Post-Game Talk: Built. Different.

[joestevens29]

You have to exclude puck over glass penalties. Those are not subjective.

You'd think that, but we've seen some funny things with puck over the glass

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

Great all around effort. Would love Oil fans on here and Twitter stop blaming the refs. Calls even out over time.

I would love oil fans to not stop calling out the horrible officiating.. how can anyone be blaming the refs they won… Fact is the officiating is sub par in this league and they should be held to the fire…. That was a horrible display with the faceoffs and Goalie interference. It should be called out the league should be better

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

You'd think that, but we've seen some funny things with puck over the glass

Like Walman when he hit the glass, the linesman agreed, we heard it on the broadcast, but the refs decided the game wasn't managed enough lol

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

I love this team, I love this fan base, I love these crazy boards

All these years, would be so nice to share this together

Oh yeah, I love this country too. Win it for Canada and then let’s take gold!!

 

[joestevens29]

It’s funny because that was the one signing on July 1 that everyone had a collective WTF. Turns out it was the best of the deals made that day.

It was kind of an obvious one. Connor and Leon like him and his contract was pretty small that I believe didn't have a NMC so he could be buried in the AHL

 

[McBeastMode]

Would love to know the decibel level in there

Just wait till we have the game out of reach with 5 minutes left in game 5, to win the cup..

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I would love oil fans to not stop calling out the horrible officiating.. how can anyone be blaming the refs they won… Fact is the officiating is sub par in this league and they should be held to the fire…. That was a horrible display with the faceoffs and Goalie interference. It should be called out the league should be better

Like I keep saying, the whole crew was terrible, which the Oilers did benefit from a bit. And that "goal" I suspect head office make a call for "reasons"

 

[joestevens29]

Put your litter box beside the TV

I put the tv next to the litter box

 

[iCanada]

Normally we agree on almost anything. I think you lost your way on this one. Theres no way its more egregious than the Kesler one. Kesler actually grabbed the goalie. That wasn't even subjective, it was blatant. It wasn't even disguised. It was an undisputed action, and I think visually, implied intent at least.

In anycase we're talking about a goal being erased from the board, that was allowed in real time so that the play involves overturning. Theres never going to be 98% in that. Just the fact that its an overturn involved.

Also the challenge didn't work, it didn't erase the goal, and it did cause the next pk and goal. I think sometimes, and it happens to all of us, we just get set in what our opinion is. Theres several reasons which I listed that you don't make that challenge. The number 1 being its compounding potential swing in the momentum game of hockey.

the Oilers are good enough that you should not challenge that goal and just allow the Oilers to get the lead back. Ultimately it made us come from behind which is more difficult, generally.

Yeah. I dunno, I see the argument. I think you're probably right on Kesler vs this one.

I still think objectively, that that goal should never stand. For me it really comes down to how far away the contact with kulak is made in combination with Bennett both regaining balance then falling right when he's in the area to hit the Goaltender - again spinning opposite of where his momentum sounds be leading him if he tripped over Kulaks skate then leaned the other way to stay on his feet. The smoking gun to me is that he regains his balance - is stable - and then out of no where falls.

Its basically this;

The other thing for me is just the exact wording of the rulebook - in order for the contact to not wipe off the goal he both needs to be fouled and make an effort to avoid the Goaltender.

One - I think the idea that kulak fouled him at all is kind of dubious at best. By the rulebooks own definition - it means they'd have to have thought there was a penalty on the play. Rule 57.1 is pretty clear that accidental trips that are the result of two players colliding incidentally are not to be considered fouls. Further to that, kulak doesn't stick his leg out or otherwise "place the stick, knee, foot, arm, hand or elbow in such a manner that causes his opponent to trip or fall"; if anything it's Bennett that is placing himself in a way that makes contact with Kulak. To me that should go in your favor like 80%.

Two - I didn't really see any attempt from Bennett to avoid the contact with Skinner. But even here being gracious - I think you get this in your favor 50% of the time atleast.

On those two basis - I figure you have a 90% chance of winning that challenge and capturing a huge amount of momentum plus a goal, and a 10% chance of losing momentum + giving the goal + the penalty. Even if you assume you get scored on at twice the normal rate on the pk of our admittedly bad pk, you're only getting scored on 70% of the time. In that regard I figure you have a 0.9 xGF & 0.2 xGA expected value of making the challenge - on that basis I make it every single time because you're at +0.7 goals.

