C Matthew Savoie - Moose Jaw Warriors, WHL (2022, 9th, BUF, traded to EDM) - PART 2

[McFlyingV]

You do know St. Albert is basically a suburb of Edmonton right? Pretty much everyone from Edmonton knew who this kid was when he was 12 years old.

 

[LeProspector]

You do know St. Albert is basically a suburb of Edmonton right? Pretty much everyone from Edmonton knew who this kid was when he was 12 years old.

and? What’s your point? Who he was at 12 doesn’t matter at 20.

 

[McFlyingV]

and? What’s your point? Who he was at 12 doesn’t matter at 20.

I meant nothing more by it. You just seemed to have no idea that he's essentially from Edmonton. A lot of people from Edmonton have followed him for a long time and continued to through his WHL years. This is obvious given your quote "the only Savoie you knew before yeaterday was Carter. Why would I care what you think?".

I think it's just funny that you think you have a grasp on McLeod's potential, while thinking people from Edmonton just found out who Savoie is. I'm pretty sure you've never watched McLeod play more than a handful of games and couldn't even outline his strengths and flaws outside of "he skates really fast".

 

[LeProspector]

I meant nothing more by it. You just seemed to have no idea that he's essentially from Edmonton. A lot of people from Edmonton have followed him for a long time and continued to through his WHL years. This is obvious given your quote "the only Savoie you knew before yeaterday was Carter. Why would I care what you think?".

I think it's just funny that you think you have a grasp on McLeod's potential, while thinking people from Edmonton just found out who Savoie is. I'm pretty sure you've never watched McLeod play more than a handful of games and couldn't even outline his strengths and flaws outside of "he skates really fast".

For the most part, I don’t care where a player is born when looking at them as a prospect. I don’t know where Connor McDavid was born, and I sure as hell don’t know where Savoie was born, I just know he’s from the west.

When I look at a player, I evaluate what they do on the ice. Not what hospital they were born in. For Savoie, I see a junior scorer that peaked early and hasn’t added anything of substance to his game since being drafted. I see a player that might be able to carve out a role as a be a top-6 power play scorer, but not much else, maybe Mike Hoffman as a ceiling. Which is okay, but he’s not a guy I want to try to win with.

 

[Chainshot]

His motor? Have you watched McLeod forecheck or try to exit pucks from the wall in the d zone? Pretend to block shots? He is an elite skater with a decent stick


Yup. All he needs to be is a guy who can score 50+ points on a line with McDrai while he is on ELC. Far less pressure than being viewed as a 9th overall franchise saver in Buff

He was never viewed as a franchise saver in Buffalo.

 

[Jumptheshark]

You do know St. Albert is basically a suburb of Edmonton right? Pretty much everyone from Edmonton knew who this kid was when he was 12 years old.

first thread on him on this site was when he was 13

 

[McFlyingV]

For the most part, I don’t care where a player is born when looking at them as a prospect. I don’t know where Connor McDavid was born, and I sure as hell don’t know where Savoie was born, I just know he’s from the west.

When I look at a player, I evaluate what they do on the ice. Not what hospital they were born in. For Savoie, I see a junior scorer that peaked early and hasn’t added anything of substance to his game since being drafted. I see a player that might be able to carve out a role as a be a top-6 power play scorer, but not much else, maybe Mike Hoffman as a ceiling. Which is okay, but he’s not a guy I want to try to win with.

Honestly Mike Hoffman wouldn't even be a poor outcome for the Oilers given the forward group they currently have to cover the deficiencies of a player like that. I think his upsides a little closer to Jordan Eberle who Oilers fans are very familiar with. Another undersized forward who had excellent offensive tools and a very underdeveloped board and defensive game when he broke into the NHL. Savoie is likely a better skater than Eberle though.

 

[LeProspector]

Honestly Mike Hoffman wouldn't even be a poor outcome for the Oilers given the forward group they currently have to cover the deficiencies of a player like that. I think his upsides a little closer to Jordan Eberle who Oilers fans are very familiar with. Another undersized forward who had excellent offensive tools and a very underdeveloped board and defensive game when he broke into the NHL. Savoie is likely a better skater than Eberle though.

I think that’s a reasonable outcome.

 

[Skolman]

Oiler fans setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect him in the NHL next year

Except the heavy majority don't expect him to be in the NHL next season, stop making stuff up.

 

[hamzarocks]

This could be the next Reinhart for Barzal esque trade

Seems really horrific for the Sabres

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I think the best drafting is about drafting a balance. Drafting only small skilled forwards like Buffalo or only big character guys like Ottawa isn't a good thing at all. But even then beyond all that, the most important thing is being able to attract free agents, trade well, etc. Las Vegas has never had a good prospect pool (Before anyone mentions it's because they're an expansion team, Seattle is also an expansion team and their prospect pool is leagues above Vegas's prospect pool at their peak), but they're still constantly dangerous.

