GDT: Game 31: Buffalo vs. Montreal, Dec 17th., 7 PM | TSN2, RDS, ESPN+, MSG-B

[teamfirst]

We can talk about things but put some perspective out there. We don't need to bury Dach and Newhook right away. We don't need to declare ourselves the next Sabres or Sens.

Same thing could be said the other way.

We don't need to defend Newhook-Dach trade cuz they really look bad right now

There's a whole lot of way too premature conclusions being drawn here and this negativity that is palpable on the board.

Same thing could be said the other way here too.

There's a whole lot of way too premature conclusions about the future of some of our prospects being drawn here and this day dreaming of our future is palpable on the board.

We all wanted this but now that a lot of the board got a taste of it, they don't want it anymore. Well, sorry but that's the reality and constantly evaluating everything at a micro level is only going to annoy ourselves.

Why is it so annoying, different opinion is all it is

 

[WeThreeKings]

Same thing could be said the other way.

We don't need to defend Newhook-Dach trade cuz they really look bad right now



Same thing could be said the other way here too.

There's a whole lot of way too premature conclusions about the future of some of our prospects being drawn here and this day dreaming of our future is palpable on the board.



Why is it so annoying, different opinion is all it is

It's people annoying themselves because they have an unreasonable expectation of where we should be this early in a rebuild.

The biggest mistake the regime has made is say they wanted to be in the mix, because that got people thinking they meant they'd actually be competing for the playoffs, and so that created this vacuum where everything is viewed through this lens and now we aren't there so we are the next Sabres.

Did people just think that they'd come in from an off-season and have Suzuki be a 100 pt C, Slafkovsky score 70 points, Caufield score 50 goals, Dach have no issues coming back from his injury and put up 60 pts as a 2C, Newhook would hit 70 points and Laine would just find his 40 goal form.. and they'd be the best team in the league?

Like they needed absolutely everything to break right to get into the mix.. most things are breaking wrong, that just means this year resets some expectations and changes the focus of the year.. it does not mean a mechanical error has been made in the rebuild itself. We've graduated two players so far from the rebuild.. one of them is a viable threat for the Calder and the other had 50 pts as a 19 year old last year.

 

[waitin425]

 

[Habs Halifax]

Look at the D (even with Dahlin) and tell me why the Sabres should improve? They have the same problems we do, too much development going on within the D core. Not enough proven workhorse power. Remember when some Habs fans said it was all Price but we had Weber/Chiarot/Petry/Eddy with Danault mix in? Come on man... this is the NHL! If your D core is young and lacks horsepower, it will create ripple effects and team confidence/momentum is affected. It's clear as day but some fans think skill/potential trumps maturity. It don't work that way unless you are Makar and for every Makar you have, you need studs to complement them with.

When you look at both the Habs and Sabres, you can clearly see the reasons why they are struggling to move up the standings. Team D is just as important as team offense. Ignoring one for the other is just dumb.

 

[teamfirst]

It's people annoying themselves because they have an unreasonable expectation of where we should be this early in a rebuild.

Again there's also people day dreaming themselves on the '' future is bright '' side, you're not complaining about those one.

Still just opinions.

The biggest mistake the regime has made is say they wanted to be in the mix, because that got people thinking they meant they'd actually be competing for the playoffs, and so that created this vacuum where everything is viewed through this lens and now we aren't there so we are the next Sabres.

Yup there's a few like that......just like there is quite a a few day dreamers, and by the way the biggest mistake was by far not picking Michkov .

Did people just think that they'd come in from an off-season and have Suzuki be a 100 pt C, Slafkovsky score 70 points, Caufield score 50 goals, Dach have no issues coming back from his injury and put up 60 pts as a 2C, Newhook would hit 70 points and Laine would just find his 40 goal form.. and they'd be the best team in the league?

Gross exageration, most just tought we would see some progression

Like they needed absolutely everything to break right to get into the mix.. most things are breaking wrong, that just means this year resets some expectations and changes the focus of the year.. it does not mean a mechanical error has been made in the rebuild itself. We've graduated two players so far from the rebuild.. one of them is a viable threat for the Calder and the other had 50 pts as a 19 year old last year.

