C Ivan Ryabkin - Muskegon, USHL (2025 Draft)

[Zine]

I minimized MHL by the very large number of teams (31), by a negative talent migration balance (no foreigners arrive, Russians leave) and a better American national level compared to the Russian level.

Those are secondary arguments, which are theoretical and not exact in terms of influencing talent.

Your main premise is that the MHL is filled with 'nobodys', then you went on to talk about draft picks and that you knew nothing about MHL players.

Meanwhile there are 2 drafted players in the top 20 of USHL scoring. That's a whole lotta 'nobodies' leading that league, right?

You're contradicting your own foolish argument.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

The guys I named previously are famous for those who follow too, the only difference here is that I don't pretend to be following USHL enough to make some judgments.

Chernyshov is like yesterday in the KHL, tomorrow in the MHL and so on - usual practice, no surprise for those who actually follow.

However, scouts are not at all interested in these players.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Those are secondary arguments, which are theoretical and not exact in terms of influencing talent.

Your main premise is that the MHL is filled with 'nobodys', then you went on to talk about draft picks and that you knew nothing about MHL players.

Meanwhile there are 2 drafted players in the top 20 of USHL scoring. You're contradicting your own foolish argument.

You find a way to make me say what I didn't say.I very rarely take points into account.

 

[Zine]

However, scouts are not at all interested in these players.

Must not be interested in the USHL top scorers either. What a horrible league, right?

 

[Caser]

However, scouts are not at all interested in these players.

Scouts were and are interested (as they are attending Dynamo games actively), GMs - not always (see the Russian factor). But ok, I just wonder, if you are stating that kind of things, don't you notice that in the like half of the list that you provided GMs weren't interested either even without any additional factor?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Must not be interested in the USHL top scorers either.

Matvei Gridin, Trevor Connelly, Michael Hage, Sascha Boisvert, John Mustard...

Scouts were and are interested (as they are attending Dynamo games actively), GMs - not always (see the Russian factor). But ok, I just wonder, if you are stating that kind of things, don't you notice that in the like half of the list that you provided GMs weren't interested either even without any additional factor?

Even the undrafted players have solid credentials and are mentioned as very solid 19-20 year old players.

Is the absence of a Russian center player in the NHL the Russian factor too ? The low number of good defenders, the wingers who don't defend...

You have to stop inventing a life for yourself. When USHL sees players like Power and Celebrini, MHL always waits...

Why is Russia weaker than Sweden if the MHL level is so high ?

 

[Caser]

Even the undrafted players have solid credentials and are mentioned as very solid 19-20 year old players.

Is the absence of a Russian center player in the NHL the Russian factor too ? The low number of good defenders, the wingers who don't defend...

You have to stop inventing a life for yourself. When USHL sees players like Power and Celebrini, MHL always waits...

Why is Russia weaker than Sweden if the MHL level is so high ?

Yes, that's why I wrote about these solid undrafted guys from Dynamo.

While the center issue is indeed there since like forever, the Ds are produced in quite some amount recently.

MHL sees all the Michkovs, Demidovs and Silayevs, so no issue with waiting.

Last time when allowed to participate Russia was better than Sweden both in U18 and U20 WJCs.

 

[Zine]

Matvei Gridin, Trevor Connelly, Michael Hage, Sascha Boisvert, John Mustard...


Even the undrafted players have solid credentials and are mentioned as very solid 19-20 year old players.

Is the absence of a Russian center player in the NHL the Russian factor too ? The low number of good defenders, the wingers who don't defend...

You have to stop inventing a life for yourself. When USHL sees players like Power and Celebrini, MHL always waits...

Why is Russia weaker than Sweden if the MHL level is so high ?

Still a whole lotta nobodies leading the league.

Why are you sidestepping your own argument?

The USHL is a league a bunch of nobody's can dominate. How can this be if the USHL is so great? This was your reasoning against the MHL. A bunch of nobodys, Demidov, Surin and Ryabkin.
The same thing applies to the USHL.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Yes, that's why I wrote about these solid undrafted guys from Dynamo.

While the center issue is indeed there since like forever, the Ds are produced in quite some amount recently.

MHL sees all the Michkovs, Demidovs and Silayevs, so no issue with waiting.

