C Michael Rasmussen - Tri-City Americans, WHL (2017, 9th, DET)

[Frk It]

He's doing well, but he's an unbelievably boring player. He has zero flash to his game at all. Not really a big shot, not really a flashy stickhandler, not a creative playmaker, not really a physical presence, not an amazing skater. He's just there and offense happens around him, even though it seems like he has little to do with it.

His wrist shot is pretty good, he doesn't only score garbage goals. Not sure what you consider physical presence, but he protects the puck well and is a load on the puck. I think his coach would probably disagree with your last sentence quite a bit.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

His wrist shot is pretty good, he doesn't only score garbage goals. Not sure what you consider physical presence, but he protects the puck well and is a load on the puck. I think his coach would probably disagree with your last sentence quite a bit.

I said "seems." But here's what I mean: he gets a piece of a shot while standing in front of the net. It doesn't feel like he made that play, but it's his goal. A puck pops out of nowhere during a scramble in front of the net, and Rasmussen pushes it in. It's his goal, but he didn't really drive that play. And an awful lot of his assists are him passing off to somebody else, who then makes a nice read or play. He got the assist, but he didn't make that goal happen.

Rasmussen enables other players to make big plays more than he makes them himself, I think. Which is useful, but incredibly unsexy. If you care more about the entertainment than competition, he's a very disappointing player. At least for the top ten.

And for as good as people say Rasmussen's wrister is, he rarely scores with it. The proof of the pudding is in the scoring, or something.

Oh, and for the physical thing, I haven't seen him show a mean streak. If he's not going to entertain me with skill, he could at least throw some big hits or intimidate somebody physically.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I said "seems." But here's what I mean: he gets a piece of a shot while standing in front of the net. It doesn't feel like he made that play, but it's his goal. A puck pops out of nowhere during a scramble in front of the net, and Rasmussen pushes it in. It's his goal, but he didn't really drive that play. And an awful lot of his assists are him passing off to somebody else, who then makes a nice read or play. He got the assist, but he didn't make that goal happen.

It's a neat ability to lead your team in points-per-game while somehow not being a guy who makes things happen. Imagine if he ever learns to actually drive play?

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

It's a neat ability to lead your team in points-per-game while somehow not being a guy who makes things happen. Imagine if he ever learns to actually drive play?

You didn't read my post. He's a good player, but he doesn't seem like he drives play. He drives play in a very subtle way that is not very entertaining. It's like... imagine Abdelkader, but with less physicality and aggressiveness. Who wants to watch that? Yeah, he can make stuff happen in front of the net at ES and on the PP. He crashes the net sometimes. It's a nice boxscore to look at the next day, but it's not a fun game to watch.

Counterpoint: imagine how much more entertaining he would be if he ever learned to drive the play. Like if he could improve his stickhandling skills to the point where he can control the puck in traffic, that would do a lot. Or what if he could shoot from range? That would be awesome. But the reality is that he's just okay at stickhandling and not much of a threat from a distance.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You didn't read my post. He's a good player, but he doesn't seem like he drives play. He drives play in a very subtle way that is not very entertaining. It's like... imagine Abdelkader, but with less physicality and aggressiveness. Who wants to watch that? Yeah, he can make stuff happen in front of the net at ES and on the PP. He crashes the net sometimes. It's a nice boxscore to look at the next day, but it's not a fun game to watch.

Counterpoint: imagine how much more entertaining he would be if he ever learned to drive the play. Like if he could improve his stickhandling skills to the point where he can control the puck in traffic, that would do a lot.

He can control the puck in traffic, when you're 6'6'' you simply don't need to be twisting and turning and dipsy-doodling as much as you do if you're 5'10''. Not every player needs to be a dangle machine for it to be entertaining to watch.