That could be true, as well as other opinion could be true , it seems more to me like some get annoyed by people not seing eye to eye with them to me.

Anyway, seems pretty easy to me to understand that on a message board you will always have to deal with opinions that does not align with yours.

 

[Theodore450]

You weren't going to get a Reinbacher by trading Caufield. They did their math and said Michkov + Caufield trade isn't as valuable as Caufield + Reinbacher.

They could be wrong but nobody knows that right now.



It's entirely possible but it is way too early to be overtly concerned about it. We are at a spot in the rebuild where no other rebuild, except the Toronto Maple Leafs, got out of it and were in playoff contention. We saw how getting out of the rebuild too early for the Leafs has panned out for them.

We haven't even had Reinbacher or Demidov play a snap for the Habs yet. This consternation on being the next Sens/Sabres is way too premature.



We can talk about things but put some perspective out there. We don't need to bury Dach and Newhook right away. We don't need to declare ourselves the next Sabres or Sens.

There's a whole lot of way too premature conclusions being drawn here and this negativity that is palpable on the board.

This is what a rebuild looks like. Every rebuild that has ever rebuilded, they look like this. It's a painful process.

We all wanted this but now that a lot of the board got a taste of it, they don't want it anymore. Well, sorry but that's the reality and constantly evaluating everything at a micro level is only going to annoy ourselves.

You don't want to exit a rebuild too early like the Leafs and end up a pretender the whole time without the depth and defense to support the offensive talent.

You don't want to lose for too long and sustained like Sens and Buffalo.

You don't want to get so concerned about losing culture that you go out there and buy a bunch of overpaid FAs like Detroit and end up getting into no-man's land.

There's a bunch of ways to go wrong in a rebuild. Many of them fail. Many of them have to be reset and started again. Gotta accept that it's a painful process before it gets better.

You’re probably right.
But that’s just compounding a mistake in skill assessment.

Me personally, I had wanted to trade him for Dobson, but that ship has sailed

 

[The Real Timo]

You’re probably right.
But that’s just compounding a mistake in skill assessment.

Me personally, I had wanted to trade him for Dobson, but that ship has sailed

Can we still trade Dvorak for Michkov? I mean it will be a tough pill to swallow letting Dvo go, but what needs to be done, needs to be done.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Again there's also people day dreaming themselves on the '' future is bright '' side, you're not complaining about those one.

Still just opinions.



Yup there's a few like that......just like there is quite a a few day dreamers, and by the way the biggest mistake was by far not picking Michkov .


Gross exageration, most just tought we would see some progression



That could be true, as well as other opinion could be true , it seems more to me like some get annoyed by people not seing eye to eye with them to me.

Anyway, seems pretty easy to me to understand that on a message board you will always have to deal with opinions that does not align with yours.

I don't have a problem with opinions that don't align with mine.. I have a problem with doomsdaying every micro thing that happens and overreacting because things aren't just skyrocketing to the moon with no ups or downs.

That's not what rebuilds are. Things often times get worse before they get better. Players developing have peaks and valleys.

Teams will find what you are good at and then pre scout you and force you to find other ways to beat them. That is the process that Slafkovsky is going through right now.

You’re probably right.
But that’s just compounding a mistake in skill assessment.

Me personally, I had wanted to trade him for Dobson, but that ship has sailed

Lou was never gonna trade Dobson for Caufield.

 

[Chili]

Then they should’ve traded Caufield and rebuilt with talent

I think his answer also points out that you can have Point and Kucherov in a top six. Tampa realized they needed size to complement their group, which put them over the top. A number of bigger teams have won the Cup recently (Caps, Blues and especially Vegas). As far as trading someone like Caufield, why not? Would have to be a very enticing return though, he's an established young star within the team on a contract that could age well. The Habs look to be headed for another bottom finish so I don't know if they should have many untouchables. Free agency is the land of bad contracts so won't be surprised to see some big trades in the next few years, that's how Florida moved their needle forward big time.

