Bunting for Calder

[Confucius]

Why would they need to come out and say that? It's just common sense what Seider and Zegras are doing at their age is more special than what Bunting did. That's not a knock on Bunting he's still special for us. When I say age matters as a factor I'm saying that casually. It's an accepted fact and thinking about our own superstars when they were 19-21 should be enough for you. Imagine Marners 61 points going up against Buntings points. It would be an outrage if 26 year old Bunting beat 20 year old Marner. Marner had to actually be a line carrier at 20 years old there's nothing to debate here about age. Seider deserves it 100% he's a special player more so than Bunting.

Well fine then, I agree it is more difficult to do it as a 20 year old. If that is the reason you want to give the award to a 20 year old, just man up and state it, as you are doing here. I'd have no problem with that stance.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Well fine then, I agree it is more difficult to do it as a 20 year old. If that is the reason you want to give the award to a 20 year old, just man up and state it, as you are doing here. I'd have no problem with that stance.

There's nothing to really man up about. It's "rookie of the year", it would be more weird to not consider age as a factor. A rookie who becomes a core go-to guy in his first ever year is just on another level than a Bunting and you seem to indirectly agree with your first sentence there. For me that's not anything controversial to state, so not sure why I'd have to "man up" about anything, like I'm making up an excuse for rookies like Seider.

I forgot to touch on your Panarin statement. Panarin deserved the calder at his age. He hit superstar status out the gate and ran with it since, so he's not a counter example in favor for Bunting. The whole hockey universe went on the edge of their seats for Panarin after his first few games. McDavid had no shot playing only 45 games and what Panarin did was more special than Eichel as well. Bunting isn't even close to Panarins rookie season in such a way he can offset Seiders age.

 

[Confucius]

There's nothing to really man up about. It's "rookie of the year", it would be more weird to not consider age as a factor. A rookie who becomes a core go-to guy in his first ever year is just on another level than a Bunting and you seem to indirectly agree with your first sentence there. For me that's not anything controversial to state, so not sure why I'd have to "man up" about anything, like I'm making up an excuse for rookies like Seider.

I forgot to touch on your Panarin statement. Panarin deserved the calder at his age. He hit superstar status out the gate and ran with it since, so he's not a counter example in favor for Bunting. The whole hockey universe went on the edge of their seats for Panarin after his first few games. McDavid had no shot playing only 45 games and what Panarin did was more special than Eichel as well. Bunting isn't even close to Panarins rookie season in such a way he can offset Seiders age.

Ok man I'm bowing out but age is a factor in your position that much is obvious. So Zegras or Sider will win because of their age. I'm good with that. Take care.

 

[Field of Dreams]

Bunting is a +20 while Sieder is a -30. That's a 50 goal differencial

 

[Advanced stats]

I have no problem with Bunting losing to Seider.

He should absolutely be top 2 though.

 

[Bluelines]

-Bunting now has 8 points over 2nd place in the rookie scoring race.
-He’s the only one in the top 4 of scoring with less than 22 power play points with only 6. So he’s been an even strength machine.
-He's the only one in the top 4 of scoring that has less than 18 minutes of ice time with a mere 15:41 average.
-He’s the only one in the top 4 of scoring that has a positive plus/minus at a team leading +30. Next closest on the Leafs is +23. So it doesn’t seem like he’s getting carried.
-He’s already surpassed the best season of the top lines LWer for the past 5 years (Hyman) by 22 points. Yaya shortened seasons, but that is the fact.

Not sure what else the guy needs to do.
"But he’s so OLD!!!" Then why wouldn’t they put the stipulation on the trophy to be 21 or under or whatever?
Cause the bloody guy is eligible.

Just because a dman has 47 points with 22 of them on the PP while not being a complete scrub on a scrub team? It’s the logic that someone needs to score on a bad team and he’s getting fed 23 minutes a night, more than 7 minutes a night more than Bunting.

That’s my case, destroy me.

Reasons why he wont win... he is a Leaf not named Matthews? The PHWA is not the most knowledgeable body in the world, a few years ago one reporter admitted to never actually stepping foot into a NHL rink but still voted anyway. A person who is supposed to be an expert on the sport, never taking one night out of her year to go to a rink, in her city ... to see a game live... shouldn't experts for the sport have enough passion to see it live at least once?

I forget what the award was for but a few years back Ovie received votes for RW. LW and Center from members of the PHWA... yep that happened....

It's a popularity contest ... not a merit contest ... I think the guy who wins will have a Red Wings (Seider / Raymond) sweater or a Ducks (Zegras) sweater... not for merit but for popularity reasons.

 

[Bluelines]

Why would they need to come out and say that? It's just common sense what Seider and Zegras are doing at their age is more special than what Bunting did. That's not a knock on Bunting he's still special for us. When I say age matters as a factor I'm saying that casually. It's an accepted fact and thinking about our own superstars when they were 19-21 should be enough for you. Imagine Marners 61 points going up against Buntings points. It would be an outrage if 26 year old Bunting beat 20 year old Marner. Marner had to actually be a line carrier at 20 years old there's nothing to debate here about age. Seider deserves it 100% he's a special player more so than Bunting.

