Confirmed with Link: [BUF/VGK] Jack Eichel & 3rd-2023(BUF) FOR Peyton Krebs, Alex Tuch, 1st-2022(VGK) & 2nd-2023(VGK)

[BG82]

There's just so much I disagree with in this post, I don't know where to start - so I'll start with this. I don't see the team leader or leaders pouting and putting out half hearted efforts and giving half assed answers to interview question. I don't see veterans pouting because they are not being gifted ice time. I don't see any pending free agents salivating at the chance to get traded to the team of their choice. I don't see a team quitting after a period or two and mailing it in.

This Sabres team has been the opposite of last year's team in all of the above and more. If you don't see that, I'm not sure what team you're watching.

Most hockey experts thought at the beginning of the year that this was likely to be a bottom 5 team - but it would be a fun team to watch. It is. Who cares if half the team will be gone next season. We went into the season knowing this was likely the case for the next couple of years. But the players who are here are playing the brand of hockey that was advertised and our coach has followed the philosophy he laid out. Our young core players are developing nicely thanks to this and they'll be supplemented over the next few seasons with more talent.

The culture on this team right now is as different from last year as night is from day. Is it mission accomplished? No. Culture has to change, and grow and be nurtured. We're off to a nice start. I see a bright future for this organization. Too bad for you that you don't.

Culture change leads to results not the other way around. I couldn't agree more with this post

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

Can the organization just for once do right by its fans and when Vegas comes to town don't even acknowledge the guy? I don't want some vomit inducing "tribute" to someone who accomplished absolutely nothing as a Sabre except force his way out of town for a fraction of his value.

Yup and then take it front and center to the media to put the team in a awkward position . Entitled little puke. I have zero respect for Judas. I don't give a damn about the no winning atmosphere that covered the club like a miasma. Elite players like Jack should be able to trascend stuff like that but him Risto ,o Reilly ,and yes even darling Samson never developed the mental toughness to battle through it and elevate their game. Start off strong then at the first sighting of Adversity they always folded. It was a bold bold move by Adams to jettison 3 of those mental midgets but damn he may of been onto something.

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

The team is marginally improved over last year.

This year: .382 points %
Last year: .362 Points %

Buffalo was floating around .500 last year until the Eichel injury happened and the rest of the team packed it in. Of course, it was a much more talented roster than this one. Are we more competitive night in and night out or are we simply comparing the best parts of this year vs the worst parts of last year?



I don't recall saying much negative about Granato other than I felt they needed to go get a more experienced coach and that they needed to take the post Krueger improvement with a grain of salt. He's done a decent job with a bad roster so far. Time will be the judge of the hire.

As for being 'noxious', The team hasn't made the playoffs in a decade. They are running the cheapest payroll in the NHL and the for our current GM, who is in charge of 'fixing' a decade of incompetence, they hired a no experience yes man whose sole qualification is he was willing to put families on the breadline during a global pandemic.

We've chased off a conn smythe winning center followed by a top 5 NHL center in the span of 5 years. Their crimes against the Sabres? Wanting to win. I don't begrudge people who want to be positive about a promising group of prospects. However, we've been here before. Several times. Until potential becomes realized and we have a winning team year after year, talk of the culture being fixed is silly. What irks me even more is people who blame players who left this team when the only real constant over the last decade has been ownership.

Also I find it humorous that my railing against Adams is a point of disagreement, yet Adams is the reason we don't have good goaltending. So is he a good GM or bad one? Not addressing an obvious offseason need with an ocean of cap dollars and oodles of picks and prospects? Or am I on a crusade now.

Also should point out the median team save % is .911

We have a team Sp of .904. An improvement of .007 Sp% would be 8 less goals against. So we'd be less bad, but still well outside the playoffs and likely still a few games under .500.

That was by far Adams biggest blemish ,not going out and getting a goalie. But Tokorski and Anderson played far above their heads and gave the youngsters time to develop. Now signing Aaron Dell was an unmitigated diaster who cost us crucial games.

As for O Reilly , as god as he was he most definitely sulked and mailed it in with the rest of them..I loved that guy but c'mon dude. If he would've stayed in Buffalo it would be the same shit " I've lost my love for hockey," sad violin antics.