 

[CharleyHorse]

It's people annoying themselves because they have an unreasonable expectation of where we should be this early in a rebuild.

The biggest mistake the regime has made is say they wanted to be in the mix, because that got people thinking they meant they'd actually be competing for the playoffs, and so that created this vacuum where everything is viewed through this lens and now we aren't there so we are the next Sabres.

Did people just think that they'd come in from an off-season and have Suzuki be a 100 pt C, Slafkovsky score 70 points, Caufield score 50 goals, Dach have no issues coming back from his injury and put up 60 pts as a 2C, Newhook would hit 70 points and Laine would just find his 40 goal form.. and they'd be the best team in the league?

Like they needed absolutely everything to break right to get into the mix.. most things are breaking wrong, that just means this year resets some expectations and changes the focus of the year.. it does not mean a mechanical error has been made in the rebuild itself. We've graduated two players so far from the rebuild.. one of them is a viable threat for the Calder and the other had 50 pts as a 19 year old last year.

I brought up a similar point in another thread. Last season, Rejean T (on a side note, good riddance to a petulant human being) asked the morning show crew on BPM about whether they’d hold the Habs accountable if they didn’t show major improvement 'next season'- meaning this one. That comment sparked a chain reaction among the press and fans, where one assumption led to another, and suddenly the expectation became that the Habs would already be contenders in Year 3 of the rebuild. Fact is, rebuilds are rarely linear, and short-term struggles do not equal long-term failure.

 

[GordonGraham]

What are we suppose to do here, just talk about how good our propect pool is, every one knows that until proven otherwise they are just prospect

I remember the days of stacked with prospects like Komisarek the Kostitsyn, Ribeiro Lapierre , Latendresse, Chipchura, Higgins Perezhogin Hainsey Obyrne Grabovski ........ they all turned out great

But back to tonights game line up out yet?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Montembeault gets his 7th straight start.

Imagine Monty gets hurt and Primeau is the starter

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Then they should’ve traded Caufield and rebuilt with talent

Yeah right , the same people crying now would be crying double if we did a full blown sell everything and rebuild for 8 years type of rebuild.


Having no patience for the rebuild is hilarious when we've been dogsh** icing absolutely putrid and embarassing rosters for 20 years lol

 

[Theodore450]

Yeah right , the same people crying now would be crying double if we did a full blown sell everything and rebuild for 8 years type of rebuild

That’s the kinda rebuild I expected/wanted.
Instead we made lateral moves like turning ex:
Lehk roster position into Newhook


You preach development, then develop as the team outlast its contracts and you sell on high performing vets.

Now we have underperforming vets (not playing in systems suitable for them)
And underperforming youth.

Thank god for Suzuki, cause this team would be beyond
cooked but I believe him to be a player that wants to win. When he gets older and starts demanding things from management, we’ll club out.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I remember the days of stacked with prospects like Komisarek the Kostitsyn, Ribeiro Lapierre , Latendresse, Chipchura, Higgins Perezhogin Hainsey Obyrne Grabovski ........ they all turned out great

But back to tonights game line up out yet?

I mean they all experienced various levels of success. Komisarek when paired with Markov was a legitimate top 4 defenseman. Sergei Kostitsyn was a legitimate middle 6 forward, as was his brother Andrei. Ribeiro had multiple years of being a productive top 6 center. Lapierre had a long career as a bottom 6 agitator. Latendresse had some good seasons in Minnesota. Chipchura was a cromulent 4C for a bit. Higgins had multiple 20 plus goal seasons and was a great depth scorer for teams in the end. Perezhogin did bust. Hainsey was a late career top 4 D. O'Byrne was a serviceable depth D. Grabovski had multiple seasons of top 6 C production before concussions ended his career prematurely.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

That’s the kinda rebuild I expected/wanted.
Instead we made lateral moves like turning ex:
Lehk roster position into Newhook


You preach development, then develop as the team outlast its contracts and you sell on high performing vets.

