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C German Rubtsov (2016, 22nd, PHI)

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Went back to 2016 draft. Players picked around his 22nd slot and playing in CHL all seem to have pretty much same development: Stanley at 18, Gauthier 21 and Jones 24. Seems so far like it was perfect year to move down in 2nd round and draft Kyrou, Hart or DeBrincat.
 
Juicy Pop said:
I don't understand why his post keeps getting flame bumped.

Okay, maybe he's struggling but you won't know what that means until a few years down the road. Maybe he's a total bust, maybe he's not; nobody has enough information to go on right now though.
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I will still be waiting for responses from Flyers fans who defended his decision to play in the CHL. Again, call me when he is a 2C on the Flyers as projected by those ppl.
 
Juicy Pop said:
I didn't realize that so many prominent professional writers and draft analysts are Flyers fans.
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Oh, how many of those people are actual professionals at hockey? I know many writers amd analysts who are not. In fact nearly every single writeup on russian prospwcts before the draft is a joke. And those are made by those wroters and analysts.
 
Atas2000 said:
I will still be waiting for responses from Flyers fans who defended his decision to play in the CHL. Again, call me when he is a 2C on the Flyers as projected by those ppl.
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It wasn't like he was having a great year in Russia. He hasn't had much luck health-wise.

And let's just stop pretending Russian prospects always develop well if they stay there. They don't.
 
We are still arguing this Russia shit before he even plays any pro games? I think the only thing that matters is what happens over the next 3 years.
 
I'm not really concerned about his slower development. He'll be in the AHL soon enough anyway, we'll see how he does at that level before making any judgements. But let's just say, hypothetically, he does end up being a bust. They still got Carter Hart in the 2nd round that year, which offsets the Rubtsov pick. Not to mention that they also ended up with Allison, Laczynski, Twarynski and Bunnaman in the same draft, who all have a chance to be NHL contributors at some point anyway. I could live with Rubtsov being one of the rare misses on Hexy's draft record.
 
Juicy Pop said:
I'm not sure that you understand the implications of this statement otherwise you wouldn't have said it.
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Your implications are false. Rusdians do develop better in Russia. Rubtsov would become a better player in Russia.
 
Atas2000 said:
There is a difference between not developing well and failing completely. That's rare. Although not for Russians in the CHL/AHL. So there is a pattern.
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I thought they either made the NHL or not.
For those who made it then you look at how well they performed.
For those who missed, whether they become career ahlers, khlers, scouts or high school coaches, makes no difference to me.
Not sure why you are on Rubstov's case more than the others drafted around him.
2016 draftees do not "fail completely" in March 2018.
 
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MSSLYNX said:
I thought they either made the NHL or not.
For those who made it then you look at how well they performed.
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Here we go. North American can only judge by the only measuring stick they can imagine. There is hockey.There's not NHL and some void. If somebody performs poorly in the NHL that doesn't necessarily mean he is bad at hockey.But it goes both ways.

MSSLYNX said:
For those who missed, whether they become career ahlers, khlers, scouts or high school coaches, makes no difference to me.
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I am very sure of it. That's why I will never consider those north american arrogant NHL only opinions seriously.

MSSLYNX said:
Not sure why you are on Rubstov's case more than the others drafted around him.
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That's the same sort of problem. Who cares about your holy NHL draft? Should I compare Kucherov to late 2nd rounders now bacause NHL scouts and GM are idiots when it comes to drafting Russians?

Where they were drafted is completely irrelevant. I am talking about players I know myself. I know how what they were like at draft day and what they could become if properly developed. The concept is not new to you. It's called ceiling, yes. But Rubtsov is already moving in the wrong direction i.e. not towards hs ceiling. Just like so many other Russians who crossed the pond too early. What a surprise.
 
Atas2000 said:
There is a difference between not developing well and failing completely. That's rare. Although not for Russians in the CHL/AHL. So there is a pattern.
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Yes, as a Flyer fan I'm really disappointed that Provorov (the best young Russian defenceman we've seen in eons) came over to the CHL and had his career destroyed.

And if you're saying Rubtsov has failed completely...how about seeing what he can do when healthy (which I doubt has any bearing on WHERE he plays) and whether that translates to an NHL career or not (yes there are other leagues in the world...the NHL is the best though) I doubt as a teenager he's done developing. Even someone as biased and agenda driven as you have to admit that...or not.
 
C0DITH said:
We are still arguing this Russia **** before he even plays any pro games? I think the only thing that matters is what happens over the next 3 years.
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Its just the same guy with the same annoying narrative that he won't shut up about. Its getting old
 
Atas2000 said:
I will still be waiting for responses from Flyers fans who defended his decision to play in the CHL. Again, call me when he is a 2C on the Flyers as projected by those ppl.
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Im still confused why you're already writing off Rubtsov as a bust after 62 CHL games (and was actually writing him off way earlier) but give absolutely 0 credit to the CHL for Kucherov and his 47 games. Do those extra 15 games make the difference between ruining a player and making 0 difference.

