GDT: Bronze Medal Game - May 22 - Russia (7) vs USA (2)

[BlitzSnipe]

Fun to see a 7-goal outburst today, but Finland's poor showing against Canada just raises the dissatisfaction level with the travesty Saturday in the SF. Really no excuse for continuing to lose to Finland, a team completely devoid of any semblance of offense, in big games. Tretyak apparently announced today that Znarok will be the coach in the World Cup, so no accountability for failure to do better than bronze. The World Cup will of course be a disaster for Russia.

I'm starting to really dislike Znarok. The guy is rude (insulted Yakupov, steers away from key questions), takes no responsibility for the team, and imo isn't capable of playing modern hockey. He just doesn't understand it. That's why our teams keep getting beaten in these key games, he gets outplayed strategically by teams which actually play as a single unit, such as Finland or Canada. I think he has to leave.

 

[IDeyChopNaira*]

I'm starting to really dislike Znarok. The guy is rude (insulted Yakupov, steers away from key questions), takes no responsibility for the team, and imo isn't capable of playing modern hockey. He just doesn't understand it. That's why our teams keep getting beaten in these key games, he gets outplayed strategically by teams which actually play as a single unit, such as Finland or Canada. I think he has to leave.

Any alternative to Znarok?

I'd try Mike Keenan for the World Cup. That would be epic

 

[Raptor1990]

I'm starting to really dislike Znarok. The guy is rude (insulted Yakupov, steers away from key questions), takes no responsibility for the team, and imo isn't capable of playing modern hockey. He just doesn't understand it. That's why our teams keep getting beaten in these key games, he gets outplayed strategically by teams which actually play as a single unit, such as Finland or Canada. I think he has to leave.

But there is still 1 thing he did good, not taking Kovalchoke there.
Very good choice.
Any information how did he insulted Yakupov ? Yak is still better then Shirokov or Plotnikov though. But it seems its because his ethnic.

 

[TonsofPuppies*]

Fun to see a 7-goal outburst today, but Finland's poor showing against Canada just raises the dissatisfaction level with the travesty Saturday in the SF. Really no excuse for continuing to lose to Finland, a team completely devoid of any semblance of offense, in big games. Tretyak apparently announced today that Znarok will be the coach in the World Cup, so no accountability for failure to do better than bronze. The World Cup will of course be a disaster for Russia.

I agree. Coaching has been a problem for Russia for some time. That was evident especially during the 2010 and 2014 Olympics. It's so strange to watch, especially if you compare Russia with the old Soviet teams. Those teams were the epitome of strategy, coaching, structure and teamwork. Russia's modern iteration is basically the polar opposite. As a Canadian, I love the rivalry with Russia and would like to see them become more relevant on the international stage again. No best-on-best championship wins since 1981 is simply unacceptable for country that produces the amount of talent that the Russians do. At the end of the day, it's the age old battle between will and skill. The Russians ooze with skill, but the will is seemingly non-existent.

 

[IDeyChopNaira*]

I agree. Coaching has been a problem for Russia for some time. That was evident especially during the 2010 and 2014 Olympics. It's so strange to watch, especially if you compare Russia with the old Soviet teams. Those teams were the epitome of strategy, coaching, structure and teamwork. Russia's modern iteration is basically the polar opposite. As a Canadian, I love the rivalry with Russia and would like to see them become more relevant on the international stage again. No best-on-best championship wins since 1981 is simply unacceptable for country that produces the amount of talent that the Russians do. At the end of the day, it's the age old battle between will and skill. The Russians ooze with skill, but the will is seemingly non-existent.

You know, some blame Koharski for the 1987 Canada Cup loss. And they were very close in 1998

 

[TonsofPuppies*]

You know, some blame Koharski for the 1987 Canada Cup loss. And they were very close in 1998

The problem is that "very close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Russia is a very proud and prestigious hockey country with gold medal aspirations (much like Canada is). Believe me, the Russian fans don't use the memory of almost winning in 1998 to get over the disaster that was their performance in Sochi/Vancouver. Their top guys need to be better - players and coaches.

 

[IDeyChopNaira*]

The problem is that "very close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Russia is a very proud and prestigious hockey country with gold medal aspirations (much like Canada is). Believe me, the Russian fans don't use the memory of almost winning in 1998 to get over the disaster that was their performance in Sochi/Vancouver. Their top guys need to be better - players and coaches.

Ffirst of all, they need to have a better defense

 

[IceHockeyfan]

You know, some blame Koharski for the 1987 Canada Cup loss. And they were very close in 1998

The Canada Cups don't count as a proper tournament. I'm Canadian and I can see that the they were gamed to favour the Canadians. Smaller ice, home ice and only Canadians were allowed to referee.

that said, Canada's victories against the Soviets in the 1984 and 1987 Cups were decided by one goal, so it was not like the Soviets were bad back then.

