Brisson confirms that EP40 dealt with injury which prevented him from Off-season Training.

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the evidence points to Petey signing the $96m contract without management doing their due diligence on his health. The contract was signed what, early March 2024, weeks after his drop in play was noticed and we know the knee began bothering him by end of January

Rutherford and Allvin have to downplay any injury to cover their asses to the owner for failing to do their job properly . Pissing off your star 1c and tanking his trade value? Priceless

Tocchet - like many dinosaurs with brains the size of a small walnut* - thinks the tendinitis is a nothing burger, and that Petey should train and play through the pain. Inviting permanent injury to your star 1c and pissing him off? Priceless

And then their are media and ""fan" takes calling into question Petey's character because he is played injured for the team. Making your star 1c want to get out of town? Priceless

But of all those takes above that I ridicule, they pale in comparison to the utter and infinite contempt I have for Canucks medical staff. Beyond priceless, and that is inconceivable

*apologies to small walnuts everywhere. Take solace knowing you are still almost as big as a large brazil nut

I keep hearing how Pettersson's (and Hughes') agent is the most powerful agent in hockey.

A team of like 20 NHL superfans and lawyers.

Has super agent just let his client (checks notes)

Play 80 games
Play 80 games
Play 82 games
Play 49 of 55 games

Plus a couple allstar breaks and a international competition..

All on a busted knee?

Quit. Making. Excuses.
 
I keep hearing how Pettersson's (and Hughes') agent is the most powerful agent in hockey.

A team of like 20 NHL superfans and lawyers.

Has super agent just let his client (checks notes)

Play 80 games
Play 80 games
Play 82 games
Play 49 of 55 games

Plus a couple allstar breaks and a international competition..

All on a busted knee?

Quit. Making. Excuses.
Quit. Making. Unintelligible. Posts.
 
Even the 'lack of preparation' comment by Allvin lines up with Pettersson not being able to train properly (Brisson).

You are not seriously trying to suggest that Allvin and Brisson's comments can be reconciled? Or that Allvin, when publicly criticizing Pettersson, was actually not criticizing him and just referencing that he couldn't train because of an injury? You realize how ridiculous of a take this is, right?

You just can't rationally reconcile all of the available evidence. That's why this debate has continued on for this long. If the evidence was all consistent then probably only that Bobby dude would still be arguing over this.

At this point, no one on HF actually knows what is really going on, and anyway acting like they have any certainty on this subject is an arrogant dumby.

You know my view on the matter. And I have poured through the evidence and debated it ad nauseum. But I don't have any certainty on it. It wouldn't surprise me if he still had a knee injury. In fact, the longer this goes on almost makes that conclusion more likely. I say this because his earlier slump last year, and up until a certain point, could be explained, to a degree, as result of him effectively taking his foot off the gas and not competing, training and preparing at the requisite level. But I don't think this would explain an indefinite period of this type of poor play, because I think Pettersson can and would re-engage himself after this experience. So the long it goes the more difficult it is to explain absent some continuing injury.
 
Quit. Making. Unintelligible. Posts.
He's' got a point, though. We've seen elite players in the past get second expert opinions from doctors when they don't like the medical advice they are getting from a team, so why not Pettersson? Pettersson is not a moron, has a super agent, and has a ton of money, and clearly he is involved in any decision as to whether to play or not through any injury. He could easily get a second opinion if he had any reservations as to whether he should or shouldn't play. The fact he is playing implies that he is on board with whatever medical advice decision the Canucks have made. And if he is some stupid muppet that's just doing as he is told to do then he deserves some of the blame as well.
 
Im going to input this Pettersson thread into ChatGPT one day and ask it to filter all the discussion into a sick note for my employer.

It'll be brilliant. Cover every base (goalpost).
 
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Petey icing his knee at 4N.

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Petey icing his knee at 4N.

View attachment 979387
We know it's there. He's playing through it. The advice from the medical staff must've been, playing through it won't make it worse. It heals when it heals.

The question you ask is why didn't they know his tendonitis affects this game this much? They have access to the best medical expertise, did they do enough to help him speed up the recovery? Or do we really have to wait for a hard reset with him in the offseason, training, nutrition, rest and all, and hope knee issue finally goes away in 2025-26?

Hindsight is 20/20, but with his contract and our market, shutting him down early to protect their 11.6 million investment is probably wiser than letting him play his way out of it.
 
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Love how some folks are arguing Petey will never be the same from knee f***ing tendonitis and at the same time argue oh look at Mik, he recovered from a torn ACL injury which until recently was seen as a career ending injury and got his speed back.

Our school system is failing.

