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C/LW Samu Salminen - Denver NCAA (2021, 68th, NJD)

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Ippenator said:
This isn’t really as black and white as you claim. Just as an example this guy here:

Juho Rautanen at eliteprospects.com

And btw, wasn’t even close to as talented as a junior player as Salminen is.
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Sure one player has gotten a extended look in what 6 years?

I don't think Jokerit would willingly give Salminen a shot unless they had like 10 injuries in the roster, that's the diffenrence between Liiga clubs and Jokerit, Liiga clubs actually willingly play their juniors without being forced to by injuries..
 
JJTT said:
Sure one player has gotten a extended look in what 6 years?

I don't think Jokerit would willingly give Salminen a shot unless they had like 10 injuries in the roster, that's the diffenrence between Liiga clubs and Jokerit, Liiga clubs actually willingly play their juniors without being forced to by injuries..
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So how about this guy?

Eeli Tolvanen at eliteprospects.com

He was 18 when his previous season with Jokerit started. A junior player who was just good enough to get a shot to play for their KHL-team. Again, my point is just that it really isn’t as black and white as you seem to want to make it look like. Sure it’s probably quite unlikely that Salminen will this season play for Jokerit in the NHL, but I do disagree with you when you claim that no junior player will get a chance to play for the Jokerit KHL-team, no matter how good they are.
 
He seems to put up numbers everywhere he's played. What is his playstyle like, strength and weaknesses of his game etc?
 
wings5 said:
He seems to put up numbers everywhere he's played. What is his playstyle like, strength and weaknesses of his game etc?
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From what I’ve seen, he’s a fast, responsible, two-way playmaking center with a good wrist shot. Not any glaring issues that’ve stood out to me. One of my favorite forwards in the draft right now.
 
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alexislafreniere said:
From what I’ve seen, he’s a fast, responsible, two-way playmaking center with a good wrist shot. Not any glaring issues that’ve stood out to me. One of my favorite forwards in the draft right now.
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If he is a good skater to compliment his offensive skillet and no hockey IQ issues than I don't know how anyone can say he is not a projected first rounder as of now
 
wings5 said:
If he is a good skater to compliment his offensive skillet and no hockey IQ issues than I don't know how anyone can say he is not a projected first rounder as of now
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I'm not sure how fast a skater he is(though I haven't seen any games from this year(and all past viewings are online) . I've never seen him whiz across the ice in a way that grabs your attention, but I think that's in large part because that's just not how he plays the game. On the other hand, at no point have I watched a game and thought "If only Salminen wasn't so slow, that play would have worked or that battle would have been won". I think his anticipation at the junior level is far enough above his peers that he rarely needs to hurry, so he doesn't.

That being said, last year his strides appeared infrequent and short.

I think his biggest strength is hockey IQ. Regardless of the physical pace at which he plays, I think he processes the game very quickly.

Also, I remember his one-timer last year at the U17's, as being awful, but perhaps that's changed.

That being said, I don't think you can project him (or any other Finnish junior player) in the first until he gets sustained experience with men and does well, which means a loan to a Liiga team(I doubt Mestis will cut it). I think the only Finnish skater taken in the first round in the past decade without significant Liiga experience during his draft season was Henrik Borgstrom, and he was taken 23rd.
 
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LoveHateLeafs said:
That being said, I don't think you can project him (or any other Finnish junior player) in the first until he gets sustained experience with men and does well, which means a loan to a Liiga team(I doubt Mestis will cut it). I think the only Finnish skater taken in the first round in the past decade without significant Liiga experience during his draft season was Henrik Borgstrom, and he was taken 23rd.
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Yeah Jokerit being in the KHL makes things interesting . As top Finnish forwards rarely come to the CHL anymore, would be curious to see if Salminen makes a move to NCAA considering his older brother went that route.
 
wings5 said:
Yeah Jokerit being in the KHL makes things interesting . As top Finnish forwards rarely come to the CHL anymore, would be curious to see if Salminen makes a move to NCAA considering his older brother went that route.
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I really doubt that will happen. At least as long as the Corona situation in North America is clearly worse than in Finland.
 
Ippenator said:
I really doubt that will happen. At least as long as the Corona situation in North America is clearly worse than in Finland.
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You’re doubtful that NCAA hockey will be up and running by a this time next year ? Yes the COVID situation isn’t good now but I’m optimistic it will improve and next season will be running normally . With or without spectators is a different unknown though
 
wings5 said:
You’re doubtful that NCAA hockey will be up and running by a this time next year ? Yes the COVID situation isn’t good now but I’m optimistic it will improve and next season will be running normally . With or without spectators is a different unknown though
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That wasn’t really my point. What I meant was that as long as there is a difficult situation with Corona, I’m very doubtful that any young Finnish players are going to play in any other North American teams than the NHL teams. Simply for security reasons.

Although Corona is clearly affecting Finland too, the situation is still clearly better than in North America. I just doubt that young kids want to take the risk of staying in the area where the Corona is more out of control and also risk getting sick in a foreign country.

There would be no point in taking the risk to play for junior leagues or university leagues that aren’t at the same level as men’s Liiga is. If a kid is really talented there should be a pretty good chance to get to play with some Liiga team during this season.

I just don’t see any real benefits why Finnish young talented hockey players would take the risk in this situation, when they can have a realistic chance to play in a better level league in their home country. Maybe someone is even willing to take this kind of chance, but I really doubt even that.
 