 

[Chainshot]

I think the best drafting is about drafting a balance. Drafting only small skilled forwards like Buffalo or only big character guys like Ottawa isn't a good thing at all. But even then beyond all that, the most important thing is being able to attract free agents, trade well, etc. Las Vegas has never had a good prospect pool (Before anyone mentions it's because they're an expansion team, Seattle is also an expansion team and their prospect pool is leagues above Vegas's prospect pool at their peak), but they're still constantly dangerous.

Vegas used their prospects to fund their NHL acquisitions. If they have a prospect, it is likely that they will utilize that value to improve their roster rather than wait on a prospect timeline.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Friendly reminder this thread is to talk about the prospect not the trade. Continue:​

 

[Heldig]

Savoie is going to challenge for rookie of the year playing alongside McDavid and/or Draisatl.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

It’s absolutely hilarious to watch the backpedaling from some posters from May to now. Cant imagine what’s changed.

Oh right, he’s not your favourite team’s prospect anymore.

 

[Just Linda]

It’s absolutely hilarious to watch the backpedaling from some posters from May to now. Cant imagine what’s changed.

Oh right, he’s not your favourite team’s prospect anymore.

Really? It had nothing to do with Savoie?

From being unable to carry Wenatchee to not impressing at the WJC to playing as the 6th most impressive player on his team during the playoff run, the thing that made the people following him start to doubt him was the trade?

Other than the one guy who's just a negative nilly, the criticism Savoie is getting has been reasonable. I'm not seeing anyone, except that one irrational fella, saying he's a bust and he's going to be useless. I've seen some completely out to lunch takes that he's going to be far greater than he's capable of though.

The narrative on Savoie hasn't drastically changed in 48 hours. He's still well hyped due to draft position, pedigree/reputation from 5 years ago, skill level and the point production he gets. He's also got a lot of people who, while not doubting his ability to find a role in the show, doubt he'll ever be able to be a difference maker due to his obvious flaws.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Sabres management is so incompetent.

Either you admit Savoie sucks and that you dropped the ball and your scouts made a big mistake when you drafted him high in the 1st round just a few years ago.

... or you just suck at trading because you traded a high first rounder for a soft, dime a dozen 3rd liner.

Both don't look good.

Neither scenario seems plausible. More likely, Sabres have half a dozen Savoies either in the NHLor getting close.

What they don't have on the NHL roster are players like McLeod that have experience and are capable of playing harder minutes. (Having been to the Stanley Cup final doesn't hurt either).

Bill Zito was explaining this type of move in his press conference the other day. Sometimes trading a Maserati for an SUV makes sense if that's what your team needs.

 

[Skolman]

Really? It had nothing to do with Savoie?

From being unable to carry Wenatchee to not impressing at the WJC to playing as the 6th most impressive player on his team during the playoff run, the thing that made the people following him start to doubt him was the trade?

Other than the one guy who's just a negative nilly, the criticism Savoie is getting has been reasonable. I'm not seeing anyone, except that one irrational fella, saying he's a bust and he's going to be useless. I've seen some completely out to lunch takes that he's going to be far greater than he's capable of though.

The narrative on Savoie hasn't drastically changed in 48 hours. He's still well hyped due to draft position, pedigree/reputation from 5 years ago, skill level and the point production he gets. He's also got a lot of people who, while not doubting his ability to find a role in the show, doubt he'll ever be able to be a difference maker due to his obvious flaws.

Based on what?

You guys never said this until the minute he was traded

It's honestly comical the flip you guys have done on the player.

 

[suddeninterest]

Really? It had nothing to do with Savoie?

From being unable to carry Wenatchee to not impressing at the WJC to playing as the 6th most impressive player on his team during the playoff run, the thing that made the people following him start to doubt him was the trade?

Other than the one guy who's just a negative nilly, the criticism Savoie is getting has been reasonable. I'm not seeing anyone, except that one irrational fella, saying he's a bust and he's going to be useless. I've seen some completely out to lunch takes that he's going to be far greater than he's capable of though.

The narrative on Savoie hasn't drastically changed in 48 hours. He's still well hyped due to draft position, pedigree/reputation from 5 years ago, skill level and the point production he gets. He's also got a lot of people who, while not doubting his ability to find a role in the show, doubt he'll ever be able to be a difference maker due to his obvious flaws.

I stopped reading after that.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I stopped reading after that.