Hindsight is 20/20, but with his contract and our market, shutting him down early to protect their 11.6 million investment is probably wiser than letting him play his way out of it.
At this point it’s like, they’ve been trying to get him to play through it for a calendar year, it’s not just it’s not working, there is no f***ing sign that it is inproving at all and if anything it’s getting worse.
They need to stop doing what we the f*** they are recommending and just shut him down.
 
^ also half jokingly but everyone loves posting stats like "Oh so Petey will be the first player in history to achieve this that and this before yada yada age only to fall off like no other player ever."

Uh yeah. We are all Canucks.

New here or..?
Correlation is not causation.

You're seeing patterns where they don't exist.

"These two guys are Swedish. Coincidence?I think not".

"Also, let's panic and dump a superstar who is struggling for pennies on the dollar because I believe in curses and think that the worst thing will happen with our franchise. But yet if we make a trade the best thing will happen because even my superstition is internally inconsistent".
 
Dude be real. Subjectively, the only thing more obvious than local prospect guru turned upcoming insider Cam Robinson reporting "The Canucks have decided to pull Petey off the market" would be if it was announced by Josh Yohe outta Pittsburgh or something at 7am on a Wednesday.

I hope you can see a forest thru the trees of Rutherford wanting to immedietly draw the attention off Pettersson once Miller was traded.

Did you honestly think he was going to say "Ok now Miller is behind us, we're full steam ahead all hands on deck to deal with Pettersson now"?

Nah man you feed Cam Robinson a bone and start your full steam ahead approach, but behind closed doors this time.

The possibility is incredibly real. And its a blessing.
LOL.

"Come on dude. Ignore all real evidence for my cherry picked perspective. It's right there in front of you".

My last prediction. IF he stays on the Canucks he will be bought out before 2028. I am moving on from proving many of you wrong. This debate is now finished.
God I wish I could believe this.

Also, will you PLEASE bet me a thousand dollars on the 2028 buyout? Like Please.
 
Petey icing his knee at 4N.

View attachment 979387
Where are all the people who spent a year repeating ad nauseum he wasn't hurt and if he was hurt then it wasn't serious, and if it was serious then it wasn't chronic, and if it was chronic it had healed at the start of the season, and if it hadn't healed at the start of the season he still didn't train hard enough through it over the offseason?????!??!?!?!
 
Where are all the people who spent a year repeating ad nauseum he wasn't hurt and if he was hurt then it wasn't serious, and if it was serious then it wasn't chronic, and if it was chronic it had healed at the start of the season, and if it hadn't healed at the start of the season he still didn't train hard enough through it over the offseason?????!??!?!?!
Don’t worry, @Hodgy will tell us how it’s totally normal for all hockey players to ice specific one knee after the game.
 
Don’t worry, @Hodgy will tell us how it’s totally normal for all hockey players to ice specific one knee after the game.
I have not been reading most of his recent posts but from the bits I've seen, I like how his argument has slowly escalated in incremental steps from "he's not injured" to "well doctors know best and no one who isn't one can question them, but also why didn't he know better than the doctors and know to seek a second medical opinion for it earlier". This entire sequence is an absurd exercise is digging in so deep you've turned upside down.
 
Where are all the people who spent a year repeating ad nauseum he wasn't hurt and if he was hurt then it wasn't serious, and if it was serious then it wasn't chronic, and if it was chronic it had healed at the start of the season, and if it hadn't healed at the start of the season he still didn't train hard enough through it over the offseason?????!??!?!?!

We are all in a state of shock obviously.

Shock that the picture your commenting on is Elias Pettersson in yellow. Playing more hockey on that knee because he cant get enough.

Shock that half a fanbase is jumping up and down screaming about Petey' knee while the dude just goes out and plays every single game.

Dude must be a warrior the way some of you talk and defend him. Id hate to see what Philly - Sean Couturier truthers are like.
 
We are all in a state of shock obviously.

Shock that the picture your commenting on is Elias Pettersson in yellow. Playing more hockey on that knee because he cant get enough.

Shock that half a fanbase is jumping up and down screaming about Petey' knee while the dude just goes out and plays every single game.

Dude must be a warrior the way some of you talk and defend him. Id hate to see what Philly - Sean Couturier truthers are like.
Hockey players will chop off parts of their fingers rather than miss meaningless regular season games in a European league let alone the NHL or playoffs. That's how they are.