If you have slightly different math on the foul - it changes things a little bit, but not a ton. Say you think it's 50% chance that they rule it a foul - your expected results are still 0.75 xGF and 0.43 xGA - I still think you make the challenge every time; you're at +0.32 goals.

I see what you're saying about if you trust your team - let it ride. I think that's a fair argument. But I think the expected value there is 0 xGF and 1 xGA, every time - -1.0 goals.

I also think you can make the same argument that if you trust your team - even if the worst happens and you end up with 2 GA - you still have a chance to stabilize and ultimately win the game. Which - is what we saw happen.

But I see / understand your perspective.

 

[Little Fury]

Frederic wasn't good at anytime of the season this year. not sure if he isn't just one of those players that runs around and does well initially and then not much of anything.

Next Frederic has always been casper the ghost in the playoffs. just an ordinary playoff player. He doesn't get anything in postseason.

Team may not want to extend this player. Not just his production down but he was -16 this season on even limited play. He's just plain bad now.

I can't see Jeff Skinner being a worse option than Frederic, at least he has hands.

 

[Gregsky99]

Some might say... A Happy Ending!

That depends on the wife....

 

[joestevens29]

Like Walman when he hit the glass, the linesman agreed, we heard it on the broadcast, but the refs decided the game wasn't managed enough lol

There was one earlier the year on a Sunday where they were trying to figure out if it hit a guys jersey before going out, that was something

Then was it last round Dallas batted one out of the air over the glass, but it wasn't called

 

[bone]

Well whatever. It is the best hockey played. Try to enjoy it a little. Was a great game.

Harpoon: "I really need to call out Drive on something. really anything. So integral. lol

Drive: Wow I'm happy about this game, what a great game!

Harpoon: I'm here to piss on your parade. Stop happy joy

That game truly was a spectacle. Both teams played well defensively but still were able to generate enough offense against good defense to make it entertaining. Both goalies made enough saves to confidently say they did enough for their team to win, but neither to the point of stealing which sometimes taints a game. The physicallity was absurd (over 100 hits combined). And ultimately in the end, the team that won was likely the better team overall through the 78 minutes.

It was a perfect showcase for how good hockey can be.

 

[alanschu]

Any response is fair. We can't predict future. Perry didn't look good at several times last year. Its as if he rolled back the clock this year and is somehow far better, while being older. Perry has defied odds and then some. What we can't look off I guess is the man sure knows how to score goals.

On some level being an elite player means that stuff is always there, even if the physical traits start to decline. And that can help and those mental aspects can sure help.

 

[foshizzle]

He's really cleaned up his game this playoffs. He'll still make the occasional huge booboo like passing directly to the opponent in the slot without looking , but he's positioning himself better all over so it doesn't burn us.

He was great in the regular season too, he just gets an enormous amount of hate for some reason.

I mean his counting numbers were 4th on Dman scoring, 6th in PP scoring, +16. His advanced analytics were in the upper echelon, only 11% of his possessions were turnovers- good for 6th best in the league. He was about middle of the pack for giveaways resulting in goals (bad goaltending). Edmonton fans are hard on Dmen- but Bouchard is f***ing elite.

 

[aggressive forecheck]

1 goal was. I can't agree with you on being 2 because the Oilers chose that route, to challenge, and allowed the goal on the pk. I get what you mean but not gonna count 2.

Just to be clear I think the NHL should book history on such players and tactics as Bennett. But its crystal clear that they don't. The Oilers know that, that the NHL will be completely oblivious to anything Bennett does, he could be smashing a chair over a goalies head (jk, just making a reference) and the NHL would play 3 blind mice.

So that its possible to think both it was Bennett being Bennett, and that the NHL wasn't going to take the goal back.

With Bennett making goalie interference his avocation teams need 3 or even 4 goaltenders.

We already lost Pickard to injury on a "oopsie I fell on you" incident. Do you recall we lost Skinner via a knee to the head during the regular season.

My inquiry is "if the rules have changed and the NHL endorses goaltender interference and it's open season, why haven't the Oilers run Bobrovsky yet?"

 

[MessierThanThou]

With Bennett making goalie interference his avocation teams need 3 or even 4 goaltenders.

We already lost Pickard to injury on a "oopsie I fell on you" incident. Do you recall we lost Skinner via a knee to the head during the regular season.

My inquiry is "if the rules have changed and the NHL endorses goaltender interference and it's open season, why haven't the Oilers run Bobrovsky yet?"