 

[IDeyChopNaira*]

The Canada Cups don't count as a proper tournament. I'm Canadian and I can see that the they were gamed to favour the Canadians. Smaller ice, home ice and only Canadians were allowed to referee.

that said, Canada's victories against the Soviets in the 1984 and 1987 Cups were decided by one goal, so it was not like the Soviets were bad back then.

I believe that Canada and the Soviets were equally good in 1984 and 1987. And it was the best international hockey ever.

 

[Scotty B]

Any alternative to Znarok?

I'd try Mike Keenan for the World Cup. That would be epic

Not exactly news that Keenan isn't too popular over here...Would he be capable of coaching Russia to victory in the World Cup? Yes, I believe he could if, IF... The Russian players would actually buy into the tactical changes Keenan would most likely want to employ...changes which would ,arguably, also give RUS a MUCH better chance to achieve success...

Even though Keenan's NHL coaching days are done...he is a ' my way or the highway guy'...ergo not a terrible choice for Russians more used to an autocratic hand/ Iron Fist...

Having said that...it's all just a Pipe Dream...How so?

Well first and foremost because Russians would balk at the notion of a foreign/ Canuck coach...Secondly because deep down Russians don't want to change...They still naively believe that their old time tactics are THE RIGHT WAY to play...

If significant tactical changes are ever gonna come for Team Russia...they'll be at the behest ( most likely ) of a Russian Ex-NHLer with considerable ' street cred ', as it were

 

[Scotty B]

The Canada Cups don't count as a proper tournament. I'm Canadian and I can see that the they were gamed to favour the Canadians. Smaller ice, home ice and only Canadians were allowed to referee.

that said, Canada's victories against the Soviets in the 1984 and 1987 Cups were decided by one goal, so it was not like the Soviets were bad back then.

Tut tut...oh PC one...how come that didn't help us in 1981?

P.S: You think that the deck wasn't stacked , to an even greater degree, against TC by biased officials in 72, and in many other Eurocentric/ IIHF sanctioned events

it's not even up for debate that Bunny Ahearn et al, had it in for Canada ...Hell's Bells, they changed the rules one time, after the fact, to keep a Canadian Amateur Team ( remember it was our amateurs vs their Eastern European pros back then ) from receiving an OG Bronze medal they fairly/ rightfully WON!

 

[Scotty B]

You know, some blame Koharski for the 1987 Canada Cup loss. And they were very close in 1998

if memory serves there was a subtle hook on Bykov ( was it ?) by I'm gonna guess Dale Hawerchuk...behind the play, just prior to the Gretzky to Lemieux 1987 CC clinching goal...ref missed it...it happens

Again , if memory serves, ( too lazy to look for replay ) Bykov probably doesn't make it back up ice to do anything to keep the goal from happening anyway..

 

[Scotty B]

Ffirst of all, they need to have a better defense

Yes but good coaching and good team defense can overcome a multitude of ills...good D isn't all about talent...tactics/team cohesiveness play a big role...Russian D and forwards seldom seem in sync nowadays...leastways not in Big Games vs Top Notch competition

 

[BlitzSnipe]

But there is still 1 thing he did good, not taking Kovalchoke there.
Very good choice.
Any information how did he insulted Yakupov ? Yak is still better then Shirokov or Plotnikov though. But it seems its because his ethnic.

Well, he first claimed that Yakupov not being included in the final roster is due to an injury. However, Yakupov himself, in an interview, said that he was ok and that he had no injury. Second of all, Znarok was asked if Yakupov not being on the team is a liability, and Znarok said that it was an asset. Maybe it's something personal between the two? Sounds like it. At any rate, Znarok just doesn't understand how to strategically beat teams like Finland or Canada, despite the Russian teams having a very good potential to do so.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

I agree. Coaching has been a problem for Russia for some time. That was evident especially during the 2010 and 2014 Olympics. It's so strange to watch, especially if you compare Russia with the old Soviet teams. Those teams were the epitome of strategy, coaching, structure and teamwork. Russia's modern iteration is basically the polar opposite. As a Canadian, I love the rivalry with Russia and would like to see them become more relevant on the international stage again. No best-on-best championship wins since 1981 is simply unacceptable for country that produces the amount of talent that the Russians do. At the end of the day, it's the age old battle between will and skill. The Russians ooze with skill, but the will is seemingly non-existent.

They have the will, trust me. It's the strategy that lets team Russia down.

 

[IDeyChopNaira*]

Well, he first claimed that Yakupov not being included in the final roster is due to an injury. However, Yakupov himself, in an interview, said that he was ok and that he had no injury. Second of all, Znarok was asked if Yakupov not being on the team is a liability, and Znarok said that it was an asset. Maybe it's something personal between the two? Sounds like it. At any rate, Znarok just doesn't understand how to strategically beat teams like Finland or Canada, despite the Russian teams having a very good potential to do so.

Do you really believe that Yakupov would be an asset to team Russia?
I think he's another Filatov. Much hype in the past but nothing impressive today.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Do you really believe that Yakupov would be an asset to team Russia?
I think he's another Filatov. Much hype in the past but nothing impressive today.

