015. We all know and it has been stated several times that Barzal was hurt last year which likely caused him to drop in rankings from the eariler point he was rated higher than Marner was before the start of last season.

Here is the source you asked for. Bob Mckenzie, he's a pretty good reliable source most would agree.

http://www.tsn.ca/2014-15-nhl-pre-season-draft-rankings-1.93188

Notice who was ranked 6th, 7th and 9th before the start of last season.

The point I was confirming in reply to the poster that said the same thing.

So the one source you could find is a pre-season draft ranking?

Haha, nicely done.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Anything can happen when we talk in hypotheticals. But what's actually more likely to happen?

I think its more likely that Marner ends up better. I like him more than Barzal, but at the same time, I wont hold it against anyone if they think Barzal will be better. He's a fantastic prospect as well.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Turn the clock back to right after their drafts and see if you can find a scout, GM or coach that would take Claude giroux over Jordan Staal. Or Pacioretty over Gagner. Or Eberle, Carlson and Karlsson over Bogosian Filatov and Schenn. There are so many examples..

The draft isn't an exact science, as we've seen time and time again. Marner is one of my favorite prospects, but I've followed prospects long enough to know that anything can happen.

Since you are a Wings fan I will say it for you. Dylan Larkin is a great example of a player that was picked mid first rd and probably ending up as one of the top players picked in the 2014 draft. Especially when he moves to Center one day.

Draft position is just that, it enhances your chances of being a good player but it does not guarantee you being a better player just due to draft position. Think Getzlaf and Perry dispel this notion as well amongst many examples that can be cited. As well as Yakupov on the reverse end of that.

 

[Menzinger]

Spoken like a true pro Leafs fan. I like the 2015 crop of players. There are many players in this draft that will go onto being great players for their teams. The point is other than Mc-Eichel. One shouldn't be surprised if players drafted later can have equal or better impact than players picked earlier. All the players I have mentioned, are good players. It all comes down to how one values players. I like many scouts value the Center position more than the Wing, when all things are equal. As a Leafs fan you should understand this, having not have had one good top quality 6 Center since Sundin retired.

Barzal is no closer to being an NHL centre than Marner is.

And position matters only so much - Bozak is a centre yet 10/10 people would take wingers like Patrick Kane over him without thinking twice.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Since you are a Wings fan I will say it for you. Dylan Larkin is a great example of a player that was picked mid first rd and probably ending up as one of the top players picked in the 2014 draft. Especially when he moves to Center one day.

Draft position is just that, it enhances your chances of being a good player but it does not guarantee you being a better player just due to draft position. Think Getzlaf and Perry dispel this notion as well amongst many examples that can be cited. As well as Yakupov on the reverse end of that.

So you focus on the fewer exceptions to the rule, yet ignore the fact that it is exactly that: the exception to the rule.

For every Getzlaf and Perry situation, there's 50 examples to the contrary. For every Yakupov, there's 20 examples to the contrary.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Guys, lets drop the insults.. There's no need for that. Its OK to disagree without attacking each other.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Since you are a Wings fan I will say it for you. Dylan Larkin is a great example of a player that was picked mid first rd and probably ending up as one of the top players picked in the 2014 draft. Especially when he moves to Center one day.

Draft position is just that, it enhances your chances of being a good player but it does not guarantee you being a better player just due to draft position. Think Getzlaf and Perry dispel this notion as well amongst many examples that can be cited. As well as Yakupov on the reverse end of that.

This is why I don't speak in absolutes when it comes to prospects. I have my opinion, but I know damn well I could be dead wrong in the end. Being a high pick means you have a higher chance of success, but that's pretty much it. we see surprises and disappointments in every draft.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Is it really that far fetched to think Barzal can end up being a better NHL player than Marner? I like Marner a little more than Barzal personally, but thats not really the point. "pro scouts" end up being wrong about something in every draft, so I dont think its unrealistic to think it can happen again.

I put my money on marner, but anything can happen with prospects, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Barzal ends up better.

It's not that far-fetched. Some Leaf fans are just being silly, is all.

Marner WAS ranked ahead of Barzal, but there are a zillion examples of players who were picked later in their drafts, that went on to be better than guys picked ahead of them. No biggie.

But I also notice that "The Mentalist" always seems to be involved in these little bickering problems.

Interesting.

 

[bobbyt 91*]

I think its more likely that Marner ends up better. I like him more than Barzal, but at the same time, I wont hold it against anyone if they think Barzal will be better. He's a fantastic prospect as well.