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McDNicks17 said:
Seems to be off to a really good start in U20.

Think he ends up in the Liiga sometime soon?
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Problem is that Jokerit doesn't have a Liiga team so I don't know how they would find him a team. Also, I think all of the leagues in Finland have no stopped playing due to covid restrictions (can't arrange any events basically).
 
I think this player will surprisingly be picked earlier than where he's ranked, could well be the first Finn to get drafted. Main thing is that he has some great character attributes - captain material and all - but also his production so far has been incredible in u-20s. Of course, saying that he'll get drafted ahead of Aatu Räty might be jumping the gun but I think there likely will be a team interested in his size, character and of course the remarkable offensive production - this combination is very rare to come out of Finland.

Both Aatu Räty and Samu Tuomaala outshone him in the earlier levels of play but Salminen has been much stronger in tougher, older competition, which also gives him quite a steep trajectory.
 
ijuka said:
I think this player will surprisingly be picked earlier than where he's ranked, could well be the first Finn to get drafted.

Both Aatu Räty and Samu Tuomaala outshone him in the earlier levels of play but Salminen has been much stronger in tougher, older competition, which also gives him quite a steep trajectory.
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How has Salminen been ”much stronger in tougher, older competition”? He is yet to play against any competition over 20,yet to play in WJC etc. Räty already has a partial Liiga season under his belt, along with U20 WC tournament.
 
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OKR said:
How has Salminen been ”much stronger in tougher, older competition”? He is yet to play against any competition over 20,yet to play in WJC etc. Räty already has a partial Liiga season under his belt, along with U20 WC tournament.
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26 points in 17 games at the u-20 level, while Räty's at 7 in 8 this season and 21 in 30 last season. Räty also is quite a bit older and even Salminen's last season probably was stronger than Räty's current one.

Sure he's not played in Liiga but that's most likely because Jokerit doesn't have a Liiga team. And Räty himself wasn't even invited to u-20s so using that as a knock on Salminen is odd.

Räty's international accomplishments since the 17-18 season are very limited.
 
ijuka said:
26 points in 17 games at the u-20 level, while Räty's at 7 in 8 this season and 21 in 30 last season. Räty also is quite a bit older and even Salminen's last season probably was stronger than Räty's current one.

Sure he's not played in Liiga but that's most likely because Jokerit doesn't have a Liiga team. And Räty himself wasn't even invited to u-20s so using that as a knock on Salminen is odd.

Räty's international accomplishments since the 17-18 season are very limited.
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That’s odd? Let me tell you what is odd, the fact that you claim Salminen has played better against tougher and better competition, and that his last season was better than Räty’s, when the fact is that every year Räty has played in competition atleast a level above Salminen.

So you’re telling me U18 and u20 has tougher and better competition than Liiga? Because that’s the only competetion Salminen has played, to put that in comparison Räty played his last u18 game in 18-19 season, Salminen played them last season. And since Räty’s international accomplishments since the 17-18 season are limited, what are Salminen’s? He is yet to play those games.

Also you think 20 points in 23 Jr A games is better than 4 points in Liiga?
 
OKR said:
That’s odd? Let me tell you what is odd, the fact that you claim Salminen has played better against tougher and better competition, and that his last season was better than Räty’s, when the fact is that every year Räty has played in competition atleast a level above Salminen.

So you’re telling me U18 and u20 has tougher and better competition than Liiga? Because that’s the only competetion Salminen has played, to put that in comparison Räty played his last u18 game in 18-19 season, Salminen played them last season. And since Räty’s international accomplishments since the 17-18 season are limited, what are Salminen’s? He is yet to play those games.

Also you think 20 points in 23 Jr A games is better than 4 points in Liiga?
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At least in Finland, age groups tend to go by birth years, and Salminen is 03 while Räty is 02, so it's only logical that Salminen would be a year behind Räty every year. If we actually go via the accurate comparison of birth year to birth year, we see that Salminen's actually outperformed Räty in every age group in juniors for the past few years.

I'd get the Liiga argument if Räty had actually performed well in Liiga, but I wouldn't say that's the case. Essentially you're faulting Salminen for playing for an organization that doesn't have a Liiga team, which I don't find to be very fair. 3 points in 12 games - it's something, but hardly something I'd use as an argument FOR a player. Especially in the first round.

Even if we look at international performances, age group for age group, Salminen's performed better.
 
ijuka said:
At least in Finland, age groups tend to go by birth years, and Salminen is 03 while Räty is 02, so it's only logical that Salminen would be a year behind Räty every year. If we actually go via the accurate comparison of birth year to birth year, we see that Salminen's actually outperformed Räty in every age group in juniors for the past few years.

I'd get the Liiga argument if Räty had actually performed well in Liiga, but I wouldn't say that's the case. Essentially you're faulting Salminen for playing for an organization that doesn't have a Liiga team, which I don't find to be very fair. 3 points in 12 games - it's something, but hardly something I'd use as an argument FOR a player. Especially in the first round.

Even if we look at international performances, age group for age group, Salminen's performed better.
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You really couldn’t let your bias show more even if you tried tbh, Räty has points at two level that Salminen is yet to reach no matter why it is, so there is just simply zero leverage for your claim that Salminen has outperfomed Räty so far against tougher and better competition just because he is 165 days younger than Räty.
 
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