Well, he didn't look that bad on the Eurotour at any rate, the guy is very fast and he battles very well along the boards. Probably would've been better than Plotnikov. As for Plotnikov, I actually like his style of play - a kind of 'get under the defence's skin', battling player that a team needs. However, he got very unlucky not to have scored in this tournament, he hit a lot of posts.

 

[IDeyChopNaira*]

Well, he didn't look that bad on the Eurotour at any rate, the guy is very fast and he battles very well along the boards. Probably would've been better than Plotnikov. As for Plotnikov, I actually like his style of play - a kind of 'get under the defence's skin', battling player that a team needs. However, he got very unlucky not to have scored in this tournament, he hit a lot of posts.

Thank you for the explanation. I hope Yakupov will improve after leaving the Oilers

 

[IceHockeyfan]

Tut tut...oh PC one...how come that didn't help us in 1981?

Team Canada was favoured to win that tournament, otherwise Alan Egleson would not have held it. It lost because upsets happen often in hockey. The very same Soviet team that beat TC in that tournament lost to U.S. college students a few months earlier. Why? Because upsets happen in hockey. There is no way these college students were better than the Soviets or TC. Egleson planned not to hold more Canada Cups if TC had won in 1981. That and the fact that he banned non-Canadian referees after 1981 tells me how gamed the Canada Cups were. Let's be honest here. European referees were not more biased than Canadian referees so they should have been allowed to officiate in games in which their countries were not involved. But Egleson would have none of that. Egleson was a Canada patriot and would try anything to have TC win.

P.S: You think that the deck wasn't stacked , to an even greater degree, against TC by biased officials in 72, and in many other Eurocentric/ IIHF sanctioned events

it's not even up for debate that Bunny Ahearn et al, had it in for Canada ...Hell's Bells, they changed the rules one time, after the fact, to keep a Canadian Amateur Team ( remember it was our amateurs vs their Eastern European pros back then ) from receiving an OG Bronze medal they fairly/ rightfully WON!

I'm not familar with all that nor could I take your word for it. This is moot anyway because two wrongs don't make a right. We shouldn't do bad practices just because others do it. They ALL should not do bad practices.

 

[Scotty B]

Team Canada was favoured to win that tournament, otherwise Alan Egleson would not have held it. It lost because upsets happen often in hockey. The very same Soviet team that beat TC in that tournament lost to U.S. college students a few months earlier. Why? Because upsets happen in hockey. There is no way these college students were better than the Soviets or TC. Egleson planned not to hold more Canada Cups if TC had won in 1981. That and the fact that he banned non-Canadian referees after 1981 tells me how gamed the Canada Cups were. Let's be honest here. European referees were not more biased than Canadian referees so they should have been allowed to officiate in games in which their countries were not involved. But Egleson would have none of that. Egleson was a Canada patriot and would try anything to have TC win.



I'm not familar with all that nor could I take your word for it. This is moot anyway because two wrongs don't make a right. We shouldn't do bad practices just because others do it. They ALL should not do bad practices.

History proves that Eagleson --- like so many in positions of power --- was no patriot. What he was, was a megalomaniac and closet criminal who’d sell out his closest friends – never mind his countrymen – in a heartbeat, if doing so worked to his advantage

As for the rest? For the record and FYI

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/archive/index.php/t-450877.html

PS: Eagleson et al. refused to let team CCCP take home the Canada Cup trophy they fairly won in 1981...Many on this side of the pond were deeply disturbed by this...So some business man started a campaign ...He asked for donations of no more than one dollar, to ensure that most donors were everyday hockey fans, and soon had more than enough for a replica trophy ( hells bells it was probably of much higher quality than the original ) which subsequently became part of the team CCCP trophy case...

The above might be construed as tacit evidence that everyday Canucks were fair minded...And again I think history has shown , time and time again, that our Best were quite capable of beating your best ( with a few noteworthy exceptions ), with no help from biased zebras, unscrupulous tourney organizers, etc...

 

[Scotty B]

History proves that Eagleson --- like so many in positions of power --- was no patriot. What he was, was a megalomaniac and closet criminal who’d sell out his closest friends – never mind his countrymen – in a heartbeat, if doing so worked to his advantage

As for the rest? For the record and FYI

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/archive/index.php/t-450877.html

PS: Eagleson et al. refused to let team CCCP take home the Canada Cup trophy they fairly won in 1981...Many on this side of the pond were deeply disturbed by this...So some business man started a campaign ...He asked for donations of no more than one dollar, to ensure that most donors were everyday hockey fans, and soon had more than enough for a replica trophy ( hells bells it was probably of much higher quality than the original ) which subsequently became part of the team CCCP trophy case...

The above might be construed as tacit evidence that everyday Canucks , IN THE MAIN, were fair minded...And again I think history has shown , time and time again, that our Best were quite capable of beating THEIR best ( with a few noteworthy exceptions ), with no help from biased zebras, unscrupulous tourney organizers, etc...

fixed