Stuff like this:




Can be entertaining too. And put a Rasmussen next to some skilled wingers and maybe it's the perfect combination? Ultimately if he lives up to potential I doubt anyone is going to complain that he's not dangling enough. "Driving play" is a somewhat vague term, it really doesn't require being able to to stickhandle through traffic or making insane skill plays.

 

[newfy]

You didn't read my post. He's a good player, but he doesn't seem like he drives play. He drives play in a very subtle way that is not very entertaining. It's like... imagine Abdelkader, but with less physicality and aggressiveness. Who wants to watch that? Yeah, he can make stuff happen in front of the net at ES and on the PP. He crashes the net sometimes. It's a nice boxscore to look at the next day, but it's not a fun game to watch.

Counterpoint: imagine how much more entertaining he would be if he ever learned to drive the play. Like if he could improve his stickhandling skills to the point where he can control the puck in traffic, that would do a lot. Or what if he could shoot from range? That would be awesome. But the reality is that he's just okay at stickhandling and not much of a threat from a distance.

The fact that you compare him to Abdelkader is pretty ridiculous, because his offensive talent is WAY above that at the same age. At the time of the draft Abldekader was more of just an agressive forechecker with a little skill. Rasmussen is a huge, skilled centerman. Even in preseason with the wings you could tell hes more talented offensively than that and thats when he hadnt played a game for 6 months and was freshly drafted and Abdelkader was drafted 13 years ago.

Like has been said before he doesnt need to be Patrick Kane with the puck to be a really good player, hes 6'6 he doesnt need to dangle like that. Its like saying imagine if Lucic had Datsyuks hands, ya that would be awesome but he also woulda been a 1st overall pick. I have high doubts youve even watched any tri city games this year so we're really talking the same hockey games I've seen. Top prospects, preseason and subway series. He didnt look like the player youre describing at all in those games.

For a guy who never drives the play, hes a junior captain at a young age,on pace for 55 goals and 107 points in a full season while needing surgery for half of it. Are all those points coming on tips and passes that someone elde makes a great play after to set up a goal? Seems like a stretch to me

 

[Lays]

There are at least a dozen guys drafted between him and 30th that look like they're on a better path than he is.

Robert Thomas and Tolvanen alone are easily better forwards.

Chytil and Necas as well with clear advantages, the rest aren't clear enough

 

[Pavels Dog]

Chytil and Necas as well with clear advantages, the rest aren't clear enough

Pretty difficult to compare players in different leagues, just seems like people are ignoring Rasmussen’s good performance but making a big deal of others. Likely caused by a lot of bias against Ras since before the draft.

 

[newfy]

Pretty difficult to compare players in different leagues, just seems like people are ignoring Rasmussen’s good performance but making a big deal of others. Likely caused by a lot of bias against Ras since before the draft.

Seriously lol.

Robert Thomas is a great player but youre comparing 2 different leagues. Once Thomas got traded from the team stacked with high level NHL talent, hes not exactly lighting the league on fire either.

Tolvanen didnt have some amazing WJC but is having a very good year in the KHL. But how do you compare those leagues? Especially enough to say hes doing better than the 2 way center on pace for 55 goals and 107 points playing hurt and got drafted 20 spots higher

Necas. Great world junior but slowed down against the better competition. Was drafted close to Rasmussen. Is he really playing so good to say hes for sure on a different level right now?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Necas. Great world junior but slowed down against the better competition. Was drafted close to Rasmussen. Is he really playing so good to say hes for sure on a different level right now?

Maybe there are people with a great insight into the Czech league who can put things into perspective but his stats don’t look too impressive. Not even top 30 in PPG in a league that’s dominated by guys like Martin Erat? Even Jiri Hudler had over 1.5PPG in that league in his d+1.
4 assists in 18 games also doesn’t reflect great on a supposed playmaking center.

I’m gonna go ahead and say those who rate Necas way ahead are doing it 99% based on the WJC.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Maybe there are people with a great insight into the Czech league who can put things into perspective but his stats don’t look too impressive. Not even top 30 in PPG in a league that’s dominated by guys like Martin Erat? Even Jiri Hudler had over 1.5PPG in that league in his d+1.
4 assists in 18 games also doesn’t reflect great on a supposed playmaking center.

