News Article: Bullying and Backstabbing: The Ottawa Senators are Pro-Sports' Biggest Mess

[Ray Kinsella]

Wow... anyway... Go Sens Go!

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I think you make a good point about calling people bots. When you see it, feel free to report it for moderator review and I'll endeavor to address it whenever I see it as well.

Does this mean I can’t call you Micklebot?

 

[Micklebot]

Does this mean I can’t call you Micklebot?

How dare you! I take offen... oh wait... but I am a bot... but I said I agree calling posters bots is bad... but I am a bot.. but I said that calling posters bots is bad... but...

Damn you for getting me stuck in a feedback loop!

 

[BatherSeason]

We already have 2 7+M players , soon to be 3. OEL is one guy. I am not really comparing Ottawa to them because I was assuming , at that time, Karlsson would get Subban money and up. Not to mention the likes of Stone, Turris etc...that needed raises too.

I have always felt that this team could compete with anyone based on a maxed out revenue scenario i.e. full , paid building. I think it will once , or if, that ever happens

Next year we will only have one and I am sure Dorion will be instructed to do everything in his power to attach the Ryan contract to the Stone or Duchene trade.

Your argument still isn't valid and you really didn't answer my post. You claim the Sens are unable to sign their key players because of the poor attendance and you blame the fanbase for this, but why are the Arizona Coyotes able to keep their key players and attract free agents with an attendance that's about half of what the Sens get AND they have had no playoff revenue in what 5 years? (please don't say weather, I know someone will)

Resigning OEL was a non issue, I am sure resigning Galchenyuk will also be a non issue. Only in Ottawa do we not retain our star players because according to you and a few others, we are bad fans. .

 

[BatherSeason]

We already have 2 7+M players , soon to be 3. OEL is one guy. I am not really comparing Ottawa to them because I was assuming , at that time, Karlsson would get Subban money and up. Not to mention the likes of Stone, Turris etc...that needed raises too.

Hmmmm, imagine if we didn't give both of our goalies big money extensions , or if Zach Smith was allowed to walk or was moved instead of signing a multi year multi million dollar extension with a big picture plan of saving money so that we could resign Karlsson, Turris/Duchene, Stone, etc. Imagine if this organization actually had a "plan" and not this mythical non-existant "plan" Dorion keeps referring to.

I could go on, imagine acquiring draft picks to help this supposed "rebuild" instead of a 4 million dollar player in the downswing of his career. Another 4 million saved for a supposed "budget team" where we could use the money to pay Stone or Duchene or even Karlsson for that matter....not trading for Burrows would have meant even more money saved...

Lots of bad bad contracts handed out to marginal players throughout the years, yet not enough money to resign our stars! Fantastic business model!

 

[Sensung]

Poor management is part of the issue, but the reality is Eugene isn’t going to spend with Lebreton on the horizon.

The fans have this one opportunity to put the boots to this owner and try to get him to sell. If he is able to hold on and gets Lebreton built, then we are stuck with him until he dies.

If you care about the best interests of the Sens, then the time to take action is NOW.

 

[coladin]

Next year we will only have one and I am sure Dorion will be instructed to do everything in his power to attach the Ryan contract to the Stone or Duchene trade.

Your argument still isn't valid and you really didn't answer my post. You claim the Sens are unable to sign their key players because of the poor attendance and you blame the fanbase for this, but why are the Arizona Coyotes able to keep their key players and attract free agents with an attendance that's about half of what the Sens get AND they have had no playoff revenue in what 5 years? (please don't say weather, I know someone will)

Resigning OEL was a non issue, I am sure resigning Galchenyuk will also be a non issue. Only in Ottawa do we not retain our star players because according to you and a few others, we are bad fans. .

I am not sure about next year yet.

I did answer your question. You just didn't like it or agree. Ryan is within a million of OEL's extension. Stone too. Ottawa has had decent revenues but going to the next step of signing Stone and Duchene, and to a lesser extent Dzingel, will rely more on revenues. Arizona singed one guy. One. Ottawa can do that. three is a different challenge. That requires better revenues than Arizona. And Arizona receives the highest equalization payments in the NHL, with Ottawa soon to join that sorry group. No one knows how that will help the Sens, as I imagine it will. I have seen numbers as high as 10M.

We can revisit this when we see what happens with Stone and Duchene.

