Player Discussion Buffalo Pickers - The Search For Serviceable Defensemen, Summer of '23 Edition

[Zman5778]

Stillman might be the #6 dman if Joker gets traded. I know Donny feels he can get more from him. His adaption to playing for us got derailed by getting injured fighting Jeannot. It led to minimal ice time after. But next season is a fresh start for him.

But if Joker is here, there is no way he sits for Stillman or Boosh.

Stillman might be the 3rd pairing LHD even if Joker doesn't get traded. While it's well established that Dahlin/Sammy/Power are all kind of "positionless"............I don't think that Joker can play his off-side very well at all.

If EJ can play the left-side well enough, maybe he and Joker form a bit of positionless pair.......but it's FAR FAR FAR easier for a lefty to play both sides than a righty.

 

[Chainshot]

The issue with Stillman is that they didn't trust him in their PKing scheme. Clifton is going to soak PK time but I have doubts that Stillman is in the mix with how they PK'd him.

 

[Fjordsen]

The issue with Stillman is that they didn't trust him in their PKing scheme. Clifton is going to soak PK time but I have doubts that Stillman is in the mix with how they PK'd him.

Then why is it needed at all? Although our PK sucks, I hope Clifton and EJ will help with this, but coaching is involved in this and it seems to be the same.

 

[Chainshot]

Then why is it needed at all? Although our PK sucks, I hope Clifton and EJ will help with this, but coaching is involved in this and it seems to be the same.

When he came in, they talked about him offering something they had lost with Fitz being claimed on waivers - he's game to throw hands. He's not good at it, isn't going to really scare anyone, but he will throw a hit and defend a teammate and that's something they didn't have in their mix. It's not a bad thing to have in a #7.

 

[Fjordsen]

When he came in, they talked about him offering something they had lost with Fitz being claimed on waivers - he's game to throw hands. He's not good at it, isn't going to really scare anyone, but he will throw a hit and defend a teammate and that's something they didn't have in their mix. It's not a bad thing to have in a #7.

Well, usually such a defender also plays on PK, let's see what role he will have next season.

 

[joshjull]

Stillman might be the 3rd pairing LHD even if Joker doesn't get traded. While it's well established that Dahlin/Sammy/Power are all kind of "positionless"............I don't think that Joker can play his off-side very well at all.

If EJ can play the left-side well enough, maybe he and Joker form a bit of positionless pair.......but it's FAR FAR FAR easier for a lefty to play both sides than a righty.

It’s not easier for a lefty, the mechanics and adaption issues are the same. Its just more common with lefties since there are more of them, especially top 4 options.

It would be more accurate to say Joker is probably not as comfortable on his offhand since he hasn’t been asked to play there much. Asking him to get used to it in camp should get him comfortable enough to start the season. Its not exactly splitting the atom.

Joker has played basically top pairing minutes the last two seasons for this coaching staff. He shouldn’t have but he did. I can’t see them sitting him for a 6/7 defenseman simply because he’s on his off hand. Something he should be able to adapt to given time.

 

[joshjull]

The issue with Stillman is that they didn't trust him in their PKing scheme. Clifton is going to soak PK time but I have doubts that Stillman is in the mix with how they PK'd him.

I wonder how much getting his clock cleaned impacted his usage. Its hard to jump to a new team and get comfortable, even more so when you get your brain scrambled not long after arriving.

 

[Chainshot]

Well, usually such a defender also plays on PK, let's see what role he will have next season.

That was my thought too but we see the TOI and he was not in their PK rotation at all.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

Sorry, but I think it's nonsense, different players get into the UFA. This may or may not work. I trust eye test and statistics. I also believe in Granato that he can reveal players very well.

Not saying Clifton can't become a top 4d, but I feel like people, myself included, were saying similar things about Boosh last year.

I still think we need a RD who we know can log 20+ minutes at a high level to compete for a cup, and another window has come and gone without getting that.

I like Clifton. No problem with bringing EJ in. Just wish Adams would be little more aggressive after saying "I want to win really bad."

Depth is also good, but I'm hoping this doesn't keep Ryan Johnson down longer than he needs to be. Still optimistic that he can a big piece for the D.