I’m gonna go ahead and say those who rate Necas way ahead are doing it 99% based on the WJC.

You do realize that playing in a men's league is a lot different from playing against teenagers, right?

It sounds like you want to tear Necas down not because you have any actual insight into his game or development, but simply because people like him better than Rasmussen. Have you even seen him play?

 

[Dominance]

You do realize that playing in a men's league is a lot different from playing against teenagers, right?

It sounds like you want to tear Necas down not because you have any actual insight into his game or development, but simply because people like him better than Rasmussen. Have you even seen him play?

You really didn’t address what he said...

 

[newfy]

You do realize that playing in a men's league is a lot different from playing against teenagers, right?

It sounds like you want to tear Necas down not because you have any actual insight into his game or development, but simply because people like him better than Rasmussen. Have you even seen him play?

Yep it is different. So how do you compare a guy with 4 assists so far on the season to a guy on pace for 55 goals and 107 points in his junior league that were drafted around the same time as each other? Have you seen either of them play? Have you seen Necas in the Czech league to be able to say he is for sure better right now? Thats the part of this thread I'm having trouble understanding

I'm not even saying Rasmussen is better than these guys. I just want to hear the logic of the people in here saying guys like Necas and Thomas are clearly better. I wouldnt be surprised if either of them turned out better, but to have them on clear different levels after the season Rasmussen is putting together seems out there to me

 

[Pavels Dog]

You do realize that playing in a men's league is a lot different from playing against teenagers, right?

It sounds like you want to tear Necas down not because you have any actual insight into his game or development, but simply because people like him better than Rasmussen. Have you even seen him play?

Tear down? Because in a re-draft I'd keep him at the exact same spot he was drafted? The burden of evidence is on those who think these guys such as Necas, Thomas, Chytil etc. are on much better trajectories and should go ahead of Ras in a redraft right now. I'm not saying 0,66 PPG in the czech league is terrible, I'm saying that's not enough production in a men's league for me to say "yeah, this kid is tracking much better than the guy scoring 1.5PPG in juniors". How do you compare such different situations? He was great at the WJC but how do you compare against a guy that wasn't there? And even if Ras had been there how much can you value a short tournament like that? Dylan Larkin was much better at the WJCs than Jack Eichel. Mattias Tedenby was fantastic there. Things happen that don't necessarily predict the future.

In NHL preseason, Rasmussen had 4+0 in 5 games. Necas had 0+1 in 6 games, Chytil had 1+2 in 4 games, Thomas had 2+0 in 4 games. Meaningful? Not really, but in pretty much the only situation where they are directly comparable, Rasmussen outperformed those other guys.

 

[kabidjan18]

A statistical reality: not every forward on a line can have the puck on their stick the most on their line.

An impressive anomaly: the athlete who can control a game without even having the puck on his stick.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

How do you compare such different situations? He was great at the WJC but how do you compare against a guy that wasn't there?

In NHL preseason...

It depends on why you think Rasmussen wasn't there. Some, myself included, think he wasn't invited because he had mediocre production for a guy whose selling point is supposed to be how many goals he can create on the PP. And before somebody says it: raw PPG is meaningless if you don't adjust it for league scoring. Rasmussen was very low compared to other 1st line forwards.

In today's NHL, I think the most important qualities are skating, stickhandling, and passing. Necas wins 2/3 of those categories. You might say, "Well, Rasmussen is unique and brings things others don't," but I'd argue that if that sort of skillset was so useful and in demand, we'd have more Rasmussens already. Teams would be climbing over each other to draft the next big net-front presence in the top 10. But they're not.

But if you want to really compare them, you have to watch them against their peers. And the WJC counts for that. Necas was dominant at a higher level of competition than Rasmussen has even gotten to play at.