I think Nurse should jump on Bob every chance he gets until Bob gets injured, and if Nurse earns a suspension for it...it's still a win because Stecher is better than him!

 

[bone]

Although they did call a phantom one on Walman earlier in the playoffs just for fun. Just memory wiping the linesman that said he heard it hit the glass, plus ignored how you could clearly see the puck change it's flight path hitting the top of the glass.

Good times

Walman deserved getting to laugh at Nosek last night

And the black streak that appeared on the glass immediately after the puck went over. It was magic.

 

[commie]

Thinking of spending the stupid amount of money it costs to get tickets to fly from TO to Edmonton for game 5. I live in London, but still leaf land. Anyone have any idea's on the best place to get a hotel room. Any gems to consider or what have you? Likely the play is to try and get into the Moss Pit to watch the game. My 17 year old son and I need to experience this crazy energy we keep seeing on TV.

If you are even thinking of going to Edmonton for games 5 or 7, book your hotel now, since most have generous cancellation policy. Most of the hotels in the downtown core (Marriott or Hilton chain) are already sold out. I am there next week, and had to book the Doubletree Hilton West, about 4.5 km from the arena.

Speaking of tickets to Games 5 and 7. I already got my tickets to game 2. Looking to buy tickets to games 5 and 7 off Fanfirst or Stubhub. What is the policy with regards to if the game is no longer required?
Like if I buy game 7 ticket off those sites now, and game 7 is not needed. Will I get the full amount back, or only what the original cost of the ticket?

 

[Drivesaitl]

On some level being an elite player means that stuff is always there, even if the physical traits start to decline. And that can help and those mental aspects can sure help.

Sure, you just never know. But part of my take on this sort of thing and aging is embedded by memories years ago of say Guy Lafleur, who I loved as a player going from being top of table to really pretty bad as he aged. Provided there were other things going on and he was a smoker. There used to be a related saying going "The first thing to go are the hands". Doesn't seem to be true in present day, and we're always adjusting perspectives to what we're seeing.

 

[Bumblebee Man]

Certainly not definitive like you are BrobergSpeed with a new moniker.

 

[oobga]

Bouchard had a couple of tough giveaways, fair point, if you think Bouchard was bad, then your only metric is giveaways because he was great again.

Hope we noticed how Florida was jumping behind our forwards flying the zone early. Bouch and the forwards played a part in one of the scariest giveaways. How do our forwards not pay any attention to Barkov darting in at our zone to cut off our D's passing options?

I believe in the Knob to figure all this stuff out. Optimistic we can be much better next game and leave less to chance.

 

[MessierThanThou]

He was great in the regular season too, he just gets an enormous amount of hate for some reason.

I mean his counting numbers were 4th on Dman scoring, 6th in PP scoring, +16. His advanced analytics were in the upper echelon, only 11% of his possessions were turnovers- good for 6th best in the league. He was about middle of the pack for giveaways resulting in goals (bad goaltending). Edmonton fans are hard on Dmen- but Bouchard is f***ing elite.

The best example of this idiocy is in the Bouchard thread, where his only remaining hater said Bouchard had a bad game last night because of one giveaway, ignoring literally every stat or metric that suggested Bouchard was among the very best players in the game.

 

[bone]

The only penalties these losers will call are pretty much the least important. High sticks that are almost always irrelevant to the play, puck over glass which is almost always irrelevant to the play, and blatant trips that have varying degrees of relevance, but they will call it every time nonetheless.

Basically if there is an outcome they can follow (player falls down, player hit in face, puck over boards), they will enthusiastically call it every time because there is no room for debate. A blatant hook? Blatant interference? Blatant roughing? Those require these clowns to actually do their job and make an interpretation and call it. Not to mention those are the penalties that actually have relevance to the flow of the game. They won't though.

I think in many ways the increased number of "automatic" penalties has impacted the game in that refs want to call less infractions that directly impact the play to keep the number of penalties down. It's a big reason I've made arguments about changing some of these automatic infractions to some new less impactful penalty/disadvantages so that penalties for real infractions get called more often.

 

[alanschu]

Sure, you just never know. But part of my take on this sort of thing and aging is embedded by memories years ago of say Guy Lafleur, who I loved as a player going from being top of table to really pretty bad as he aged. Provided there were other things going on and he was a smoker. There used to be a related saying going "The first thing to go are the hands". Doesn't seem to be true in present day, and we're always adjusting perspectives to what we're seeing.

Waaay before my time so I'll definitely defer to your experience for Flower there!