I get what you are getting at, you're saying the PWHA is using an unconscious bias and/or personal standards that is not stipulated the rules.

There has not been a winner older than 25 since 89-90 and only 5 Calder winners older than 25 in the history of the award. It's not that he cant win, its that he is unlikely to win. His situation is unlikely also though... so lets hope for the best but expect that good old anti Toronto Maple Leaf bias to rear it's ugly head once again ...

Ask yourself how often do you see Bunting in the highlight reel outside of toronto? How often do you see Zegras or Seider or Raymond? It's a popularity contest TBH.

Season	Winner	Team	Position	Age[a]
1947–48	Jim McFadden	Detroit Red Wings	C	27​
1956–57	Larry Regan	Boston Bruins	RW	26​
1962–63	Kent Douglas	Toronto Maple Leafs	D	26​
1969–70	Tony Esposito	Chicago Black Hawks	G	26​
1989–90	Sergei Makarov	Calgary Flames	RW	31​

 

[crump]

Deserves to be runner up at least. The D from Detroit will probably get it, but Bunting has been good regardless of his age and who he plays with. He’s got great instincts around the net and will be the best rookie in the PO’s due to his style of play. Maybe he goes nuclear in the last 6 games and gets to 70 points he has a chance.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Come on, he is a 3rd wheel on a line with 2 100 point players. He won’t even be top 3 in voting. That’s not a knock on him, he has been very valuable for us. Who cares if he doesn’t win it? Leafs have much bigger goals in mind.

 

[MoreMogilny]

Seider should get it.

We all love Bunting, but he gets a huge benefit of sliding in next to two insane talents. We are fortunate his play style supports Matthews and Marner very well, but in another situation he would not be even close to this productive.

To me, he’d have to be lapping the competition statistically for it to make sense.

 

[zeke]

Good thing to remember is that Zegras is 21 himself, not an 18 or 19 years old just drafted guy.

 

[Ashdown2]

Bunting is a +20 while Sieder is a -30. That's a 50 goal differencial

and if u make them switch teams, bunting would be -30 .......

the most meaningless stat in sports

 

[Advanced stats]

Anyone know when votes have to be in by? I think it's before the playoffs?

 

[Lightsol]

Deserves to be runner up at least. The D from Detroit will probably get it, but Bunting has been good regardless of his age and who he plays with. He’s got great instincts around the net and will be the best rookie in the PO’s due to his style of play. Maybe he goes nuclear in the last 6 games and gets to 70 points he has a chance.

Deserves, but he won't. Don't be surprised if it's Seider, Zegras and Raymond, and Bunting isn't even mentioned.

 

[notbias]

Silly. By saying his points aren't being inflated by playing two of the best offensive players in the league is silly. Of course he's being carried. If he were playing on Toronto's third line and getting 14 minutes a game he probably has half the production.

It's seider.

Now remove PP points which heavily influence the other top rookies.

 

[Steve]

As a Leaf fan, I'd love to see him win it but I'm not sure he should. If he's not a finalist I think there is a problem but probably shouldn't win

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I’m not saying he should win it, I’m merely making a case. If you don’t like my points that’s fair.

 

[EXTRAS]

Now remove PP points which heavily influence the other top rookies.

Not sure when getting power play points became a negative, especially when it's a defenseman running a powerplay

 

[ponder]

I think there’s a legit argument for Bunting being the best rookie, in terms of impact this year. However, it’s certainly close between him and Seider, and Bunting is 26. IMO he’d need to be head and shoulders above the competition to win at 26 - if it’s close (and it is), it should go to the real rookie. If I had a vote, I’d vote Seider.

Really they should just change the rules, and put the age cap at more like 23.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Not sure when getting power play points became a negative, especially when it's a defenseman running a powerplay

Because Bunting would be lapping the field with those missing 2 mins of PP time per game.

He doesn’t take shifts off, and as another poster said he draws the third most penalties in the league. He also has an undeniable skill to get people off their game that isn’t seen anywhere in the stats.

 

[Morbo]

home run UFA signing by the Dube no doubt, and breakout season for Bunting no doubt, but my feeling is Bunting shouldn't be eligible for the Calder.

it's not in the spirit of the award to have it go to a guy turning 27 years old this year.

 

[EXTRAS]

Because Bunting would be lapping the field with those missing 2 mins of PP time per game.

He doesn’t take shifts off, and as another poster said he draws the third most penalties in the league. He also has an undeniable skill to get people off their game that isn’t seen anywhere in the stats.

He doesn't get those two pp minutes per game because he isn't good enough

 

[notbias]

Not sure when getting power play points became a negative, especially when it's a defenseman running a powerplay

It isn't just Bunting would be well ahead of the field, maybe even approaching point per game territory if he had PP1 time as a net-front guy.

 

[notbias]

He doesn't get those two pp minutes per game because he isn't good enough

And Seider does because Detroit isn't good enough, what is your point? Seider is PP2 (at best) on our team

 

[RunItBackAgain]

He doesn't get those two pp minutes per game because he isn't good enough

He is a main reason we just broke our 0/17 PP drought last night. And to say he wouldn’t do what Tavares is doing on the PP is laughable to me.