 

[izlez]

In today's NHL, I think the most important qualities are skating, stickhandling, and passing.

And of course, above all: Entertainment value!

 

[Pavels Dog]

It depends on why you think Rasmussen wasn't there. Some, myself included, think he wasn't invited because he had mediocre production for a guy whose selling point is supposed to be how many goals he can create on the PP. And before somebody says it: raw PPG is meaningless if you don't adjust it for league scoring. Rasmussen was very low compared to other 1st line forwards.

In today's NHL, I think the most important qualities are skating, stickhandling, and passing. Necas wins 2/3 of those categories. You might say, "Well, Rasmussen is unique and brings things others don't," but I'd argue that if that sort of skillset was so useful and in demand, we'd have more Rasmussens already. Teams would be climbing over each other to draft the next big net-front presence in the top 10. But they're not.

But if you want to really compare them, you have to watch them against their peers. And the WJC counts for that. Necas was dominant at a higher level of competition than Rasmussen has even gotten to play at.

He literally had surgery during the WJC. Now we can't know if that was the reason he wasn't there, but basically he couldn't be there regardless. And not being part of Team Canada isn't exactly a huge knock on a guy. Victor Hedman wasn't selected for Team Sweden at the Olympics, I guess he's not very good either...

The rest you're saying is kinda silly tbh. Rasmussen is a much better goalscorer than Necas, but I guess it doesn't matter because passing is somehow more important? Really? And for a guy whose biggest selling point is supposed to be his ability to be a playmaking center, 4 assists on the year doesn't reflect well on Necas. But Rasmussen definitely is all about the powerplay with his 22/15 split in ES/PP production..

 

[raymond23]

It depends on why you think Rasmussen wasn't there. Some, myself included, think he wasn't invited because he had mediocre production for a guy whose selling point is supposed to be how many goals he can create on the PP. And before somebody says it: raw PPG is meaningless if you don't adjust it for league scoring. Rasmussen was very low compared to other 1st line forwards.

In today's NHL, I think the most important qualities are skating, stickhandling, and passing. Necas wins 2/3 of those categories. You might say, "Well, Rasmussen is unique and brings things others don't," but I'd argue that if that sort of skillset was so useful and in demand, we'd have more Rasmussens already. Teams would be climbing over each other to draft the next big net-front presence in the top 10. But they're not.

But if you want to really compare them, you have to watch them against their peers. And the WJC counts for that. Necas was dominant at a higher level of competition than Rasmussen has even gotten to play at.

NHL preseason?

 

[HisNoodliness]

Yep it is different. So how do you compare a guy with 4 assists so far on the season to a guy on pace for 55 goals and 107 points in his junior league that were drafted around the same time as each other? Have you seen either of them play? Have you seen Necas in the Czech league to be able to say he is for sure better right now? Thats the part of this thread I'm having trouble understanding

I'm not even saying Rasmussen is better than these guys. I just want to hear the logic of the people in here saying guys like Necas and Thomas are clearly better. I wouldnt be surprised if either of them turned out better, but to have them on clear different levels after the season Rasmussen is putting together seems out there to me

When comparing different leagues you have to understand the full context. The WHL has extremely high scoring this year and his numbers aren't as impressive compared to his peers as the raw numbers. For Necas, it's very hard for young players to get top opportunities, minutes and then put up points in the Czech league. Even considering those the numbers fall in Rasmussen's favor. If you think Necas is better (I do), the argument has to center around their skills and how they project instead of stats.

Necas is a phenomenal skater, with great speed, agility and acceleration. He passes and sees the ice well, and can finish. He has good hands and a good shot, but neither are spectacular. He projects extremely well in the current NHL where speed and skill dominate.