 

[coladin]

Hmmmm, imagine if we didn't give both of our goalies big money extensions , or if Zach Smith was allowed to walk or was moved instead of signing a multi year multi million dollar extension with a big picture plan of saving money so that we could resign Karlsson, Turris/Duchene, Stone, etc. Imagine if this organization actually had a "plan" and not this mythical non-existant "plan" Dorion keeps referring to.

I could go on, imagine acquiring draft picks to help this supposed "rebuild" instead of a 4 million dollar player in the downswing of his career. Another 4 million saved for a supposed "budget team" where we could use the money to pay Stone or Duchene or even Karlsson for that matter....not trading for Burrows would have meant even more money saved...

Lots of bad bad contracts handed out to marginal players throughout the years, yet not enough money to resign our stars! Fantastic business model!

We aren't the first organization to have some bad contracts, and certainly won't be the last. Granted.

The plan was to "go for it" and it laughably imploded in fantastic fashion last year. Brutal, right? They were thinking Duchene was the missing link. Shit happens.

Hopefully, by weeding out bad contracts and going younger with an established core, thing may not be as dire moving forward.

 

[hawthy]

BEERS!?

I'd be down for "hot water in the washroom" themed nights; or "fully staffed event employees" theme nights. Have those returned, serious question, for those who are going to games presently?

 

[coladin]

I'd be down for "hot water in the washroom" themed nights; or "fully staffed event employees" theme nights. Have those returned, serious question, for those who are going to games presently?

No to hot water, and , honestly, with 12K in attendance, ushers seem pleniful!

 

[BatherSeason]

I am not sure about next year yet.

I did answer your question. You just didn't like it or agree. Ryan is within a million of OEL's extension. Stone too. Ottawa has had decent revenues but going to the next step of signing Stone and Duchene, and to a lesser extent Dzingel, will rely more on revenues. Arizona singed one guy. One. Ottawa can do that. three is a different challenge. That requires better revenues than Arizona. And Arizona receives the highest equalization payments in the NHL, with Ottawa soon to join that sorry group. No one knows how that will help the Sens, as I imagine it will. I have seen numbers as high as 10M.

We can revisit this when we see what happens with Stone and Duchene.

I apologize, I missed this post, but I think I answered it in another thread.

This year the Coyotes had added salary via trades and added a solid free agents tender in Raata. They are trending in the right direction, the Ottawa Senators are not, unless they prove everyone wrong and announce extensions for both Duchene and Stone.

 

[BatherSeason]

No to hot water, and , honestly, with 12K in attendance, ushers seem pleniful!

Heck, even Free Wifi night wouldn't be so bad.

 

[hawthy]

No to hot water, and , honestly, with 12K in attendance, ushers seem pleniful!

Thanks.

When I held tickets in the more recent years (as late as last year), I'd make a point of interacting with people who work there, casually: ushers, aramark/vendors employees, custodians, security, etc. The message was clear over numerous interactions, but specific to the ushers who you singled out, that they were woefully understaffed (yes, I would ask). From my own observation, the reduction in ushers had happened before attendance numbers dropped off. I verified this one game in talking with an older usher (I assume from her presumed age, she had been there a while, anyway), who said they were cutting back on event staffing for several years. She toed the line carefully (I don't blame her), but she was nonetheless candid.

The ushers must seem plentiful now, but this is another chicken/egg thing: from my experiences, staff cuts were happening at all levels for longer than would allow the argument to support the link between attendance and staffing cuts. I mean, Melnyk himself said they were running a bare bones front office. We also know they were running a bare-bones game day operations staff, to me, to the detriment of those who went. Hearing these people, themselves, validate the speculation, although not surprising, was telling.

My seats for regular season games were mostly 100s and 200s corners/ends, while I tended to shift up higher for playoff games (aside from treating myself to a game or two down low in the spring). I noticed, going back to 2013 at a minimum Sens/Habs ECQF, that there were no ushers in many sections of a sold out venue. It definitely impacts the experience, as generally the masses are ignorant, hence the need for flow-control.

No, this is not why I'm not buying tickets currently, but many, many scalpel nicks (some sharper than others) are the reason.

To be honest, I'll give them credit for trying new things with the whole "date night" or whatever it is. I mean, I think it'll fail, but I recognize that they're trying SOMETHING. I'm glad they are trying new things; that's a start. I do agree with those who said it smells kind of like the Renegades "mardi-gras" nights - I know it's not - but it still seems a bit tone deaf to what actually needs fixing, which is the parallel I'm drawing. I don't think boobs will be popping out at CTC - though this is Melnyk's team - you never know what the next idea might be.

