Brisson confirms that EP40 dealt with injury which prevented him from Off-season Training.

[SillyRabbit]

Second… because it’s something you “can” play through and most highly competitive people will play if they can. Hell, I sprained my ankle last week, but I have it taped up and am about to go play volleyball on it, and it’s just drop in.

If a player is playing so poorly that they're getting criticized by their management, coach, teammates, media and fans, why would they say "yeah I should keep playing through this injury, I'm totally helping the team."

Wouldn't they eventually realize that they need to leave the lineup and recover, so that when they return to the lineup, they can contribute positively to the team?

The current claim is like most here have said, because of the injury his offseason training was effected and it won’t be until next year for him to get back his speed that seems to be missing.

Why would it take an entire year to make up for a summer's worth of training?

Why wouldn't he just complete the training a couple months late and join the team in November instead of September?

 

[mriswith]

If a player is playing so poorly that they're getting criticized by their management, coach, teammates, media and fans, why would they say "yeah I should keep playing through this injury, I'm totally helping the team."

Wouldn't they eventually realize that they need to leave the lineup and recover from injury, so that when they return to the lineup, they can contribute positively to the team?


Why would it take an entire year to make up for a summer's worth of training?

Why wouldn't he just complete the training a couple months late and join the team in November instead of September?

Why would Henrik Sedin chop off part of his finger rather than miss a handful of regular season games? In the SHL. During the lockout.

Why would Kesler abuse painkillers for years and give himself Crohn's rather than miss a few games here and there and properly recover?

Why would Mikheyev risk his career and ruin two seasons instead of one just so he could play half of a completely lost, meaningless season on one leg?

Pro athlete's have a mindset that is absolutely beyond the understanding of an average person who has no idea what elite athletes, or training or playing at an elite level, are like.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

This dynamic needs to change asap.

They need to shut players down. If you leave it up to the players they will ALLWAYS try to play throught he injury.

Can we NOW have the EP40 haters thread for the handful of posters to vent so the discussion can actually move on?

I’d also like to see the dynamic change of players that players that were injured at the end of the season/offseason go right to training camp without having proper time to strength train. It’s just not enough time. They may be medically cleared but it takes time to build strength back. I’m not a doctor or physiotherapist, but I am a personal trainer and have built programs and trained people after they have gone through physiotherapy. It takes a couple months to slowly add sets/lower rep range if you safely want to increase the difficulty of the workout without chance of re-injury or overtraining. It can take months more for them to return to pre-injury strength. There may not be enough time in an offseason for a player to get to their pre-injury strength, let alone where they would want to be to play in the NHL.

I would much rather have a player miss the first 5 games of the season, and take some time to shake off the rust, than having a player be “ready” for training camp and not have strength/power to be effective for the whole season

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Pro athlete's have a mindset that is absolutely beyond the understanding of an average person who has no idea what elite athletes, or training or playing at an elite level, are like.

I don't really think this is some foreign, unfathomable way of thinking.

The attitudes people have re: work culture is very similar. Things like toughening up and going into work while sick/injured, etc.

It is really something that should be changed, pro athletes or not.

 

[Bobby9]

Great convo. Appreciate both positions but he still on pace for 50 points.

Move him asap. His contract will cripple the team for just under a decade

This player will not lead a team to any post season success. He isn’t built for it.

Reality time: He is an under sized, slow often injured player w confidence issues.

 

[Bleach Clean]

But I don’t accept that completely, and I dont believe there is enough evidence to claim that the knee is the only issue, and dismiss other potential reasons for this prolonged slump… I definitely think there is enough evidence to make an argument for it, but i also think there is enough evidence to believe there could be more to it than just his knee, and im not going to just assume its just a knee thing and it will get better and he’ll be fine.

I don't mean to exclude the loss of confidence as a factor. Nor is the locker room tension excluded. Friction with management/coach also. Clearly, they had to trade Miller for more than just Pettersson's impaired speed. I just consider the loss of speed, or the knee injury, the primary factor in his decline in play.

And if you agree that it is the primary factor, then a positive outcome should eventually result.

 

[mriswith]

I don't really think this is some foreign, unfathomable way of thinking.

The attitudes people have re: work culture is very similar. Things like toughening up and going into work while sick/injured, etc.

It is really something that should be changed, pro athletes or not.

I think people understand the concept, but at the same time don't get it. Chopping off part of a finger to avoid missing a handful of meaningless games is understandable as an abstract concept but harder to understand what that extreme of a mentality would actually feel like.