Now we have underperforming vets (not playing in systems suitable for them)
And underperforming youth.

Thank god for Suzuki, cause this team would be beyond
cooked but I believe him to be a player that wants to win. When he gets older and starts demanding things from management, we’ll club out.

I also wanted a full rebuild but what's the point of moving caufield or suzuki? We are finishing bottom 3-5 in the league WITH them , they are not hurting the rebuild , and there's no issue with us competing when they are hitting 30 years old.

 

[The Real Timo]

Imagine Monty gets hurt and Primeau is the starter

Prims will go on a 10-0 tear with 6 shutouts. I have a feeling.

 

[sampollock]

It's people annoying themselves because they have an unreasonable expectation of where we should be this early in a rebuild.

The biggest mistake the regime has made is say they wanted to be in the mix, because that got people thinking they meant they'd actually be competing for the playoffs, and so that created this vacuum where everything is viewed through this lens and now we aren't there so we are the next Sabres.

Did people just think that they'd come in from an off-season and have Suzuki be a 100 pt C, Slafkovsky score 70 points, Caufield score 50 goals, Dach have no issues coming back from his injury and put up 60 pts as a 2C, Newhook would hit 70 points and Laine would just find his 40 goal form.. and they'd be the best team in the league?

Like they needed absolutely everything to break right to get into the mix.. most things are breaking wrong, that just means this year resets some expectations and changes the focus of the year.. it does not mean a mechanical error has been made in the rebuild itself. We've graduated two players so far from the rebuild.. one of them is a viable threat for the Calder and the other had 50 pts as a 19 year old last year.

I think the main point is: I can handle losing in a rebuild but I can't handle poor work ethic
Work hard, keep trying no giving up is all I ask.
There will be bad games for sure, but overall there has to be a solid effort from the young guys

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think the main point is: I can handle losing in a rebuild but I can't handle poor work ethic
Work hard, keep trying no giving up is all I ask.
There will be bad games for sure, but overall there has to be a solid effort from the young guys

Fair enough - I too think Marty has been too soft on them which has led to some performances where they've given up.

 

[sampollock]

Fair enough - I too think Marty has been too soft on them which has led to some performances where they've given up.

yes I agree
He is grooming them as young guys to be stars in the NHL, but that should include press box instead of his good cop attitude all the time

 

[Saundies]

I think the main point is: I can handle losing in a rebuild but I can't handle poor work ethic
Work hard, keep trying no giving up is all I ask.
There will be bad games for sure, but overall there has to be a solid effort from the young guys

The main point is that they were supposed to take a step this year. No one expected or thought playoffs, even with all this 'in the mix' talk. But we did expect, and I believe rightly so, to be better. To take a step in the rebuild. Slaf looked like he was emerging, Laine was coming, Hutson was coming, Dach was coming back etc.

Instead they haven't looked better at all, and look worse in a lot of facets most nights. Go down by a goal? Might as well go down by another 2-3 in succession. Who cares? The coach doesn't, the players don't. MSL holds onto his timeouts like it costs him money everytime he calls one. And when he does, he rarely gets mad. There has to be a happy medium between the gentle-parenting technique and Michel Therrien.

You can only come out after getting your asses beat by 5, 6 goals (or after going down by 4 in the first period) so many times and claim you're embarrassed before I stop believing it. Last year, we sucked, but they tried hard and lost by 1 goal more often than not.

 

[sampollock]

The main point is that they were supposed to take a step this year. No one expected or thought playoffs, even with all this 'in the mix' talk. But we did expect, and I believe rightly so, to be better. To take a step in the rebuild. Slaf looked like he was emerging, Laine was coming, Hutson was coming, Dach was coming back etc.

Instead they haven't looked better at all, and look worse in a lot of facets most nights. Go down by a goal? Might as well go down by another 2-3 in succession. Who cares? The coach doesn't, the players don't. MSL holds onto his timeouts like it costs him money everytime he calls one. And when he does, he rarely gets mad. There has to be a happy medium between the gentle-parenting technique and Michel Therrien.