We also had key injuries to start the season. Look dude I know years years of The Suck has withered and crumpled your soul but you're being friggin obtuse if you can't see that things are slowly turning around

 

[valet]

Yup and then take it front and center to the media to put the team in a awkward position . Entitled little puke. I have zero respect for Judas. I don't give a damn about the no winning atmosphere that covered the club like a miasma. Elite players like Jack should be able to trascend stuff like that but him Risto ,o Reilly ,and yes even darling Samson never developed the mental toughness to battle through it and elevate their game. Start off strong them at the first sighting of Adversity they always folded. It was a bold bold move by Adams to jettison 3 of those mental midgets but damn he may of been onto something.

adams did what no one else could before him in seeing that the core just wasn’t going to get it done, ever, and moving on. if this current group of players/prospects works out, that will be the thing that no one ever talks about or gives him credit for. but i think having the guts to be firm in your evaluation and do what’s best for the organization in the long term is the most important part of management. and aside from that, i think he’s drafted well, set the tone emotionally for the team, and built a great support staff behind him. so i expect a lot of good to come from this administration

 

[sabremike]

adams did what no one else could before him in seeing that the core just wasn’t going to get it done, ever, and moving on. if this current group of players/prospects works out, that will be the thing that no one ever talks about or gives him credit for. but i think having the guts to be firm in your evaluation and do what’s best for the organization in the long term is the most important part of management. and aside from that, i think he’s drafted well, set the tone emotionally for the team, and built a great support staff behind him. so i expect a lot of good to come from this administration

The 3 "core" guys he traded were Jack, Sam and Risto. Jack literally demanded a trade and the other two were a year from UFA (And the way Jason Bottulism walked Sam into that position is one of about a dozen reasons he should've received a lifetime ban from any executive position in the NHL). Getting rid of them wasn't KA's brilliant idea, he had no choice.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

As for O Reilly , as god as he was he most definitely sulked and mailed it in with the rest of them..I loved that guy but c'mon dude. If he would've stayed in Buffalo it would be the same shit " I've lost my love for hockey," sad violin antics.

I couldnt disagree with this more. Especially the bolded. That's just plain false.

 

[Chainshot]

I couldnt disagree with this more. Especially the bolded. That's just plain false.

Agreed. O'Reilly worked his ass off. Housley broke him by using him in defensive situations harder than guys like Bergeron were getting deployed.

So here we are with this thread completely off the rails.

Jack's gone. He got what he wanted.

 

[dasaybz]

The team is marginally improved over last year.

This year: .382 points %
Last year: .362 Points %

Buffalo was floating around .500 last year until the Eichel injury happened and the rest of the team packed it in. Of course, it was a much more talented roster than this one. Are we more competitive night in and night out or are we simply comparing the best parts of this year vs the worst parts of last year?



I don't recall saying much negative about Granato other than I felt they needed to go get a more experienced coach and that they needed to take the post Krueger improvement with a grain of salt. He's done a decent job with a bad roster so far. Time will be the judge of the hire.

As for being 'noxious', The team hasn't made the playoffs in a decade. They are running the cheapest payroll in the NHL and the for our current GM, who is in charge of 'fixing' a decade of incompetence, they hired a no experience yes man whose sole qualification is he was willing to put families on the breadline during a global pandemic.

We've chased off a conn smythe winning center followed by a top 5 NHL center in the span of 5 years. Their crimes against the Sabres? Wanting to win. I don't begrudge people who want to be positive about a promising group of prospects. However, we've been here before. Several times. Until potential becomes realized and we have a winning team year after year, talk of the culture being fixed is silly. What irks me even more is people who blame players who left this team when the only real constant over the last decade has been ownership.

Also I find it humorous that my railing against Adams is a point of disagreement, yet Adams is the reason we don't have good goaltending. So is he a good GM or bad one? Not addressing an obvious offseason need with an ocean of cap dollars and oodles of picks and prospects? Or am I on a crusade now.

Also should point out the median team save % is .911

We have a team Sp of .904. An improvement of .007 Sp% would be 8 less goals against. So we'd be less bad, but still well outside the playoffs and likely still a few games under .500.

Do you think they are embarrassed?

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

I couldnt disagree with this more. Especially the bolded. That's just plain false.

Maybe mail it in is hyperbole but he was right there inn the thick of the pity party

 

[TehDoak]

There is so much to unpack here...



At game 10, they were .500. They played the Devils who were dealing with COVID, got a bunch of players with COVID, and then were dogshit for the remainder of the season. Jack was hurt when he came to camp - still not sure how he broke a rib training - then hurt his neck. With him in the lineup, 6-12-2 and 6-14-3 overall when he hung it up.

I stand corrected on this point. We floated around .500 until the first COVID break, it went off the rails from there

Did you know that they made it to game 16 at .500 this year with a roster known to be foreshortened? People paid for their opinion on sports straight up called this the worst roster ever assembled during the off-season. That was without Jack and the distraction of his demand to be traded still hanging over the team.