 

[Fjordsen]

Not saying Clifton can't become a top 4d, but I feel like people, myself included, were saying similar things about Boosh last year.

I still think we need a RD who we know can log 20+ minutes at a high level to compete for a cup, and another window has come and gone without getting that.

I like Clifton. No problem with bringing EJ in. Just wish Adams would be little more aggressive after saying "I want to win really bad."

Depth is also good, but I'm hoping this doesn't keep Ryan Johnson down longer than he needs to be. Still optimistic that he can a big piece for the D.

Well Boosh had injury issues last season and probably yet he's not a top 4 D.

I agree that it would be more reliable to add Pesce or Hanifin for example, but here we are with Clifton and EJ and I think Adams is not going to do anything in defense anymore.

I originally said that Clifton could be a good wild card, he is not a legit top 4 D but his skills suit us, he is familiar with Granato, he played almost 18 minutes per game last season in the contender. He can play defense, he seems faster than Boosh, he's very physical, he can help on PK, he's good in transition. I think these are attractive skills and a picture for a wild card.

 

[Jacob582]

Lance L:

"I don't think Jokiharju is going anywhere. I don't think Stillman is going anywhere. I think this is going to come down to do they get an offer for Lyubushkin that can get them a forward.....is Bryson a throw in?"

 

[BUCKSHOT]

Lance L:

"I don't think Jokiharju is going anywhere. I don't think Stillman is going anywhere. I think this is going to come down to do they get an offer for Lyubushkin that can get them a forward.....is Bryson a throw in?"

Not sure Lance has any inside info ....

He was dead wrong on Ryan Johnson

Adams and company run a pretty tight ship

 

[Jacob582]

Not sure Lance has any inside info ....

He was dead wrong on Ryan Johnson

Adams and company run a pretty tight ship

Everyone was dead wrong on Ryan Johnson.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

Everyone was dead wrong on Ryan Johnson.

not everyone, some 'insiders' didn't guess like Lance did

They just said they didn't know which way it was going to go

 

[BuffaloGooner]

Lance L:

"I don't think Jokiharju is going anywhere. I don't think Stillman is going anywhere. I think this is going to come down to do they get an offer for Lyubushkin that can get them a forward.....is Bryson a throw in?"

Nobody is trading for Jacob Bryson lol

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

not everyone, some 'insiders' didn't guess like Lance did

They just said they didn't know which way it was going to go

I feel like most "insiders" were guessing but to your point, Lance was adamant Johnson was walking through his columns, tweets and on Maintenance Day.

 

[Uberpecker]

We'll find out soon enough but signing Clifton and EJ were the correct moves IMO, at least in principle.

You don't draft D 1st OA twice within three years only to have to pair them with high priced UFAs/trade targets.

For players like Dahlin and Power (are there even "players like Dahlin and Power"?) you wanna find well suited complementary partners, the next Methot or Stralman, not another superstar.

Clifton may as well be that, Dumba or Mayfield could have worked, too.

Joki wasn't ideal, probably partially due to age, but he wasn't as horrible as some make it out to be, either. Your rookie partner doesn't become a Calder finalist if you are a complete no-show.

 

[Ace]

not everyone, some 'insiders' didn't guess like Lance did

They just said they didn't know which way it was going to go

This has been covered a dozen times. Lance repeatedly said he had heard Johnson wasn’t signing for over a year. Not only wasn’t it refuted by anyone…anyone else who was asked said it didn’t sound good.

Then on the exact same day every single other local reporter changed their tune to Johnson would sign so did Lance. Everyone. Mid season. Same day. Someone told them all something.

Then he sat back and like every single other person who covered the team said he had no idea why he hadn’t signed yet or what was taking him so long.

The last dozen times didn’t break through. This time won’t either

We'll find out soon enough but signing Clifton and EJ were the correct moves IMO, at least in principle.

You don't draft D 1st OA twice within three years only to have to pair them with high priced UFAs/trade targets.

For players like Dahlin and Power (are there even "players like Dahlin and Power"?) you wanna find well suited complementary partners, the next Methot or Stralman, not another superstar.

Clifton may as well be that, Dumba or Mayfield could have worked, too.