I think you missed the stretch of time on this forum between Jan 2024 and Sept 2024 where half of this board was convinced he was not actually injured in any way that significantly effected him in any way and it was all in his head, and that was the constant narrative on EP for a good ~6 months.

the evidence points to Petey signing the $96m contract without management doing their due diligence on his health. The contract was signed what, early March 2024, weeks after his drop in play was noticed and we know the knee began bothering him by end of January

Rutherford and Allvin have to downplay any injury to cover their asses to the owner for failing to do their job properly . Pissing off your star 1c and tanking his trade value? Priceless

Tocchet - like many dinosaurs with brains the size of a small walnut* - thinks the tendinitis is a nothing burger, and that Petey should train and play through the pain. Inviting permanent injury to your star 1c and pissing him off? Priceless

And then their are media and ""fan" takes calling into question Petey's character because he is played injured for the team. Making your star 1c want to get out of town? Priceless

But of all those takes above that I ridicule, they pale in comparison to the utter and infinite contempt I have for Canucks medical staff. Beyond priceless, and that is inconceivable

*apologies to small walnuts everywhere. Take solace knowing you are still almost as big as a large brazil nut
The bolded is so on brand given what we've seen from mgmt this season. @bossram has talked about this tendency too. I think you've both nailed it in this regard.
 
Hockey players will chop off parts of their fingers rather than miss meaningless regular season games in a European league let alone the NHL or playoffs. That's how they are.

I think you missed the stretch of time on this forum between Jan 2024 and Sept 2024 where half of this board was convinced he was not actually injured in any way that significantly effected him in any way and it was all in his head, and that was the constant narrative on EP for a good ~6 months.

Screenshots_2025-02-17-13-30-13.png

His ice knee ^^ was cooked 5 years ago and any good Petey truther and/or hater should know this.
 
View attachment 979413

His ice knee ^^ was cooked 5 years ago and any good Petey truther and/or hater should know this.
He was a different player after Kotka, but the edge data shows elite speed before last years injury. He visually looks way slower now compared to the rest of his career even when he's hustling.

I always wondered what Green said to him after the Kotka injury. I would bet on some patented Green anti-development™ BS that effected how he played. Also always wondered how different EP's career would have turned out if Botchford (rip) had been around for it all, right from the start he was good at handling EP.
 
He was a different player after Kotka, but the edge data shows elite speed before last years injury. He visually looks way slower now compared to the rest of his career even when he's hustling.

I always wondered what Green said to him after the Kotka injury. I would bet on some patented Green anti-development™ BS that effected how he played. Also always wondered how different EP's career would have turned out if Botchford (rip) had been around for it all, right from the start he was good at handling EP.

Yeah that same year he also got absolutely dummied into the end boards by Matt Gryzlyck and proceeded to miss some more games after coming back from KK's hip drop tackle.

Then more abuse. Then more.

We havent heard a peep about the wrist Ive patiently been waiting for the wrist tendonitis doctors to come back.

Those people trying to sell a "supertar" for pennies on the dollar have been watching this player since day one.
 
He’s a slower skater right now than he was when he entered the league by a few KMs… I don’t know if it’s training or injuries but that is a huge red flag. He should be faster in his prime not slower. Remember when petey was considered not a strong goal threat and then in the offseason he developed one of the best shots in world? What happened ?
His off season got hampered dealing with tendinitis in his knee he couldn’t do his off season core leg strength gains worrying about re injuring his leg. Petterson and management have different views on injuries and they didn’t respect tendinitis as an injury.
 
I know there are some good posters who are concerned about being trapped by EP40's contract and wonder if the prudent move is to deal him. I disagree, but I think there's a valid perspective there.

But one has to admit that it's a funny coincidence that literally every poster you would hate to be trapped in an elevator with is banging the same 'he sucks' 'trade him now for pennies on the dollar' drum.

The loudest most obnoxious of whom got loaded and outed himself as a science denier in a past thread.


Just food for thought.

fbkHVBBmUNK915vUlI4nYYXFz5A=.gif
 
No. Not bad.

We are also leaders in xG against.

The mission statement is low event hockey. It happens everywhere Tocchet has coached.

Id say with 18 months and counting here, its on you to prove its not how he wants us playing.

I don't deny he's coaching low-event hockey.

But you have to implement the strategies that are best suited for your roster.

Do you think we have a high octane roster? Our #1 center is playing like a #2 and can barely skate, and we have one legit 1st line winger who is an even worse skater. And then we only have 2 D-men with any sort of offensive talent and IQ and majority of the games this season we've played with 1 of them out of the lineup. Not to mention 2-3 D-men in the lineup every night playing at a replacement level (Soucy, Juulsen, Brannstrom).

So do you think a roster like this is better suited to run and gun or play a safer style?

Again - the team was fine at generating offense til around Spring last year. And what happened after that? Pettersson disappeared and we started getting hit hard by injuries. And unfortunately neither of those things have changed since then.