They aren't being run out of the rink most nights (tonight is likely to be one of those nights but hey, strange things sometimes happen) and they are in games that they are losing. This is a step toward improving. Incremental improvement is happening with the hamstrung group they've assembled. If you can't see that, I don't know what you are watching which is why I question if you are watching them at all.

The rest of your post about O'Reilly and players who tried to win in a thread about the Eichel trade is just so far off this topic.

I'm well aware that we were .500 well into the season. However, that was mostly on a PP unit and goaltending that was unsustainable.

We aren't being run out of the rink on good nights. But the good nights are becoming less common as the season wears on as injuries/COVID/etc

I'm sorry but I'm well past cheering for "development" and incremental improvements. I've been doing that for a decade.

The facts of this season are simple:

We could have easily iced a better, more competitive team without mortgaging the future or hurting any of our young players development.

However, the facts of the season remain is the Sabres front office is selling "culture change" miracle cure tonic like snake oil salesmen while the reality is, this is about one thing and one thing only: running the team as cheaply as possible. The fact that the ownership is raking in tens of millions of dollars on the Bills profits yearly and not be willing to spend to put an even respectable product on the ice for the same fans. Heck, I wouldn't even have been mad had the Sabres gained assets to take on bad contracts for a year and the on ice results were the same. At least it would be putting the cap space to use. However, the team has shown its unwilling to spend to even improve the most dire on ice situations.

The idea that we as fans should be accepting of this insulting cap floor roster Adams has assembled after 10 years of just terrible teams and say "Look, we aren't in last place, CULTURE CHANGE, everything is going to be fine!"

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

As for O Reilly , as god as he was he most definitely sulked and mailed it in with the rest of them..I loved that guy but c'mon dude. If he would've stayed in Buffalo it would be the same shit " I've lost my love for hockey," sad violin antics.

Pure nonsense. O'Reilly never stopped playing hard when it counted. Never. Eichel is the sulker. Way more talent but way more up and down play. If Jack puts it together in Vegas, this deal will be sooooo bad.

 

[Chainshot]

A few points as I go into a conference call:

I stand corrected on this point. We floated around .500 until the first COVID break, it went off the rails from there

I'm well aware that we were .500 well into the season. However, that was mostly on a PP unit and goaltending that was unsustainable.

We aren't being run out of the rink on good nights. But the good nights are becoming less common as the season wears on as injuries/COVID/etc

- Of their latest loses, 4 out of the 6 have been by one goal. That's with a large chunk of the team milling in and out of the lineup due to COVID and injury.

I'm sorry but I'm well past cheering for "development" and incremental improvements. I've been doing that for a decade.

Then take a break. I did last year. I couldn't stand watching them. I did not like them (and in most cases still don't)

The facts of this season are simple:

We could have easily iced a better, more competitive team without mortgaging the future or hurting any of our young players development.

- What is the other option to where they are right now, roster-wise? Is it to call all of the kids up and put them into a sink-or-swim situation without enjoying professional success and development like they did with... oh... everyone from the end of the Regier era onward?

However, the facts of the season remain is the Sabres front office is selling "culture change" miracle cure tonic like snake oil salesmen while the reality is, this is about one thing and one thing only: running the team as cheaply as possible. The fact that the ownership is raking in tens of millions of dollars on the Bills profits yearly and not be willing to spend to put an even respectable product on the ice for the same fans. Heck, I wouldn't even have been mad had the Sabres gained assets to take on bad contracts for a year and the on ice results were the same. At least it would be putting the cap space to use. However, the team has shown its unwilling to spend to even improve the most dire on ice situations.

The idea that we as fans should be accepting of this insulting cap floor roster Adams has assembled after 10 years of just terrible teams and say "Look, we aren't in last place, CULTURE CHANGE, everything is going to be fine!"

- They are selling it because it is what they are doing and what they have to sell. And clearly most fans are in the same mind as you just by looking at the attendance numbers.

 

[Chainshot]

Pure nonsense. O'Reilly never stopped playing hard when it counted. Never. Eichel is the sulker. Way more talent but way more up and down play. If Jack puts it together in Vegas, this deal will be sooooo bad.

The part that we get to see unfold is Jack with guys who are already high-performing NHLers in leadership roles. Stone is the man there and has his people around him.

And this deal is bad if Jack stays healthy.