In any case, without a doubt, they were slashing these types of things for a long time. Longer than can be explained away correlating it to attendance. I know you didn't say this in your post, I just have a tendency to springboard when I post lol.

 

[Grizwald]

Thanks.

When I held tickets in the more recent years (as late as last year), I'd make a point of interacting with people who work there, casually: ushers, aramark/vendors employees, custodians, security, etc. The message was clear over numerous interactions, but specific to the ushers who you singled out, that they were woefully understaffed (yes, I would ask). From my own observation, the reduction in ushers had happened before attendance numbers dropped off. I verified this one game in talking with an older usher (I assume from her presumed age, she had been there a while, anyway), who said they were cutting back on event staffing for several years. She toed the line carefully (I don't blame her), but she was nonetheless candid.

The ushers must seem plentiful now, but this is another chicken/egg thing: from my experiences, staff cuts were happening at all levels for longer than would allow the argument to support the link between attendance and staffing cuts. I mean, Melnyk himself said they were running a bare bones front office. We also know they were running a bare-bones game day operations staff, to me, to the detriment of those who went. Hearing these people, themselves, validate the speculation, although not surprising, was telling.

My seats for regular season games were mostly 100s and 200s corners/ends, while I tended to shift up higher for playoff games (aside from treating myself to a game or two down low in the spring). I noticed, going back to 2013 at a minimum Sens/Habs ECQF, that there were no ushers in many sections of a sold out venue. It definitely impacts the experience, as generally the masses are ignorant, hence the need for flow-control.

No, this is not why I'm not buying tickets currently, but many, many scalpel nicks (some sharper than others) are the reason.

To be honest, I'll give them credit for trying new things with the whole "date night" or whatever it is. I mean, I think it'll fail, but I recognize that they're trying SOMETHING. I'm glad they are trying new things; that's a start. I do agree with those who said it smells kind of like the Renegades "mardi-gras" nights - I know it's not - but it still seems a bit tone deaf to what actually needs fixing, which is the parallel I'm drawing. I don't think boobs will be popping out at CTC - though this is Melnyk's team - you never know what the next idea might be.

In any case, without a doubt, they were slashing these types of things for a long time. Longer than can be explained away correlating it to attendance. I know you didn't say this in your post, I just have a tendency to springboard when I post lol.

My impression over the last five years or so is Melnyk is operating the team the way a business would be when in liquidation and just before insolvency - it's apparent and as you've mentioned has affected the game day experience - and Melnyk is hoping to hang on long enough to succeed at Lebreton, highly doubtful and he'll need a miracle in my eyes to pull that off. Combine that with fan mistrust and the Sens are lucky when they get 15k per game. Poor or lack of marketing has also caused the Senators to be second last in corporate ticket sales in the NHL.

I believe 2019 will be the most critical year in Senators' history, i.e. the status of three star free agents and an expected NCC update on the progress (or lack thereof) with the new arena, because the franchise cannot continue to operate the way it has been over the past several years, especially at the owner/managerial level. Thankfully there's currently a lot of young, albeit very inexpensive, talent on the Sens' roster that's providing a ray of hope for the future.

Unfortunately, though, at the moment we're still left with Melnyk running the show, and let's just say that doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about the Sens' future let alone any new arena. I really hope I'm wrong.

 

[coladin]

Thanks.

When I held tickets in the more recent years (as late as last year), I'd make a point of interacting with people who work there, casually: ushers, aramark/vendors employees, custodians, security, etc. The message was clear over numerous interactions, but specific to the ushers who you singled out, that they were woefully understaffed (yes, I would ask). From my own observation, the reduction in ushers had happened before attendance numbers dropped off. I verified this one game in talking with an older usher (I assume from her presumed age, she had been there a while, anyway), who said they were cutting back on event staffing for several years. She toed the line carefully (I don't blame her), but she was nonetheless candid.

The ushers must seem plentiful now, but this is another chicken/egg thing: from my experiences, staff cuts were happening at all levels for longer than would allow the argument to support the link between attendance and staffing cuts. I mean, Melnyk himself said they were running a bare bones front office. We also know they were running a bare-bones game day operations staff, to me, to the detriment of those who went. Hearing these people, themselves, validate the speculation, although not surprising, was telling.

My seats for regular season games were mostly 100s and 200s corners/ends, while I tended to shift up higher for playoff games (aside from treating myself to a game or two down low in the spring). I noticed, going back to 2013 at a minimum Sens/Habs ECQF, that there were no ushers in many sections of a sold out venue. It definitely impacts the experience, as generally the masses are ignorant, hence the need for flow-control.

