sawchuk1971
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2011
- 1,521
- 557
Building thru the draft and not spending on free agents, when did it start?
- Thread starter sawchuk1971
- Start date
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
If you mean post-2004, it seems to have started for some teams even before the lockout was over. Chicago’s an example of a team that, aside from a big splash on Khabibulin, acted like they wanted to do a slow-cook with young talent rather than try to fix it all with big contracts.
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
I don't think that's true at all, in fact, there's very little evidence to support the idea of teams spending their way to the Cup.
Beyond the 2002 Detroit Red Wings, who added Brett Hull, Luc Robitialle, Steve Duchene and Freddy Ouallsson I can't really think of any examples where I would say opening the wallet was the key to winning.
The Dallas Stars added UFA Ed Belfour and won a Cup in 1999, but when they started spending big on free agents like Pierre Turgeon and Donald Audette, the team faltered and failed to follow up that win.
The Ducks added Scott Niedermayer and won a Cup a year later, but there were no there free agent additions.
The Rangers spent big on free agents and failed and the Avalanche added Kariya and Selanne with no luck.
hangman005
It's my first day.
Took a pill in Sbisa
2showToffoliIwascool
Drafting definitely puts you on the inside track as proven by the modern dynasties but more than one way to win as proven by the last 2 cup winners.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
In this era the top teams had drafted franchise players in place then used excess revenue from playoff success to buy free agents to maintain their success. 'Building through the draft' has kind of been a thing as long as the draft has been around.
GeeoffBrown
Registered User
- Jul 6, 2007
- 6,287
- 4,325
Well, one thing is there's a salary cap now. Another thing is that the NHL clamped down on UFA contracts that were intended to circumvent the salary cap
Unrestricted free agency started with the 1995 CBA, so that's why it felt like a "new" thing at the time. Drafting and developing your own core was mostly what the Red Wings, Devils, Avs, and Stars did. Detroit and Dallas did get a couple guys in free agency. Colorado had money issues so for a few years they actually couldn't spend as much as they would have liked.
The other problem was that there were some very putrid drafts from 1992-2002. The collapse of the USSR and Czechoslovakia seemingly set those programs back a decade. And for whatever reason, Canada/US/Sweden had a rough stretch too.
Just taking Calgary from 1997-2002 as an example, they landed Daniel Tkaczuk, Rico Fata, Oleg Saprykin, Brent Krahn, Cbuck Kobasew, and Eric Nystrom with picks in the top 15. Even with hindsight those drafts weren't loaded with talent.
The 1995 CBA just became an enabler for the big markets to flex their pocket books. And as I remember it, the Canadian dollar had some issues in the mid-90s.
I think every team would have preferred to stay out of free agency. The rules at the time were that players over 31 could become Group III UFA. A lot of GMs didn't want to overpay for a guy possibly about to go downhill. Maybe a long winded way of saying that it wasn't necessarily a treasure trove every July 1st. Just looking at the highest few compensatory picks from each offseason:
1995: Dale Hawerchuk (Buffalo to St. Louis), Geoff Courtnall (Vancouver to St. Louis), Joel Otto (Calgary to Philadelphia)
1996: Wayne Gretzky (St. Louis to NY Rangers), Phil Housley (New Jersey to Washington)
1997: Mark Messier (NY Rangers to Vancouver), Rick Tocchet (Washington to Phoenix), Ed Belfour (San Jose to Dallas)
1998: Brett Hull (St. Louis to Dallas), Curtis Joseph (Edmonton to Toronto), Doug Gilmour (New Jersey to Chicago), Ron Francis (Pittsburgh to Carolina)
1999: Theo Fleury (Colorado to NY Rangers), Valeri Kamensky (Colorado to NY Rangers)
2000: Mark Messier (Vancouver to NY Rangers), Claude Lemieux (New Jersey to Phoenix), Vladimir Malakhov (New Jersey to NY Rangers)
2001: Jeremy Roenick (Phoenix to Philadelphia), Pierre Turgeon (St. Louis to Dallas), Alexander Mogilny (New Jersey to Toronto), Luc Robitaille (Los Angeles to Detroit), Brett Hull (Dallas to Detroit)
2002: Bobby Holik (New Jersey to NY Rangers), Bill Guerin (Boston to Dallas), Tony Amonte (Chicago to Phoenix), Robert Lang (Pittsburgh to Washington), Adam Oates (Philadelphia to Anaheim), Curtis Joseph (Toronto to Detroit), Ed Belfour (Dallas to Toronto)
2003: Sergei Fedorov (Detroit to Anaheim), Derian Hatcher (Dallas to Detroit), Teemu Selanne (San Jose to Colorado)
If anything, I think teams preferred to trade for a guy earlier in his prime. Unfortunately for most of the Canadian teams (and other small market clubs), they had to sell off some guys during that period:
Joe Nieuwendyk (1995): Calgary to Dallas
Teemu Selanne (1996): Winnipeg to Anaheim
Pavel Bure (1999): Vancouver to Florida
Ziggy Palffy (1999): NY Islanders to Los Angeles
Keith Tkachuk (2001): Phoenix to St. Louis
Alexei Yashin (2001): Ottawa to NY Islanders
Jaromir Jagr (2001): Pittsburgh to Washington
Edit: If only for the excuse for me to reminisce about the Devils peak years, here's a breakdown of their primary rosters in the 2000+2003 Cup.