I don't think it has much to do with this particular opinion. It looks to be a pattern of being eloquently told to eat poop with a smile. Gotta give credit tho, they seem to have found a perfect line to tow for non infractible flaming

 

[tfantasy]

Barzal is no closer to being an NHL centre than Marner is.

I'd much rather have Marner but again just my opinion.

 

[The Podium]

Barzal was highly touted in the August tournament in 2014. Please stop with putting words in my mouth by changing the narrative to Mar 2015. We all know and it has been stated several times that Barzal was hurt last year which likely caused him to drop in rankings from the eariler point he was rated higher than Marner was before the start of last season.

Here is the source you asked for. Bob Mckenzie, he's a pretty good reliable source most would agree.

http://www.tsn.ca/2014-15-nhl-pre-season-draft-rankings-1.93188

Notice who was ranked 6th, 7th and 9th before the start of last season.

The point I was confirming in reply to the poster that said the same thing.

Injury is a BS excuse. It didn't hurt either Rielly or Galchenyuk in their draft year.

Hold up, lol.

So going on this argument, which is a poor one, let us take a look at your posting history with Nylander.

You've said in the Alex Nylander thread:



Even though you were wrong here, because Nylander was ranked in the top 3 for Bob's pre-season ranking, but that's not the point.

I love how you look at Nylander's Mid-term ranking, but not Barzal's, why is that? Oh yeah, we know why lol.

Then you have posts like this



Ehlers is a winger, that you have top 3, A WINGER, I thought you didn't value wingers that high...lol. Assuming you have Ekblad number one, You had Ehlers ahead of most of these guys, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Bennett, Nylander and Larkin, all centers.

The gig is up.

Great post

 

[93LEAFS]

Barzal was highly touted in the August tournament in 2014. Please stop with putting words in my mouth by changing the narrative to Mar 2015. We all know and it has been stated several times that Barzal was hurt last year which likely caused him to drop in rankings from the eariler point he was rated higher than Marner was before the start of last season.

Here is the source you asked for. Bob Mckenzie, he's a pretty good reliable source most would agree.

http://www.tsn.ca/2014-15-nhl-pre-season-draft-rankings-1.93188

Notice who was ranked 6th, 7th and 9th before the start of last season.

The point I was confirming in reply to the poster that said the same thing.

And Marner was ahead of him in his final rankings, after that glorious WJC U-18 performance you talk about. Lets use rankings before Marner put up 2ppg and when both Roy's, Kylington, Bittner and Greenway were top 15. Injuries don't kill your stock, see Galy and Rielly in 2012, unless his medical got him flagged, which would be a huge worry. I'm not changing the narrative, you are by putting up a list that completely ignores the 2014-15 season. So my guess is from your response you couldn't find one list that had Barzal above Marner that factored in any of the 2014-15 season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Guys, lets drop the insults.. There's no need for that. Its OK to disagree without attacking each other.

Thanks for this, and I agree 100%. There are no need for insults. For I have not insulted anyone for their opinions here. However, there seems to be some that want to attack posters for seeing things differently rather than defending their positions or respecting others opinions.

But again I will state Marner is a good prospect. He has the look of a good top 6 winger that will up points in the NHL. He brings a certain skill set to the NHL that will be easily quantified in points/production.

Other than that, as we alluded to. Does this make him the best prospect other named Eichel or Mcdavid. I am not so sure. This was a deep draft crop not unlike 2014. This is why I also do not like posters throwing absolutes around that Marner is better than player X.

He may be, he may not be. Only time will tell. And Barzal is just one player that may be better. It could be Connor or Rantanen. Who knows? Only time will tell.

 

[Kelly]

Since you are a Wings fan I will say it for you. Dylan Larkin is a great example of a player that was picked mid first rd and probably ending up as one of the top players picked in the 2014 draft. Especially when he moves to Center one day.

Draft position is just that, it enhances your chances of being a good player but it does not guarantee you being a better player just due to draft position. Think Getzlaf and Perry dispel this notion as well amongst many examples that can be cited. As well as Yakupov on the reverse end of that.

It's the exception not the rule.

Also making the NHL is a marathon and not a sprint -- just because Larkin made it first doesn't mean he's going to have the better career then the players picked ahead of him. I mean he was drafted in 2014, way too early to be speaking in absolutes. Possibility that Larkin never repeats his rookie season, sophomore slump, or his play stagnates (not saying this is likely, but it does happen). Career trajectory are not always linear.