 

[OkimLom]

Yup and then take it front and center to the media to put the team in a awkward position . Entitled little puke. I have zero respect for Judas. I don't give a damn about the no winning atmosphere that covered the club like a miasma. Elite players like Jack should be able to trascend stuff like that but him Risto ,o Reilly ,and yes even darling Samson never developed the mental toughness to battle through it and elevate their game. Start off strong then at the first sighting of Adversity they always folded. It was a bold bold move by Adams to jettison 3 of those mental midgets but damn he may of been onto something.

They were only as strong mentally as their coach was. But I'm sure such coaching stalwarts of Bylsma, Housley, and Krueger brought a confidence to EVERYONE on the team. I don't think you can start out any worse for players' careers than what this organization gave those players. This organization gave itself self-inflicted wounds constantly. They were products of a badly ran organization. But continue to think that it was a talent issue.

It wasn't a bold move Adams to get rid of players that either shown interest in being traded away, or had no interest in staying with an organization that will hinder their career because of impatience and incompetence decisions. It was just a move that any sort of GM knows to make. The reason why it makes it such a bold move, is because Buffalo has had terrible GMs for a long time.

 

[TehDoak]

A few points as I go into a conference call:



- Of their latest loses, 4 out of the 6 have been by one goal. That's with a large chunk of the team milling in and out of the lineup due to COVID and injury.

Every team is dealing with covid to some extent.

Then take a break. I did last year. I couldn't stand watching them. I did not like them (and in most cases still don't)

I certainly am not invested to the level I once was. Part of that is simply getting older and having less free time, however.

- What is the other option to where they are right now, roster-wise? Is it to call all of the kids up and put them into a sink-or-swim situation without enjoying professional success and development like they did with... oh... everyone from the end of the Regier era onward?

Right now? Not a lot. The mistakes were made this summer. Filling the roster out with Hinostroza, Butcher, Pysyk, Hayden, et al , not buying out dead weight like Eakin. Not giving up assets to actually address the G situation rather than pulling Anderson and Dell out of the dumpster and hoping for the best. They should have made a best effort to put a competitive team on the ice with a keen eye on building towards the future rather than focusing on running the team as cheaply as possibly. I certainly didn't expect a cap team, but a mid point team without adding long term commitments should have been the goal.

- They are selling it because it is what they are doing and what they have to sell. And clearly most fans are in the same mind as you just by looking at the attendance numbers.

Well, they are selling it because the a good portion of the fan base will buy it. Adams speaks like he got focus groups of people from the WGR whiner line and hits talking points while saying essentially nothing. Attendance issues aside, that is simply a direct consequence of running out a bad team for a decade. Fans will only take so much before focusing their dollar elsewhere. A mere return to mediocrity will get the arena back to 90% capacity most nights.

 

[Chainshot]

Every team is dealing with covid to some extent.

And you said they were getting blown out more often now than earlier in the year. That is not the case.

I certainly am not invested to the level I once was. Part of that is simply getting older and having less free time, however.

I hear that. Wait until you are Dad's Cab service - time gets even tighter.

Right now? Not a lot. The mistakes were made this summer. Filling the roster out with Hinostroza, Butcher, Pysyk, Hayden, et al , not buying out dead weight like Eakin. Not giving up assets to actually address the G situation rather than pulling Anderson and Dell out of the dumpster and hoping for the best. They should have made a best effort to put a competitive team on the ice with a keen eye on building towards the future rather than focusing on running the team as cheaply as possibly. I certainly didn't expect a cap team, but a mid point team without adding long term commitments should have been the goal.

Goaltending remains the one thing they've consistently botched under Adams. A couple of the retreads have been decent enough that they're going to get people looking for them at the deadline - Pysyk and Hinostroza in particular. The long-term commitment was to not pay lip-service to developing their kids but to actually do it and sadly, that involves having a lot of NHL-level filler to take lumps while guys like Quinn and Peterka work through their initial issues instead of throwing them to the proverbial dogs.

We know what rushing players can do in terms of stunting guys who turn out (Risto, Girgensons) or straight up damaging players so they never reach the next level at all (Grigorenko, Nylander) or it delays their arrival (Mittelstadt, Thompson).

Also, to the point of mid-point in terms of cap spending... we've recently seen what it is like to have players using the Sabres as just a cash grab on their way to their next destination (Taylor Hall). Having guys on lower end deals who are on the fringes of being in the show is going to have some guys work out (Hino, Pysyk) and some who do not (Caggiula, Bjork) but it does at least mean that those who want to stay in the show are going to be far hungrier and put in more effort than the ones like Hall or Staal or Bogosian who just mail it in almost every night.