No, this is not why I'm not buying tickets currently, but many, many scalpel nicks (some sharper than others) are the reason.

To be honest, I'll give them credit for trying new things with the whole "date night" or whatever it is. I mean, I think it'll fail, but I recognize that they're trying SOMETHING. I'm glad they are trying new things; that's a start. I do agree with those who said it smells kind of like the Renegades "mardi-gras" nights - I know it's not - but it still seems a bit tone deaf to what actually needs fixing, which is the parallel I'm drawing. I don't think boobs will be popping out at CTC - though this is Melnyk's team - you never know what the next idea might be.

In any case, without a doubt, they were slashing these types of things for a long time. Longer than can be explained away correlating it to attendance. I know you didn't say this in your post, I just have a tendency to springboard when I post lol.

We've had the usher with the mohawk for as long as I can remember. And yes, the cut a bunch of staff trying to cut costs.

It is amazing what people will do when there are no ushers. Walk whenever they want mid play. Go in through the exits to the washrooms. It is like society needs to be reigned in at all times lol. So aggravating.

They have new intermission games, better music and still waiting for that DJ to come back, he was awesome!

 

[BonkTastic]

We've had the usher with the mohawk for as long as I can remember.

Oh, that's Mark, I believe.

You lucked out, he's one of the best ushers in the building. Dude's been there forever, and always looks out for the folks in his sections.

 

[coladin]

Oh, that's Mark, I believe.

You lucked out, he's one of the best ushers in the building. Dude's been there forever, and always looks out for the folks in his sections.

That's right, Mark! In our section. We have a lot of seniors and he is sure to look after them.

 

[BonkTastic]

That's right, Mark! In our section. We have a lot of seniors and he is sure to look after them.

Yeah, Mark's a good dude. Probably been at the arena longer than 95% of the other ushers, too. I can think of maybe... 2 people who have been there longer than him.

That guy has seen some things, lol.

 

[mat_sens]

At what point does the NHL have to step in and investigate?

If there's any links to the Sens, this isn't a good image for the NHL. Using Russian/Trump tactics to attack the local media and spew false facts.

Brutal.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

At what point does the NHL have to step in and investigate?

If there's any links to the Sens, this isn't a good image for the NHL. Using Russian/Trump tactics to attack the local media and spew false facts.

Brutal.

To be honest, I’m finding the media just as silly (as whoever is responsible) to be emphasizing on this.

 

[foggyvisor]

To be honest, I’m finding the media just as silly (as whoever is responsible) to be emphasizing on this.

Why?

Disinformation campaigns are a big deal right now. We can't afford to let it just become an acceptable thing.

 

[Bileur]

To be honest, I’m finding the media just as silly (as whoever is responsible) to be emphasizing on this.

Come on, in 2018’s climate with twitter burner accounts leading to the resignation of an NBA GM, and Russian twitter bots influencing elections all over the world, this is a huge story. If anything it’s underreported.

 

[BonkTastic]

To be honest, I’m finding the media just as silly (as whoever is responsible) to be emphasizing on this.

It's specifically a piece of news that is relevant to this specific market.

Why is it silly? I'm not arguing for the sake of argument here either, I'm legitimately curious to know why you feel that it's silly for a newspaper to report news.

If anything, this is probably a national sports story, if true. It's relelvant to anyone who lives in Ottawa (so it has local merit), and relevant to anyone who follows hockey (so has national relevance if it gets to that point).

ALSO:
I want to really focus on this one point you make here:

... the media just as silly (as whoever is responsible) to be emphasizing on this.

So let me get this straight... You think the media reporting on news to be equally silly as the person or people responsible for an organized, malicious bot attack against someone to falsely discredit them?

Really? Really? So reporting on a bad thing that happened is just as bad as the bad thing itself? I think you really, really needed to pick your words better there, chief.

 

[mat_sens]

To be honest, I’m finding the media just as silly (as whoever is responsible) to be emphasizing on this.

If anything it's underreported. This same tactic is being used to undermine our democracy.

I will not tolerate it if an nHL team using the same tactic to undermine our local media. This is the stuff that Ottawa Citizen should be reporting on.

And hopefully, the fans and media requests a formal investigation from the NHL

 

[foggyvisor]

It's actually a way more interesting story than Ubergate itself.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Why?

Disinformation campaigns are a big deal right now. We can't afford to let it just become an acceptable thing.

Disinformation? Really?