I thought about this every time I saw one of the many people arguing that mgmt's actions about injuries didn't make sense so EP can't be injured (ignoring mgmt's history and track record on these issues) when the facts of how mgmt views injuries - typical old school nhl view - is clear. It's a very extreme lens.

I also think it's stupid and should be changed. Just like at work, you get more out of someone if you actually let them recover than if they "work through it" and then do crap work while working through it, are impacted for longer, take down their coworkers with them and annoy everyone in the process.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I also think it's stupid and should be changed. Just like at work, you get more out of someone if you actually let them recover than if they "work through it" and then do crap work while working through it, are impacted for longer, take down their coworkers with them and annoy everyone in the process.

Giving EP and Miller sabbaticals was actually very smart. But as fans we don't "have all the information" and some fans like to play the guessing game for that sweet dopamine hit.

Hey, I'm guilty of it too. But when it comes to gossip about the bedroom, how does that make us as fans of the sport any better than people who watch the Kardashians and shit? It really doesn't. The less I know about the players as people, the more I enjoy the sport.

I think a lot of fans (ours moreso) would resent 90% of the league if players gave every single political opinion they've ever had. Because...what can some f***ing 25-year old who dedicated his life to the game teach me about political science that I haven't already read in the thousand books they f***ing assigned me to read in college?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I don't really think this is some foreign, unfathomable way of thinking.

The attitudes people have re: work culture is very similar. Things like toughening up and going into work while sick/injured, etc.

It is really something that should be changed, pro athletes or not.

I have to disagree on this.

Its not similar in average people.

The cohort of the population that you get when you take NHLers is a bunch of outliers in pain tolerance and dedication and competitiveness. And there is a tribal aspect to team sports that enhances this.

This is something completely foreign to 99% of your average joe working 9 to 5.

If a player is playing so poorly that they're getting criticized by their management, coach, teammates, media and fans, why would they say "yeah I should keep playing through this injury, I'm totally helping the team."

Wouldn't they eventually realize that they need to leave the lineup and recover, so that when they return to the lineup, they can contribute positively to the team?

A team mate. Who got traded for being a bad team mate for the 3rd time in his career...

Also... the rest of your post... That would depend on the actual diagnosis and the advice he is getting from the medical professionals.

Why is this so hard a concept to grasp?

 

[I am toxic]

No pain; no gain

The more Petey suffers, the better

Ruthervin and Toccs understand this, why can't intelligent people - who aren't immersed in neanderthal hockey culture, who look at evidence and past experience to arrive at rational, logical decisions based on medical science - understand this?

It is an enigma, without explanation

 

[arttk]

Are you guys not tired of debating this shit?

 

[racerjoe]

Are you guys not tired of debating this shit?

Oh I am tired of it…

 

[Canucker]

I don't mean to exclude the loss of confidence as a factor. Nor is the locker room tension excluded. Friction with management/coach also. Clearly, they had to trade Miller for more than just Pettersson's impaired speed. I just consider the loss of speed, or the knee injury, the primary factor in his decline in play.

And if you agree that it is the primary factor, then a positive outcome should eventually result.

Yeah, I'm just not there on the knee injury...I'm not saying it is, or it isn't, the "primary" reason for his issues... I'm taking EP (and the team) at his word and this knee injury wasn't a big deal, so I'm of the mind the problems are probably a confluence of issues, some of which might be "environmental", some mental and some physical...and I don't necessarily believe that this can be completely resolved with some rest and conditioning. I'm also not suggesting I can't be completely wrong and this is just a case of a guy who needs time to rehab and recover, but I'm not willing to bet the farm on it with as little actual evidence as there is right now.

 

[Zippgunn]

So a chronic injury then, just like Demko. There is no hope...

 

[tyhee]

If a player is playing so poorly that they're getting criticized by their management, coach, teammates, media and fans, why would they say "yeah I should keep playing through this injury, I'm totally helping the team."

Wouldn't they eventually realize that they need to leave the lineup and recover, so that when they return to the lineup, they can contribute positively to the team?


Why would it take an entire year to make up for a summer's worth of training?

Why wouldn't he just complete the training a couple months late and join the team in November instead of September?

Pettersson has been getting criticized for not performing to his past level, not for failing to help the team. Surely there is nobody that thinks the Canucks are a better team with a marginal depth player in the lineup in his place, so your "why would they say "... I'm totally helping the team"" is because he is in fact helping the team.

Tendonitis can be a strange thing to recover from. I got it in a foot and the advice was to rest it a couple of weeks, then to resume activity at a much lower level than before and that it might take a long while to clear up. It was well over a year before I stopped feeling at least some mild pain on occasion.