Well, they are selling it because the a good portion of the fan base will buy it. Adams speaks like he got focus groups of people from the WGR whiner line and hits talking points while saying essentially nothing. Attendance issues aside, that is simply a direct consequence of running out a bad team for a decade. Fans will only take so much before focusing their dollar elsewhere. A mere return to mediocrity will get the arena back to 90% capacity most nights.

Wins, if they ever get there, will sell themselves.

 

[member 334057]

Also, to the point of mid-point in terms of cap spending... we've recently seen what it is like to have players using the Sabres as just a cash grab on their way to their next destination (Taylor Hall). Having guys on lower end deals who are on the fringes of being in the show is going to have some guys work out (Hino, Pysyk) and some who do not (Caggiula, Bjork) but it does at least mean that those who want to stay in the show are going to be far hungrier and put in more effort than the ones like Hall or Staal or Bogosian who just mail it in almost every night.

I think it's also a bit of taking a page out of the Bills playbook. They rid themselves of a number of contracts and players that didn't want to be here. They really only have 1 bad contract left on the books with Skinner as that's one that likely can't be dealt. Okposo and Bjork might be considered bad but they only run another year so they are fine. They have a ton of flexibility now heading into this summer or next summer with ample cap space to bolster the roster with a much better crop of free agents available (for now anyway) as well as young players who hopefully earn raises. Hopefully that's the intention and not to just spend the bare minimum moving forward and it's what I like to believe the end goal is.

 

[OkimLom]

The goal difference in the losses:

October: 3, 1 (OT), 1,

November: 2 , 3 , 1 (OT), 2, 1, 5, 1, 3, 4, 1 (OT), 3

December: 3, 4, 2, 1, 1 (SO), 1 (OT), 1, 3,

January: 1 (OT), 2, 5

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

I couldnt disagree with this more. Especially the bolded. That's just plain false.

Yea I full except the dogpiling and trashing . It was a dumb statement. I confused his lost of love of hockey as mailing it it. He did give it all his all bit some some of statements rubbed me the way and confused that with not giving 1000 percent. I will gladly take my lumps and move on. It was an asinine statement on my part. My bad

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Yea I full except the dogpiling and trashing . It was a dumb statement. I confused his lost of love of hockey as mailing it it. He did give it all his all bit some some of statements rubbed me the way and confused that with not giving 1000 percent. I will gladly take my lumps and move on. It was an asinine statement on my part. My bad

 

[sabremike]

Just got my tix for Keith Hernandez Day this July and feel this is appropriate:

I LOATHE Jack Eichel.

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

Well at least If Hf Sabres doesn't take me to a dock and and apply cement shoes and toss me into lake Okeechobee ( i live in Palm Beach so you lot would have to come down here) i would gladly take 21 lashes

 

[joshjull]

Right now? Not a lot. The mistakes were made this summer. Filling the roster out with Hinostroza, Butcher, Pysyk, Hayden, et al , not buying out dead weight like Eakin. Not giving up assets to actually address the G situation rather than pulling Anderson and Dell out of the dumpster and hoping for the best. They should have made a best effort to put a competitive team on the ice with a keen eye on building towards the future rather than focusing on running the team as cheaply as possibly. I certainly didn't expect a cap team, but a mid point team without adding long term commitments should have been the goal.

Thats a lot of generic buzz words that mean very little beyond you wish the team was better. I wish that as well. But the bolded is also another example of you STILL not getting what their focus was for this season.

How many times does it have to be explained that this year’s focus was about the youngsters? Not about being cheap. They did go as cheap as possible on he overall roster because they chose not to spend on the placeholders. ** But the focus of the season was about development and finding out what they had in the youngsters.

You have this very optimistic bordering on naive view that if they just spent an additional 10mil or so (to the midpoint) it would guarantee competitiveness. All without adding more longer term commitments. Not sure who these better players were that would have come here for very reasonable short term deals or could have been acquired without giving up a lot of assets.


** I could understand if you wanted them to spend more on the placeholders. But thats not what your saying since you don’t even accept the contruct of the season. You wanted them to magically build a competitive team with an extra 10mil. You’re not even thinking about development and long term team building. You’re just being shortsighted thinking only of this season.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Well at least If Hf Sabres doesn't take me to a dock and and apply cement shoes and toss me into lake Okeechobee ( i live in Palm Beach so you lot would have to come down here) i would gladly take 21 lashes

I’ve been in Georgia once. I’m not going to it a second time to get to Florida. I have a suspicious amount of melanin for that, so you’re safe.