Last time when allowed to participate Russia was better than Sweden both in U18 and U20 WJCs.

As solid as the players who preceded them in previous years... who became no-names who for the most part had trouble making professional careers.

Yet NHL is still not invaded by Russian players. Only 30 at 10 points and more. Sweden is at 44. I'm taking a statistic like that, just to avoid having to debate between the level of Swedish defenders and centers compared to the Russians.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Still a whole lotta nobodies leading the league.

Why are you sidestepping your own argument?

The USHL is a league a bunch of nobody's can dominate. How can this be if the USHL is so great? This was your reasoning against the MHL. A bunch of nobodys, Demidov, Surin and Ryabkin.
The same thing applies to the USHL.

Obviously, if you don't know the players I'm mentioning... I wonder what you're doing here...

 

[Zine]

Obviously, if you don't know the players I'm mentioning... I wonder what you're doing here...

I recognize them. But what about the others? How can undrafted no-name players dominate such a good league like the USHL?

You're citing no-name players to downplay Dynamo, yet ignoring these undrafted level players have the ability to lead the USHL in scoring.

Kind of ironic.

 

[Caser]

As solid as the players who preceded them in previous years... who became no-names who for the most part had trouble making professional careers.

Yet NHL is still not invaded by Russian players. Only 30 at 10 points and more. Sweden is at 44. I'm taking a statistic like that, just to avoid having to debate between the level of Swedish defenders and centers compared to the Russians.

Points criteria is fun, since it eliminates goalies and defensive Ds. There are 60 Swedes who are regular on the NHL teams (based on games played), for Russians it is 45. Since, as I mentioned roles like 4th line are in general not too attractive for Russians and that there was a significant lack of talent before the 1995 birth year it is not that different.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You have to stop inventing a life for yourself. When USHL sees players like Power and Celebrini, MHL always waits...

Michkov, Demidov, But, Silayev, Simashev, Chernyshov....

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I recognize them. But what about the others? How can undrafted no-name players dominate such a good league like the USHL?

You're citing no-name players to downplay Dynamo, yet ignoring these undrafted level players have the ability to lead the USHL in scoring.

Kind of ironic.

Players who will become pro in the AHL and ECHL for the most part

Michkov, Demidov, But, Silayev, Simashev, Chernyshov....

USDP every year produces guys like that
None have the level of Celebrini/Power

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Points criteria is fun, since it eliminates goalies and defensive Ds. There are 60 Swedes who are regular on the NHL teams (based on games played), for Russians it is 45. Since, as I mentioned roles like 4th line are in general not too attractive for Russians and that there was a significant lack of talent before the 1995 birth year it is not that different.

The points rather favor the Russians since many Russian NHL players are not big defenders...

But if you want to: 10 matches and more

Finland 39
Russia 48
Sweden 70

The gap is proportionally the same.

 

[WarriorofTime]

USDP every year produces guys like that
None have the level of Celebrini/Power

Of course you sidetrack a discussion on this player, Ivan Ryabkin, 2025 Draft Eligible Prospect to get on your soapbox and shout "Russian Hockey Stinks"

How these convos always seem to end up. You want to discuss Russia vs. USA or Canada or Sweden - do it it in the International forum, this is a topic about Ryabkin and you are using flimsy justification of "he should play in the USHL, he should play in the USHL because the MHL is terrible, the MHL is terrible because despite any players, none are Macklin Celebrini, and P.S. Russia sucks and plays no defense" as a paper-thin tie-in, it's very blatant and not subtle.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Of course you sidetrack a discussion on this player, Ivan Ryabkin, 2025 Draft Eligible Prospect to get on your soapbox and shout "Russian Hockey Stinks"

How these convos always seem to end up. You want to discuss Russia vs. USA or Canada or Sweden - do it it in the International forum, this is a topic about Ryabkin and you are using flimsy justification of "he should play in the USHL, he should play in the USHL because the MHL is terrible, the MHL is terrible because despite any players, none are Macklin Celebrini, and P.S. Russia sucks and plays no defense" as a paper-thin tie-in, it's very blatant and not subtle.

I tried to refocus several times on Ryabkin and finish it but your friends keep reminding me to force me to think that MHL has the same level as USHL.

 

[Caser]

The points rather favor the Russians since many Russian NHL players are not big defenders...