You can only come out after getting your asses beat by 5, 6 goals (or after going down by 4 in the first period) so many times and claim you're embarrassed before I stop believing it. Last year, we sucked, but they tried hard and lost by 1 goal more often than not.

there is the issue
no effort maybe that is totally on MSL for not making ones accountable

 

[WeThreeKings]

The main point is that they were supposed to take a step this year. No one expected or thought playoffs, even with all this 'in the mix' talk. But we did expect, and I believe rightly so, to be better. To take a step in the rebuild. Slaf looked like he was emerging, Laine was coming, Hutson was coming, Dach was coming back etc.

Instead they haven't looked better at all, and look worse in a lot of facets most nights. Go down by a goal? Might as well go down by another 2-3 in succession. Who cares? The coach doesn't, the players don't. MSL holds onto his timeouts like it costs him money everytime he calls one. And when he does, he rarely gets mad. There has to be a happy medium between the gentle-parenting technique and Michel Therrien.

You can only come out after getting your asses beat by 5, 6 goals (or after going down by 4 in the first period) so many times and claim you're embarrassed before I stop believing it. Last year, we sucked, but they tried hard and lost by 1 goal more often than not.

Sometimes you take a step back before you take a step forward. New Jersey took a MASSIVE step back last year and now look where they are this year. They might be a better team for having gone through that adversity.

Marty has done nothing to increase accountability and has been way too soft on his veterans, and hasn't tried enough punitive measures with Dach and Slaf regarding not moving their feet or shooting the puck. Sometimes your usage, playing time, etc. and what you have to do in practice is off of what you do in game. I don't think they haven't heard the importance of moving their feet or shooting the puck from anyone in the org before, this isn't new.

Marty needs to tell them if they aren't moving their feet, they aren't playing anymore.. and when practice starts, throw them on the other sheet of the ice with Adam Nicholas and bag skate their asses. If you don't want to move your feet in game, you are ONLY gonna be moving your feet in practice.

 

[The Real Timo]

Sometimes you take a step back before you take a step forward. New Jersey took a MASSIVE step back last year and now look where they are this year. They might be a better team for having gone through that adversity.

Marty has done nothing to increase accountability and has been way too soft on his veterans, and hasn't tried enough punitive measures with Dach and Slaf regarding not moving their feet or shooting the puck. Sometimes your usage, playing time, etc. and what you have to do in practice is off of what you do in game. I don't think they haven't heard the importance of moving their feet or shooting the puck from anyone in the org before, this isn't new.

Marty needs to tell them if they aren't moving their feet, they aren't playing anymore.. and when practice starts, throw them on the other sheet of the ice with Adam Nicholas and bag skate their asses. If you don't want to move your feet in game, you are ONLY gonna be moving your feet in practice.

See... you can coach the Habs. It's not that hard. Really isn't

 

[Rapala]

Sometimes you take a step back before you take a step forward. New Jersey took a MASSIVE step back last year and now look where they are this year. They might be a better team for having gone through that adversity.

Marty has done nothing to increase accountability and has been way too soft on his veterans, and hasn't tried enough punitive measures with Dach and Slaf regarding not moving their feet or shooting the puck. Sometimes your usage, playing time, etc. and what you have to do in practice is off of what you do in game. I don't think they haven't heard the importance of moving their feet or shooting the puck from anyone in the org before, this isn't new.

Marty needs to tell them if they aren't moving their feet, they aren't playing anymore.. and when practice starts, throw them on the other sheet of the ice with Adam Nicholas and bag skate their asses. If you don't want to move your feet in game, you are ONLY gonna be moving your feet in practice.

I don't count New Jersey as a good example.
Three seasons ago their coach talked about how many close games they were in but not getting the results.
The following season they broke in a big way and made the playoffs.
Goaltending did them in last season so they essentially fell back from a position of success.

We talked about how many one goal games we were in last season but we obviously were never going to break like Jersey did.
However I think most people expected gains and we just aren't seeing them yet and the reasons really don't matter.
The sentiment is not the same. If we fall back it won't be from a position of success.