Dude was G/PG hahaha
I also stopped there too.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Really? It had nothing to do with Savoie?

From being unable to carry Wenatchee to not impressing at the WJC to playing as the 6th most impressive player on his team during the playoff run, the thing that made the people following him start to doubt him was the trade?

Other than the one guy who's just a negative nilly, the criticism Savoie is getting has been reasonable. I'm not seeing anyone, except that one irrational fella, saying he's a bust and he's going to be useless. I've seen some completely out to lunch takes that he's going to be far greater than he's capable of though.

The narrative on Savoie hasn't drastically changed in 48 hours. He's still well hyped due to draft position, pedigree/reputation from 5 years ago, skill level and the point production he gets. He's also got a lot of people who, while not doubting his ability to find a role in the show, doubt he'll ever be able to be a difference maker due to his obvious flaws.

Reputation from when he was 15?
People talk about Savoie like he’s 26. The dude is 20 and had a great year, if an unimpressive Memorial Cup, but he’s a huge reason they even got that far.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Based on what?

You guys never said this until the minute he was traded

It's honestly comical the flip you guys have done on the player.

Seriously all people have to do is go back a few pages in this thread. Complete 180 once he’s not Sabres property anymore.

 

[Dirty Dog]

His motor? Have you watched McLeod forecheck or try to exit pucks from the wall in the d zone? Pretend to block shots? He is an elite skater with a decent stick


Yup. All he needs to be is a guy who can score 50+ points on a line with McDrai while he is on ELC. Far less pressure than being viewed as a 9th overall franchise saver in Buff

Literally no one had him as a franchise saver for buffalo. He is nowhere near their top 5 forwards, or their top defensmen, or top goalies in value or importance.

But yes, I definitely see him as a 20-25 goal, 50 something point player in the NHL without McDavid. Hopefully he can stay healthy, as he’s got a fun toolset

Seriously all people have to do is go back a few pages in this thread. Complete 180 once he’s not Sabres property anymore.

Yea, most the people flipping are not Sabres fans. He’s still a very fun top prospect. Not an elite top-like talent in my opinion, but a good one so long as he can stay healthy. I don’t thinks a book or bust, or a player with a low floor

It’s absolutely hilarious to watch the backpedaling from some posters from May to now. Cant imagine what’s changed.

Oh right, he’s not your favourite team’s prospect anymore.

Those aren’t Sabres fans…

 

[Dirty Dog]

Based on what?

You guys never said this until the minute he was traded

It's honestly comical the flip you guys have done on the player.

Not a Sabres fan. While people always come out of the woodwork to troll trades, these posters hating on Savoie aren’t Sabres fans. It’s the same as people shitting all over McLeod just because he got traded. It’s just a few vocal goofballs

 

[Just Linda]

Based on what?

You guys never said this until the minute he was traded

It's honestly comical the flip you guys have done on the player.

Seriously all people have to do is go back a few pages in this thread. Complete 180 once he’s not Sabres property anymore.

Or you could actually go back a few pages and realize that people aren't doing a flip. Here's a couple posts I made, in this thread, from May. I also openly question Buffalo's plan with him.

These posts were made during the WHL playoffs. The first one at least was made because Savoie had just had yet another game where Kovacevic did the heavy lifting on his line and Savoie put up PP points. The Firkus/Yager/Calvert line was absolutely dominant that series, Savoie's line didn't look nearly as good.

The only counter argument I'm reading in this thread is 'yeah, but he puts up points'.

3 years post draft and I still feel he was a reach at #9.

He was more productive but less effective than Calvert. Firkus, Yager, and Kovacevic all were far more noticeable than him throughout the games. I felt he was probably 6th best player on his team.

Size isn't an impossible barrier to overcome but I haven't seen enough from Savioe to make me think he's going to overcome his. He isn't a lock to be a top 6 forward and he can't play a bottom 6 style game.

I'd love to know what Buffalo plans on doing with him.

I feel 3rd line centre would be playing away from his strengths. He's the type of guy who thrives in open ice but isn't the type to create it by himself.

Ideally he'd grow into a secondary scoring threat but I'm pretty old school, I want my third line to be one that you can role out in defensive zone faceoffs and that's not something I'd want to see Savoie put into. He can win board battles in the WHL but not in a way that's projectable at the NHL.

I believe that in order for an undersized player to make it at the next level, they have to be elusive. They have to be able to have some sneak in them. He's a quick player but he's not really slippery.

I think the biggest part is just projectable aspects of his game. He projects well offensively but I can't see him being able to control the centre of the ice. His cycle game isn't bottom 6 strong either, he really struggles with chip and chase hockey.

For me, he either develops as a second liner or he has to really transform his play.