Rasmussen seems to be showing more skill and ability this year, but many of the complaints from the time of the draft still worry me. He gets a lot of his production from the net front and is a man amongst boys in juniors. He won't be able to dominate the net front in the NHL as easily against larger competition. His skating is good for his size... But not particularly impressive overall (he did very well in the backwards skating at the combine). He has a good shot and soft hands in front but isn't great in either regard. His passing has come a long way, but isn't a strength.

If I had to condense the argument into a sentence it would be: "Martin Necas has exceptional skating compared to Rasmussen's exceptional size; both are good to great in other regards, but I think speed is more useful than size."

 

[lawrence]

Well it goes both ways. I can say necas lack of strength will hold him back from playing in the nhl. He’s fast, but he’s skinny right now, Michael is huge, he’s considered fast for his height, he’s strong on the puck, if anything Rasmussen is probably more nhl ready then necas.

Also Rasmussen is not an off the board pick at all, it sure what the deal is here and why so many non wings fans are so hard on him.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

NHL preseason?

Tell that to the NHL preseason superstars we see every year who flame out immediately and get booted back to the minors. Say what you will about the WJC sample size, but at least those players are trying.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Well it goes both ways. I can say necas lack of strength will hold him back from playing in the nhl. He’s fast, but he’s skinny right now, Michael is huge, he’s considered fast for his height, he’s strong on the puck, if anything Rasmussen is probably more nhl ready then necas.

Also Rasmussen is not an off the board pick at all, it sure what the deal is here and why so many non wings fans are so hard on him.

He is definitely more NHL ready. Rasmussen was NHL ready draft day IMO. Necas was always going to need 1 year in the Czech leagues and another year or two in the AHL. You're right that he's too light, but putting on weight is much easier than improving your skating and developing an offensive game away from the net. Like you (and everyone says) Rasmussen is a good skater for his size. He is a very average skater overall (besides backwards). His skating is only impressive in the context of him being huge and thus expected to be a bad skater.

The problem is, I think he has low upside, 3C + PP (maybe 2C but I'd be very surprised) which is useful but not what you want from a top 10 pick. Draft your third liners in the 2nd-7th rounds. I think Necas has top line upside. He probably rounds out as more of a second liner, but he could be a 1C. I just don't see that potential in Rasmussen's game.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

He literally had surgery during the WJC.


The rest you're saying is kinda silly tbh. Rasmussen is a much better goalscorer than Necas, but I guess it doesn't matter because passing is somehow more important? Really?

But what kind of goals are we talking about? The answer: dirty goals within 2 feet of the net. You can find guys to do that as UFAs, and they're not uncommon beyond the first round (see Holmstrom, Cleary, and Abdelkader). But it's tough to find the player talented enough to make the play with the puck in the first place, before the puck ever gets down low. That's Necas. The Wings passed up high skill players because they wanted to upgrade on Abdelkader, basically. Despite the fact the team, farm team, and prospect pool only have 1 or 2 skilled centers *combined*.

And Rasmussen didn't have surgery to repair an injury, but to clean up scar tissue. Not the same thing, and not something that explains his poor production.

 

[lawrence]

He is definitely more NHL ready. Rasmussen was NHL ready draft day IMO. Necas was always going to need 1 year in the Czech leagues and another year or two in the AHL. You're right that he's too light, but putting on weight is much easier than improving your skating and developing an offensive game away from the net. Like you (and everyone says) Rasmussen is a good skater for his size. He is a very average skater overall (besides backwards). His skating is only impressive in the context of him being huge and thus expected to be a bad skater.

The problem is, I think he has low upside, 3C + PP (maybe 2C but I'd be very surprised) which is useful but not what you want from a top 10 pick. Draft your third liners in the 2nd-7th rounds. I think Necas has top line upside. He probably rounds out as more of a second liner, but he could be a 1C. I just don't see that potential in Rasmussen's game.

The thing is, his skating is fine thought. He’s not slow and considered by virtually all scouting sources that his skating and speed is good for his size. Like cmon speed is great but it’s not everything.