C Alex Turcotte - (2019, 5th, LAK) - PART 2

[majormajor]

I think the Kings are at an inflection point. You have to give these kids a chance to break into the NHL and make their mark at some point.

The Kings are in no-man’s land with their current team. They have a few veterans who’ve had great careers that they seem to be trying to appease and a great pool of prospects. The two can’t realistically co-exist in the same window, especially when you also hoard AAAA players. Either you prioritize the window of the veterans, in which case they should already have started trading the prospects for immediate help. Or the veterans are told to keep quiet or leave.

I feel like appeasing the veterans was the wrong option all along. I didn’t think the Kings had the players for one last run, even if they traded a few of these guys. They have such a good group of prospects, but that can change quickly. Turcotte and Byfield were each drafted higher than Zegras and Drysdale across town, but the Ducks kids are now succeeding in the NHL. If you want another example to rub it in, McTavish is having a more successful season than Clarke, and nearly everyone would’ve said at the draft that Clarke was the better prospect.

The Ducks have done a great job of realizing the importance of these guys development to their eventual success. The Kings seem to be juggling some loud veteran voices trying to push the rebuild along, trying to be too greedy with asset management, and trying to develop their prospect pool. It seems to all be suffering.

I agree with the general point that the Kings have been unfocused.

But usually I think prospect's struggles have more to do with prospect talent, and the Kings' prospects were maybe overrated to begin with. Certainly compared to the Ducks prospects.

By the way, Clarke was only the obviously better prospect than McTavish among a certain online set. Among actual league sources polled for Bob's list, McTavish was consistently ahead:

1 Owen Power
2 Matty Beniers
3 Simon Edvinsson
T4 William Eklund
T4 Mason McTavish
6 Dylan Guenther
7 Brandt Clarke
8 Luke Hughes
9 Kent Johnson
10 Chaz Lucius

Hockeyprospect also had McTavish well ahead of Clarke. A similar thing happened with Edvinsson where the twitter bubble was super low on him (too much focus on micro-stats?).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I agree with the general point that the Kings have been unfocused.

But usually I think prospect's struggles have more to do with prospect talent, and the Kings' prospects were maybe overrated to begin with. Certainly compared to the Ducks prospects.

By the way, Clarke was only the obviously better prospect than McTavish among a certain online set. Among actual league sources polled for Bob's list, McTavish was consistently ahead:

1 Owen Power
2 Matty Beniers
3 Simon Edvinsson
T4 William Eklund
T4 Mason McTavish
6 Dylan Guenther
7 Brandt Clarke
8 Luke Hughes
9 Kent Johnson
10 Chaz Lucius

Hockeyprospect also had McTavish well ahead of Clarke. A similar thing happened with Edvinsson where the twitter bubble was super low on him (too much focus on micro-stats?).

I think there is merit to some of what you are saying, but I look at what happened with how Vegas built their team and I can’t help but think that how a team develops and utilizes a player makes a large difference. All these guys are talented. They wouldn’t be in the NHL, if they weren’t. They were all difference makers at one point or another. Some teams get more with less and others get less with more.

Even Seattle, which didn’t do as well in picking their team and didn’t have as good players available, picked some players that are elevating to higher tiers of NHL’ers this year due to being on an expansion team that doesn’t have established good players.

 

[Mats26]

Kopitar and Danault are signed for multiple years. So, Turcotte is going to have to find a way to contribute if he’s going to get ice time.

Many discussions on the Kings' board is exactly about that. In Alex's case contribution for me also means producing. Because if he doesn't add to the score sheet he is playing the roles of Moore, Lizotte on the team. I really don't care if he ends up a Center or LW as long as he plays in the top 6, brings his 200 foot game and chips in once and a while until he establishes himself as a 50pt+ player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hopefully he can get PK time if he isn’t going to play a big ES or PP role.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Bo is stocky at 6'0 and 215 lbs. Alex is 5'11 and 185? Even if that was his draft weight, I don't expect that he would ever gain 30 pounds on that frame.

Yeah and I think anyone that's seen Alex would say 5'11" is generous.

I don't think it's a problem, yet. It's quite normal to give prospects a few games to get their feet wet, if he continues playing well and doesn't get his ice-time bumped up after the 5th-6th game then it's a cause for concern.

Oh it's a problem lol. I don't want to unload it here. But generally speaking, LA's top six's average age is 30 and they play 40 min a game, the bottom six avg. age is 22 and they play 20.

Not only that, the AAAA/tweeners got pushed down such that even in the AHL PP1 doesn't include Turcotte/Madden/Fagemo et. al., it's tynan/Frk and an assortment of late 20s guys.