And no style regardless of how risk-averse or defensive should turn a 100 point player into a 55 point player. Maybe a 100 point player into an 85 point player. But that's not necessarily a bad thing; there's a reason why teams led by guys like Datsyuk, Kopitar and Barkov have had success.
 
I don't deny he's coaching low-event hockey.
There we go!
But you have to implement the strategies that are best suited for your roster.

Do you think we have a high octane roster? Our #1 center is playing like a #2 and can barely skate, and we have one legit 1st line winger who is an even worse skater. And then we only have 2 D-men with any sort of offensive talent and IQ and majority of the games this season we've played with 1 of them out of the lineup. Not to mention 2-3 D-men in the lineup every night playing at a replacement level (Soucy, Juulsen, Brannstrom).

So do you think a roster like this is better suited to run and gun or play a safer style?
Did I say that its better suited for run and gun hockey?

Every team that is low on talent wants low event hockey.
Again - the team was fine at generating offense til around Spring last year. And what happened after that? Pettersson disappeared and we started getting hit hard by injuries. And unfortunately neither of those things have changed since then.
There we disagree. They were never generating offense. They just shot at an unsustainable rate. (Maybe you remember the PDO talk that some here laughed at?)
And no style regardless of how risk-averse or defensive should turn a 100 point player into a 55 point player. Maybe a 100 point player into an 85 point player. But that's not necessarily a bad thing; there's a reason why teams led by guys like Datsyuk, Kopitar and Barkov have had success.
That was never my point.

Its just that EPs decline in counting stats is so dramatic in part because there are no "residual points" to be had when the team doesnt generate chances when he is playing poorly.

People are so focused on #excuse that every nuance in the discussion on EP40 seen as something that must not be granted.
 
We know it's there. He's playing through it. The advice from the medical staff must've been, playing through it won't make it worse. It heals when it heals.

The question you ask is why didn't they know his tendonitis affects this game this much? They have access to the best medical expertise, did they do enough to help him speed up the recovery? Or do we really have to wait for a hard reset with him in the offseason, training, nutrition, rest and all, and hope knee issue finally goes away in 2025-26?

Hindsight is 20/20, but with his contract and our market, shutting him down early to protect their 11.6 million investment is probably wiser than letting him play his way out of it.
I would say the Canucks do not have access to the best medical expertise.

That is my professional opinion and is based on their mismanagement of numerous injuries in the past decade.
 
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Don’t worry, @Hodgy will tell us how it’s totally normal for all hockey players to ice specific one knee after the game.

I literally posted yesterday that I wouldn’t be surprised if he was injured and that the longer this slump went on the more likely this was true.

I don’t doubt that he’s icing his knee because of patellar tendinitis which is a swollen tendon. The icing helps to keep the swelling down. No idea what the current severity of the injury is, but it’s pretty alarming that he’s still got it a year later assuming this icing isn’t more preventative.

I have not been reading most of his recent posts but from the bits I've seen, I like how his argument has slowly escalated in incremental steps from "he's not injured" to "well doctors know best and no one who isn't one can question them, but also why didn't he know better than the doctors and know to seek a second medical opinion for it earlier". This entire sequence is an absurd exercise is digging in so deep you've turned upside down.
I mean, you are misframing my position entirely and strawmaning my argument as you like to do. I’m not the one whose steered discussion towards an analysis of the Canucks medical staff I’m just responding to the dubious and rather unsupported conclusion that they are terrible. But if you think that posters on HF have the requisite expertise, knowledge and experience to conclude that with some certainty then that’s fine, you probably just have a much lower threshold for evidence than I do. And again, I’m not even saying that conclusion is necessarily incorrect, only that posters are far too certain. But of course this type of nuance seems totally ignored and susceptible to strawmans.

And you laugh at the thought of seeking a second opinion, but this isn’t some unprecedented thing. This happens all the time in medicine, especially with wealthy patients. And frankly, it would be somewhat surprising if he and/or the team had sought a second or third opinion. I’ve got patellar tendinitis and other leg and lower back issues and I’ve seen four different specialists over the last two years. The idea that a player, with one of the largest contracts in league history, has an injury that has been significantly affecting his his play for over an entire year, and whose injury is not getting much better, wouldn’t, through the team or independently, seek a second opinion is kind of crazy. Like, how many years do you think he’d need to continue to play and be terrible before he thinks maybe a second opinion would be a good idea? Of course, like I said, he’s probably already got multiple medical opinions on the matter.

And if I am digging in so deep then why would I say I wouldn’t be surprised if he was injured, and that the longer this goes on the more likely that’s true? Again, it’s just a strawman. I have no problem revising my position based on new information and literally did that yesterday in this very thread on this very page that you responded to, but you’d rather dunk on a strawman than post in good faith.
 

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