Joki wasn't ideal, probably partially due to age, but he wasn't as horrible as some make it out to be, either. Your rookie partner doesn't become a Calder finalist if you are a complete no-show.

For the love of the straw man…people aren’t saying they needed to get Cale Makar to pair with Power…they’re saying the least Adams needed to do was acquire someone who has proven they can handle 20+ minutes night in and night out. Because the person who plays with Power needs to be a minute eater. He didn’t.

 

[Fjordsen]

Lance L:

"I don't think Jokiharju is going anywhere. I don't think Stillman is going anywhere. I think this is going to come down to do they get an offer for Lyubushkin that can get them a forward.....is Bryson a throw in?"

I think we can still use Boosh, I don't know what's the point of making our depth worse again. EJ is an age-old player with a history of injury, he is likely to miss games. Stillman is not yet very trusted and does not play on PK. I would have probably traded Joki earlier, although I don't mind if they keep him and we have better depth.

 

[HaNotsri]

Victor Sjöholm is already one if the best defensive denfensemen 5vs5 in the SHL. Went undrafted because he's really, really small.
I think he'd be great for Rochester 24/25 if he can develop further this year.

Could be cheap organizational depth in 2-4 years. Hockey iq is elite, his body just isn't a match for the NHL but the way the game trends he could be down the line.

 

[HaNotsri]

Lance L:

"I don't think Jokiharju is going anywhere. I don't think Stillman is going anywhere. I think this is going to come down to do they get an offer for Lyubushkin that can get them a forward.....is Bryson a throw in?"

Jokiharju is a 24 year old RHD that is capable of playing on the bottom pairing. As tired as I am of Joker I'd only trade him if we get a legit top 4 d some other way.
I think he's more a victim of not being sheltered than anyone. Dahlin might be the best overall defenseman in the world and we all know what trials he has had to endure in Buffalo.

 

[joshjull]

I think we can still use Boosh, I don't know what's the point of making our depth worse again. EJ is an age-old player with a history of injury, he is likely to miss games. Stillman is not yet very trusted and does not play on PK. I would have probably traded Joki earlier, although I don't mind if they keep him and we have better depth.

Both of Boosh and Stillman weren’t trusted by the coaching staff down the stretch. The difference is Boosh was he was here all season. He did play through an injury at the start. But its not great for the coaches to lose confidence the more they get to see you.

They may feel with Stillman they have something to work with. It usually takes some time to adjust to a new team. Getting his clock cleaned in a fight and missing games right after arriving derailed that process. I don‘t know if there is much there outside of an upgrade on Bryson for the #7 spot. But I get why they might feel there might be a bit more.

I feel like most "insiders" were guessing but to your point, Lance was adamant Johnson was walking through his columns, tweets and on Maintenance Day.

Yep. He felt Johnson was going to walk and the team wasn’t worried about it because they valued the pick.

 

[Fjordsen]

Both of Boosh and Stillman weren’t trusted by the coaching staff down the stretch. The difference is Boosh was he was here all season. He did play through an injury at the start. But its not great for the coaches to lose confidence the more they get to see you.

They may feel with Stillman they have something to work with. It usually takes some time to adjust to a new team. Getting his clock cleaned in a fight and missing games right after arriving derailed that process. I don‘t know if there is much there outside of an upgrade on Bryson for the #7 spot. But I get why they might feel there might be a bit more.

I haven’t listened to Lance’s comments. So I don’t know if he was blindly speculating or passing this off as something he believes to be the case.

Yes, but he will be like an older brother for Kisakov, Neuchev and Novikov. Here, too, there are subtleties. Also don't forget that he had injury problems last season, he played with a broken leg.

 

[joshjull]

Not sure Lance has any inside info ....

He was dead wrong on Ryan Johnson

Adams and company run a pretty tight ship

Doesn’t read as though he framed it as insider info but what he thinks will happen.

 

[joshjull]

Yes, but he will be like an older brother for Kisakov, Neuchev and Novikov. Here, too, there are subtleties. Also don't forget that he had injury problems last season, he played with a broken leg.

I have no problem with Boosh. Just speculating why they may feel that way (if they even do). He averaged only 9mins a game during the final playoff push.