Trust me, a good amount of us are very worried that LA is treating their blue chippers like they're all Dwight King.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I didn’t see the game, but his second game he had 2 SOG, 50% on FO’s, good corsi numbers, and he hit the post.

The big problem, he played less than 10 minutes.

This has been a problem for all the Kings young forwards under this coach. It’s probably going to be a longer process for them to establish themselves. Probably the best they can hope for is the team misses the playoffs and a development type of coach takes over.

I just can’t fathom this type of stuff this coach does. How is Danault on PP1? He’s a defensive middle six center. The knock on him is his offensive game. I’m a Rangers fan and it drives me crazy that Strome plays PP1 ahead of Kakko/Lafreniere. At least he’s a big scorer, unlike Danault. How does Kaliyev rotate between 3rd and 4th line? The guy is a scorer. Putting him with grinders makes no sense. Byfield and Turcotte both played like fourth line minutes their first few games and actual fourth liners get their minutes. How is Kupari in and out of the lineup? Don’t you want to see what you have?

That's pretty much it. They've set goals that are all at odds with one another and hurt the future.

If it's even this apparent to outsiders, makes you wonder what the internal discussions look like...because a 3x icetime discrepancy between Cs at any level is gross.

 

[Grantham]

I liked his game yesterday against the Canucks. He plays a pretty strong and direct game, yet still has good playmaking ability.

Even through a pretty good hit on JT Miller who is a bull and not easy to knock over.

Lots of promising young talent in LA.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Made some very strong plays again last night as part of a 'kid line' with Kupari and Grundstrom, but this was the first game in a long time all the guys under 23 looked physically overmatched. Probably doesn't help his most common matchups were Sanheim and Ristolainen

Would love to see him get some time with some of the top-six wingers before he goes down but the guy has demonstrated already what will make him successful in the NHL, he's an absolute pain in the ass to deal with every single shift and he can turn a check into a scoring opportunity in a second. If Grundstrom or Kupari had better hands in front of the net last night, he'd be on the scoreboard. They did also spend a couple of extended shifts in their own end though and mostly did well sorting out coverage. Needs to work on faceoffs from the standpoint of he can win them so cleanly, but he also loses them very cleanly--needs to get more comfortable making a mess at the dot if he's not going to win it.

It's also clear to see what keeps getting him hurt at his size because he is ferocious but absolutely fearless throwing his body around--on one hand, nice to see after his injuries, but on another, I think of how I refer to Blake Lizotte as a crash test dummy and Turcotte plays very much the same way. But if there's an 'identity' the Kings are going for, he certainly embodies it, I get the 'culture'/leadership comments in full now, the guy doesn't even need a letter, he just plays the right way and everyone can get on his back.

Part of the problem also is what we talked about before, mismanagment of minutes. By the end of the first Turc's line had only played 2 and a half minutes while Kopitar was already up near 10...then they opened up a 3 goal lead in the 2nd before it got tighter in the 3rd. If you're not going to play him early in the 1st, and you're not going to play them with a big lead, when ARE you going to play him so he can get in a rhythm so you see what you've got? A few shifts 10 minutes apart aren't great for establishing a strong viewing imo. Special teams made a mess of things a bit too, to be fair. But I imagine, with a long break between games, some guys will be coming back to send Turcotte back down. Edit: maybe not yet, as Kings play Thursday but Reign don't play again till Sat...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He had 5 SOG last night in a little over 9 minutes in his return to the lineup from COVID protocols. Led the game in SOG, and was last on the Kings in TOI. He was absolutely flying. Thought he played extremely well. Also should've had an assist, but Kupari somehow steered a centering pass wide. The TOI still makes no sense to me. He's playing 12F minutes. Not even on the PP anymore. How does Trevor Moore get on the PP and Turcotte doesn't? Moore is a 26 year old 4th line forward. Even if Turcotte is unproven in NHL, there's no reason Moore should be playing PP in NHL. I'd send Turcotte down to the AHL, if this is going to be his role. But he looks NHL ready.

I've watched Turcotte play a lot over the years, but one thing you forget if you aren't watching him play too regularly is the intensity he plays with. Every shift he plays all out. It's not as if he's the only player in the NHL that plays like that. There's a player or two like that on every team, but most of those guys are the 4th liners that are in the NHL because they play like that. Turcotte having the offensive potential to be a top 6 version of that is part of what makes him such a good prospect, and probably very undervalued by a lot of people.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He had 5 SOG last night in a little over 9 minutes in his return to the lineup from COVID protocols. Led the game in SOG, and was last on the Kings in TOI. He was absolutely flying. Thought he played extremely well. Also should've had an assist, but Kupari somehow steered a centering pass wide. The TOI still makes no sense to me. He's playing 12F minutes. Not even on the PP anymore. How does Trevor Moore get on the PP and Turcotte doesn't? Moore is a 26 year old 4th line forward. Even if Turcotte is unproven in NHL, there's no reason Moore should be playing PP in NHL. I'd send Turcotte down to the AHL, if this is going to be his role. But he looks NHL ready.