But if you want to: 10 matches and more

Russia 48
Sweden 70

The gap is proportionally the same.

10 games is a regular only if you are a backup goalie lol. My criteria was 10 games for a goalie and 24 (so over a half of total games) for a skater, but maybe you might not agree with that, so feel free to correct. Still even you numbers don't contradict my arguments like at all.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I tried to refocus several times on Ryabkin and finish it but your friends keep reminding me to force me to think that MHL has the same level as USHL.

These paths are largely regional, which league is "better" than which is kind of irrelevant. Let the international junior tournaments decide.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

10 games is a regular only if you are a backup goalie lol. My criteria was 10 games for a goalie and 24 (so over a half of total games) for a skater, but maybe you might not agree with that, so feel free to correct. Still even you numbers don't contradict my arguments like at all.

Finland 34
Russia 45
Sweden 62

Try again.

 

[Caser]

Finland 34
Russia 45
Sweden 62

Try again.

Eliteprospects says that it is 53 skaters and 7 goalies though, but ok, let it be 62, what does that change regarding my arguments?

 

[Zine]

Players who will become pro in the AHL and ECHL for the most part


USDP every year produces guys like that
None have the level of Celebrini/Power

No different than their equivalent in the MHL then. Pros in the KHL and VHL.

So I'm glad we're in agreement the USHL. just like the MHL, can be dominated by undrafted players. Er...sorry, 'nobody's' according to you.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

No different than their equivalent in the MHL then. Pros in the KHL and VHL.

So I'm glad we're in agreement the USHL. just like the MHL, can be dominated by undrafted players.

Sorry, but a lot of failed or VHL at least

Top MHL scorer 9 years ago for example :

Matej Zadrazil - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Matej Zadrazil, 1994-02-12 Sokolov, CZE Czechia. Most recently in the Czechia3 with HC Tabor. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

I have the right to think that American hockey is of a much higher level ?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Eliteprospects says that it is 53 skaters and 7 goalies though, but ok, let it be 62, what does that change regarding my arguments?

Certainly. And 4 major Swedish players injured (no Russians). The gap remains there.

Players with 30 points: Sweden 14, Russia 8

In any rematch, Sweden is ahead... the level of the centers makes the difference prohibitive.

No debate.

1 Canada
2 USA
3 Sweden
4 Russia
5 Finland
6 Czechia

 

[WarriorofTime]

Finland 34
Russia 45
Sweden 62

Try again.

Sweden - 10.1 % of NHL players representing 9.3 % of NHL games played.

What does that say?

Sweden is disproportionately sending players to the NHL that are fighting out marginal roles (12th/13th forward, sent down and called back up from the AHL). This makes sense as there is a transfer agreement between SHL and NHL, and the money as a 13th forward/7th defensemen or even a 2-way AHL player is often favorable to what they could get in the SHL. So Swedes are more likely to be "in the system" and will grind it out, for years beyond their ELC and waiver-exempt years and stick around even without certain NHL prospects. From there, being "around" gives opportunity and gives some players a chance to break out into bigger roles in their prime years, etc. Americans and Canadians are of course even much more likely than Swedes for this (someone like Carter Verhaeghe going from 3rd round bust playing in the ECHL to 42 goal scorer in the NHL is the most extreme sort of example) as some Swedes will go home.

For Russia, no transfer agreement between NHL and KHL, so they are not even in the same ecosystem. A player without an assured role is more likely to head back over to the KHL where they can make more money than a 13th forward or 2-way contract. A KHL contract is going to be competitive with bottom NHL spots and more favorable to AHL money, and then the cultural differences (Swedes speak very good english, Russians seldom do) make it pretty obvious for a Russian to go back to the KHL. From there, they hit their prime in Russia, the NHL team holds their rights indefinitely but is likely moved on to developing a new wave of prospects rather than trying to chase a KHL player (that they haven't seen for some time) back into the NHL to marginally improve their roster.

It's not particularly complicated. Russia and Sweden had pretty similar results at the U20 level (both on the podium a lot but snake bitten as far as Gold Medals go in recent years). The high-end theoretical rosters are pretty comparable. There is not some huge gap between Swedish Hockey and Russian Hockey, there are just other factors at play to explain why there would be more Swedes in the NHL.