Also what's your excuse for Sergachev? Namestikov? Radulov? Kulikov? Provorov?
 
As has been explained a million times the main problem is when coming over around 17 changing hockey styles at this age has been a death sentence for careers. You cherry pick a couple people who fit this criteria, and guys who don't fit this criteria like Provorov who moved to Canada when he was 14, and ignore the dozens of players who have failed.

So Russia and Russian supporters should be happy that like half or more of Russias good prospects have amounted to nothing because Sergachev has been a decent player? lol.

People like me and Atlas understand the problem, speak out about the problem, and push for reform to correct the problem. How is whitewashing the problem and ruining kids careers a righteous position?
 
RossiyaSport said:
As has been explained a million times the main problem is when coming over around 17 changing hockey styles at this age has been a death sentence for careers. You cherry pick a couple people who fit this criteria, and guys who don't fit this criteria like Provorov who moved to Canada when he was 14, and ignore the dozens of players who have failed.

So Russia and Russian supporters should be happy that like half or more of Russias good prospects have amounted to nothing because Sergachev has been a decent player? lol.

People like me and Atlas understand the problem, speak out about the problem, and push for reform to correct the problem. How is whitewashing the problem and ruining kids careers a righteous position?
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The reason a prospect fails doesn't always have to be blamed on their environment. A lot of times kids could fail in more than 1 environment. Just like they could succeed in more than 1 environment. The scapegoating is exhausting and de-rails every thread that features a Russian prospect.

5 years from now when Sergachev and Provorov are the best Russian defenseman in the world, and Svechnikov and Kucherov are some of the best Russian forwards in the world, we will be able to say that Russians can succeed developing in both Russia AND North America. And then maybe we will actually put some accountability on the player and not just blame the league they play in.

To tie this to Rubtsov, the knock on him even dating back to when he was still in Russia was that he was a complete player but may not be dynamic offensively. Now he crosses the pond and isn't putting up huge numbers. Maybe his lack of a dynamic offensive game would have been the issue regardless of wherever he chose to play hockey? See, we can't say that though. We have to blame it on something.
 
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RossiyaSport said:
As has been explained a million times the main problem is when coming over around 17 changing hockey styles at this age has been a death sentence for careers. You cherry pick a couple people who fit this criteria, and guys who don't fit this criteria like Provorov who moved to Canada when he was 14, and ignore the dozens of players who have failed.

So Russia and Russian supporters should be happy that like half or more of Russias good prospects have amounted to nothing because Sergachev has been a decent player? lol.

People like me and Atlas understand the problem, speak out about the problem, and push for reform to correct the problem. How is whitewashing the problem and ruining kids careers a righteous position?
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You know what else is a "death sentence"? Not everyone can be a star in the NHL. No matter what junior league you play in, or whether you're Russian, Canadian or Bolivian.

You guys are as guilty of cherry picking players who've failed, as people are of picking the ones who succeed. How Atas can foresee the future of a 19 year old who's had injury problems that I doubt had anything to do with whether he stayed in Russia (where he was bouncing around and fed up) or came over I have no clue.

As for you and him understanding the problem...get off your high horse. There are plenty of juniors EVERYWHERE whose careers get derailed. A good number of those actually stayed in the motherland...whether you two hockey gurus want to admit it or not.

SOME hockey players go on to become very good NHLers...MOST don't. The end.
 
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nbwingsfan said:
Im still confused why you're already writing off Rubtsov as a bust after 62 CHL games (and was actually writing him off way earlier) but give absolutely 0 credit to the CHL for Kucherov and his 47 games. Do those extra 15 games make the difference between ruining a player and making 0 difference.

Also what's your excuse for Sergachev? Namestikov? Radulov? Kulikov? Provorov?
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I am not saying he is a bust. If you think otherwise find me a quote in my posts.

He is not developing well. He is not progressing. And knowing the type of player he is he would benefit greatly from staying for several more years in Russia. That might produce way better results than his CHL adventure. I think his projections will go down with time now. And I doubt 3C is what Rubtsov himself wanted for his career. And he had the raw tools to be more.

You are seriously comparing Kucherov who holds or held the record for the U18 WC to Rubtsov? You also have no idea about Kucherov's situation at the time. Kucherov had very few choices at the time. I doubt the CHL helped him in any wayplmaybe it hurt him, but the point still is that the two players are in completely different tiers. Kucherov was a future superstar at 17. Rubtsov had to work hard to become a star at all. He chose the easy way out and pays the price.

You bring up the usual false examples from NA. Should I actually dissect them for you again? There is no need for excuses. Half the cases you bring up don't even belong. The other half you don't really know about or you act like you don't know because it fits your narrative and you don't have better examples.
 
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