I've watched Turcotte play a lot over the years, but one thing you forget if you aren't watching him play too regularly is the intensity he plays with. Every shift he plays all out. It's not as if he's the only player in the NHL that plays like that. There's a player or two like that on every team, but most of those guys are the 4th liners that are in the NHL because they play like that. Turcotte having the offensive potential to be a top 6 version of that is part of what makes him such a good prospect, and probably very undervalued by a lot of people.

welcome to LA Kings development, enjoy your stay!

He played very well particularly considering linemates--Dustin Brown has been better in limited minutes but he's still a corpse. Kupari is basically Trevor Lewis, he can fly around but he's never discovered his NHL scoring touch. Turcotte has been so close to a goal or an assist on quite a few occasions so far, you get the feeling that he's going to pop the bottle and never look back, but its' frustrating watching him feed less talented players repeatedly.

His intensity is just so, so good and refreshing. It's amazing watching this team develop an identity, and one that Turcotte already has, just flying in on the forecheck with reckless abandon, doing everything to get the puck and make a quick play, everything is go go go high pace with Turcotte and it's contagious.

Unfortunately it's been roughly the same in the AHL, where he's not used on the PP. It's very, very annoying because people that watch him can see the offensive potential is still very much there, but the opportunity is not. And with Byfield and Vilardi both healthy and thriving, and several other guys returning from injuries and protocol, it'll be interesting to see how the Kings handle him moving forward. I agree he's very much needing to be playing bigger minutes in the NHL or at the very least offensive/PP minutes in the AHL.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Dude has been an absolute animal at the AHL level and after getting sent down appears to have found another gear instead of sulking. He was flying all over in an important divisional rivalry game getting 2A and pissing everyone off all over the ice. That guy was checking and ripping pucks off everyone like they had never seen a forecheck before. six game point streak at that level, hope he finishes strong as he did before...and stays healthy. That will be the key as he appears to have found a new layer of growth after being healthy and the short NHL stint. He's also +18, 2nd overall in the AHL, a pretty 'meaningless' stat I know but it shows in his all around game.

Also a nice preview of a poential NHL line in the future as they had been skating Vilardi-Turcotte-Madden and now Vilardi-Turcotte-Fagemo

 

[bsu]

Kid can't catch a break, damn.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Can’t stay healthy and will probably never live up to expectations. His style of play and body are not a match unfortunately.

 

[Reaper45]

Can’t stay healthy and will probably never live up to expectations. His style of play and body are not a match unfortunately.

He’s currently hurt because of a check from behind.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

I think he ends up in a deal with Vancouver

 

[kilowatt]

I think he ends up in a deal with Vancouver

For whom?

 

[kinghock]

I think he ends up in a deal with Vancouver

Vancouver can dream about it, but their offers did not work for LA at TDL.

Nothing is changed now.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Two assists today. This was his second game back. He wasn’t on the scoreboard in the first. He missed a little over two months with an upper body injury.

Expecting the usual @Raccoon Jesus report on how it’s went since returning, but let’s give him 24 hours.

Whose bad idea is it to schedule the Kings and Reign playoff games at the same time?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

yeahhh didn't watch the Reign game, lol.

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

Too bad Turc has had injuries. He should be up for Kings playoffs instead of Byfield.

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

Is he hurt again????

 

[funky]

Is he hurt again????

Got crushed, had trouble getting off. Doesn’t look good

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Can't catch a break. Some punk hits him illegally a few games after he returned from the last injury. Really hoping these two injuries were not concussions.

 

[Nabrules]

Was a huge fan of his at draft time but his development has been awful since. Injuries are a part of his that are unlucky but him leaving College after 1 up year was so dumb.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Was a huge fan of his at draft time but his development has been awful since. Injuries are a part of his that are unlucky but him leaving College after 1 up year was so dumb.

I think this is pretty inaccurate. And your timing for bringing this up is shitty.

His freshman season at Wisconsin was not that good. He also didn't have the best World Juniors that year. That Wisconsin team he was on his freshman year completely underachieved. There were a lot of questions about the coaching.

Since he left, he's been pretty good for the Kings AHL affiliate, and he had that great World Juniors that he never gets credit for having. Obviously though, there are some problems with how the Kings develop players. He barely gets PP time in the AHL, which hurts his point totals, and then when he was up with the NHL team he's treated like the Kings treat all skilled rookies. It's an initiation process. The veterans and grinders get the good minutes and situations. The skilled rookies don't. The injuries don't help his development, but when he's been on the ice he's been pretty good.