Corey Schwab was the only free agent signing of the bunch who had NHL experience. Brian Rafalski and John Madden were undrafted free agents who didn't land huge rookie contracts. Everybody else was either drafted by the team, traded for somebody the Devils drafted, or acquired for a future draft pick.
Elias (draft) - Arnott (Guerin trade) - Sykora (draft)
Brylin (draft) - Gomez (draft) - Mogilny (Morrison/Pederson trade)
Pandolfo (draft) - Holik (Burke/Weinrich trade) - Lemieux (Rolston trade)
Nemchinov (draft pick trade) - Madden (undrafted free agent) - McKay (Crowder compensation)
Stevens (Shanahan compensation) - Rafalski (undrafted free agent)
Daneyko (draft) - Niedermayer (draft)
White (draft) - Malakhov (Souray trade)
Brodeur (draft) - Terreri (Bombardir trade)
===================
Elias (draft) - Gomez (draft) - Marshall (draft pick trade)
Friesen (Sykora trade) - Nieuwendyk (Arnott trade) - Langenbrunner (Arnott trade)
Pandolfo (draft) - Madden (undrafted free agent) - Gionta (draft)
Brylin (draft) - Rheaume (draft pick trade) - Stevenson (Oliwa trade)
Stevens (Shanahan compensation) - Rafalski (undrafted free agent)
White (draft) - Niedermayer (draft)
Daneyko (draft) - Tverdovsky (Sykora trade)
Brodeur (draft) - Schwab (free agent)
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frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
It's not quite the same thing, but the earliest example of a team appropriately valuing draft picks would be the Canadiens in the late 60s and 70s. They never had to do a straight up rebuild, but they would trade overvalued established talent to failing expansion teams who needed a quick fix.
That feeds into the Islanders, who had an opportunity to trade the Canadiens the Potvin pick, but opted to hold on to him and their other top players. They were a dynasty that was built directly through the draft. If you look at their championship winning teams, almost all the key players were drafted by the Islanders.
As far as a deliberate sell off to rebuild, it is probably more evident in the cap era because there is a life span and flow to a team that was created by the new RFA rules, as well as the cap ceiling.
That feeds into the Islanders, who had an opportunity to trade the Canadiens the Potvin pick, but opted to hold on to him and their other top players. They were a dynasty that was built directly through the draft. If you look at their championship winning teams, almost all the key players were drafted by the Islanders.
As far as a deliberate sell off to rebuild, it is probably more evident in the cap era because there is a life span and flow to a team that was created by the new RFA rules, as well as the cap ceiling.
JianYang
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
- 19,424
- 18,670
I think the free agent signings have always typically been supplements rather than the biggest piece to a championship team.
Even during pre cap, the highest spenders (who were successful) typically had am excellent domestic base to start with.
The wings had Yzerman, fedorov, lidstrom et al as their base
The avs had sakic, and forsberg.
The Rangers were an example of a big spender who didn't have that great of a base. The results speak for themselves.
Even during pre cap, the highest spenders (who were successful) typically had am excellent domestic base to start with.
The wings had Yzerman, fedorov, lidstrom et al as their base
The avs had sakic, and forsberg.
The Rangers were an example of a big spender who didn't have that great of a base. The results speak for themselves.
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