At this moment Marner is the better prospect, I've watched him lots this year and his edge work, on ice awareness, and hands are just off the charts. I have no doubts that Marner is going to be a very special player for us -- which doesn't mean that Barzal won't be for the nyi, and nothing is concrete but I'd put my money on Marner becoming the more impactful player.

It's just an odd comparison though and I'm not really sure how Barzal is relevant to Marner?

Off topic (but actually not)

I was at the Knights game last night and Marner had a sub par game in comparison to normal Mitch Marner. Got a little too cute at times and would cough it up (one that led to a Rangers goal). Still the best Knights player though and I'm really enjoying how tenacious he is to get the puck, you can smell how bad he wants it. He had a great goal from a feed from Tckchuk that put game within 1 but Sherwood took an undisiplined slashing penalty in which the Rangers scored and put the last nail in the coffin.

 

[Kelly]

Thanks for this, and I agree 100%. There are no need for insults. For I have not insulted anyone for their opinions here. However, there seems to be some that want to attack posters for seeing things differently rather than defending their positions or respecting others opinions.

But again I will state Marner is a good prospect. He has the look of a good top 6 winger that will up points in the NHL. He brings a certain skill set to the NHL that will be easily quantified in points/production.

Other than that, as we alluded to. Does this make him the best prospect other named Eichel or Mcdavid. I am not so sure. This was a deep draft crop not unlike 2014. This is why I also do not like posters throwing absolutes around that Marner is better than player X.

He may be, he may not be. Only time will tell. And Barzal is just one player that may be better. It could be Connor or Rantanen. Who knows? Only time will tell.

and Dmytro Timashov could end up the better player than Barzal. We could do this all night -- but at this point Marner is the better prospect and a majority of people who've watched these two players enough would agree.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's the exception not the rule.

Also making the NHL is a marathon and not a sprint -- just because Larkin made it first doesn't mean he's going to have the better career then the players picked ahead of him. I mean he was drafted in 2014, way too early to be speaking in absolutes. Possibility that Larkin never repeats his rookie season, sophomore slump, or his play stagnates (not saying this is likely, but it does happen). Career trajectory are not always linear.

At this moment Marner is the better prospect, I've watched him lots this year and his edge work, on ice awareness, and hands are just off the charts. I have no doubts that Marner is going to be a very special player for us -- which doesn't mean that Barzal won't be for the nyi, and nothing is concrete but I'd put my money on Marner becoming the more impactful player.

It's just an odd comparison though and I'm not really sure how Barzal is relevant to Marner?

Off topic (but actually not)

I was at the Knights game last night and Marner had a sub par game in comparison to normal Mitch Marner. Got a little too cute at times and would cough it up (one that led to a Rangers goal). Still the best Knights player though and I'm really enjoying how tenacious he is to get the puck, you can smell how bad he wants it. He had a great goal from a feed from Tckchuk that put game within 1 but Sherwood took an undisiplined slashing penalty in which the Rangers scored and put the last nail in the coffin.

93 Leafs mentioned Barzal, so we got on the comparison/topic. As for your assessment of Marner's game last night. It is welcomed. He didn't have his best game last night as I posted. I will be at the Steelheads game tomorrow. I will get a close look at he Knights. Though I am actually looking fwd to seeing Alexander Nylander play since he is draft eilgible.

 

[Stand Witness]

If you guys go back far enough it was suppose to be the McDavid/Barzal draft.

Clearly things change. Marner is the better prospect now without a doubt.

 

[Holymakinaw]

If you guys go back far enough it was suppose to be the McDavid/Barzal draft.

Clearly things change. Marner is the better prospect now without a doubt.

For sure. One was selected 4th overall, and one 16th overall. For a reason. It's not a debate.

Having said that........after McDavid and Eichel, the next 4-5 selections could have been completely switched and it wouldn't have been the end of the world. The difference between Strome, Marner, Hanifin, Zacha and maybe Provorov was/is MINIMAL, and any could have been picked in the top-5 IMO.

Beyond that is the "next tier" of prospects, IMO.

 

[Amadeus]

Marner reminds me of a slightly more dynamic Zach Parise.

He's got potential to be nominated for multiple Selke trophies.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner reminds me of a slightly more dynamic Zach Parise.

He's got potential to be nominated for multiple Selke trophies.

This is getting to be too much...