Obviously, I don't know the actual situation with Pettersson, but can see the possibiity that he tried resting it until it felt better during the summer and that it didn't actually get to where he hoped it would. With the team medical staff not onboard it would be next to impossible for him to take additional time out from the season to train and recover, especially with him still being good enough to outplay a marginal level replacement.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Why would Henrik Sedin chop off part of his finger rather than miss a handful of regular season games? In the SHL. During the lockout.

Why would Kesler abuse painkillers for years and give himself Crohn's rather than miss a few games here and there and properly recover?

Why would Mikheyev risk his career and ruin two seasons instead of one just so he could play half of a completely lost, meaningless season on one leg?

Pro athlete's have a mindset that is absolutely beyond the understanding of an average person who has no idea what elite athletes, or training or playing at an elite level, are like.

The Kesler one really makes me sad.

 

[Hodgy]

One interesting question to me i, how long should Pettersson be reasonably given to regain his form of play, and play as an 11.6 million dollar player is expected to play, acknowledging that his off season training was poor (whether wholly or partly due to injury)?

Because, to me, its getting kind of insane to suggest that this whole year (and playoffs too?) is basically a write off because his off season training is poor. Like, of course it would affect his play, for some time, but a whole season?

We've seen elite players suffer far worse injuries, with surgery and long rehabilitation times, and I don't recall most of them needing a whole calendar year to recover?

To put it another way, at what point is his off season irrelevant? Like, we are five months from his off season.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yeah, I'm just not there on the knee injury...I'm not saying it is, or it isn't, the "primary" reason for his issues... I'm taking EP (and the team) at his word and this knee injury wasn't a big deal, so I'm of the mind the problems are probably a confluence of issues, some of which might be "environmental", some mental and some physical...and I don't necessarily believe that this can be completely resolved with some rest and conditioning. I'm also not suggesting I can't be completely wrong and this is just a case of a guy who needs time to rehab and recover, but I'm not willing to bet the farm on it with as little actual evidence as there is right now.

Your position on this doesn't make sense to me, Canucker.

If you say that it can be a confluence of things environmental, mental and physical, then this contradicts the team/EP saying the knee injury "wasn't a big deal" (physical) and the need to trade JT Miller (environment). I'm not also sure what you're implying with 'mental' if it's not a lack of confidence?

If the knee is fine, why is his speed data 3.7 for 20mph burst post ASG?

A confluence of issues with no real distinction means there cannot be a distinct solution to any part of it. And if there's no solution, then I can understand why you would be apt to give up on the player.

 

[I am toxic]

One interesting question to me i, how long should Pettersson be reasonably given to regain his form of play, and play as an 11.6 million dollar player is expected to play, acknowledging that his off season training was poor (whether wholly or partly due to injury)?

Because, to me, its getting kind of insane to suggest that this whole year (and playoffs too?) is basically a write off because his off season training is poor. Like, of course it would affect his play, for some time, but a whole season?

We've seen elite players suffer far worse injuries, with surgery and long rehabilitation times, and I don't recall most of them needing a whole calendar year to recover?

To put it another way, at what point is his off season irrelevant? Like, we are five months from his off season.

You make the assumption that the off season training was handled poorly

It is just an assumption, and a bad one at that

from the evidence, it is far more likely that acute tendinitis appeared in January of last year, and within a few months developed into chronic tendinitis, at which point the entire situation takes on a completely different timeline for recovery

And if someone could give any evidence of acute tendinitis that lasted a minimum of 4 months while engaged in one of the most physically demanding sports, please share

Otherwise, it just looks beyond toxic* to falsely criticize someone who played through injury for the team. Those posters wear it

*yes, I feel inadequate

 

[Hodgy]

You make the assumption that the off season training was handled poorly

It is just an assumption, and a bad one at that

You misinterpreted my post. I said the offseason training was poor, in terms of quality, and expressly recognized that it could have been poor because of injury. Never did I assume that off season training was handled poorly. Of course, Allvin seems to disagree.

from the evidence, it is far more likely that acute tendinitis appeared in January of last year, and within a few months developed into chronic tendinitis, at which point the entire situation takes on a completely different timeline for recovery

Ironically, this is an assumption.

And if someone could give any evidence of acute tendinitis that lasted a minimum of 4 months while engaged in one of the most physically demanding sports, please share

For what its worth, I've had patellar tendinitis for the last two years or so.

Otherwise, it just looks beyond toxic* to falsely criticize someone who played through injury for the team. Those posters wear it

*yes, I feel inadequate

Aside from a couple outliers, I don't think anyone is being unreasonably critical of Pettersson. And as I have said many times, the fan base at large has been incredibly patient with him even chanting his name during the playoffs as means of encouragement.