Brisson confirms that EP40 dealt with injury which prevented him from Off-season Training.

[Canucker]

Okay. Let's play a little game. We trade Pettersson to Buffalo for Cozens, Kulich and a pick. Which isn't even a horrendous trade.

This now leaves us with 25M in the off season and no legitimate first line center. Now who do you purpose we sign with all that money? Rantanen and Marner aren't coming here. They'd want to be on contenders. Regardless, they would eat half that cap amount themselves chasing 13-14M deal contracts.

Our center options are as followed, since we'd absolutely need to sign one: Duchene, Granlund, Tavaras, Giroux, Marchand.

Noticing a trend here? They're all well into their 30s or mostly play wing nowadays. And we still haven't replaced Boeser. It's not like Ehlers will come any cheaper. Assuming he even leaves Winnipeg.

So do explain how this scenario convinces Hughes to stay when we'd have a forward corps not much better than the Habs.

Cap space is great... when there's actually players to spend it on that want to be here. Most of the good ones aren't going to be all that interesting playing for a team that just traded their two top six centers for pennies on the dollar.

For shits and grins, I'll play...

1) We keep EP and may still not have a "legitimate first line center"...at least based on his current level of play and over the past calendar year.
2) I believe Marner and Rantanen will go where the money is AND an opportunity to win...having QH and a great city always helps, along with a large amount of money to offer. There are some other UFAs of note that could be signed and also improve the team.
3) You've glossed over the fact that if we traded EP in your hypothetical scenario we would be getting 2 NHL centers back...it can be argued that they aren't #1 centers, and that's currently a fact, but they are good young players and could very well become legitimate top 1-2 centers, and a pick of some sort. And we have Chytil who has filled in pretty well as a 2nd line center so far. So I don't believe there would be any real issue at center...unless of course (heaven forbid) Chytil sustains another concussion, or Cozens/Kulich don't take a step forward.
4) Hughes is probably smart enough to know that IF management traded EP, there was probably a good reason for it...ultimately nobody has any idea what QH's motivation will be when the time comes for him to make a decision...I'm sure winning will play a factor, but it may not, he may have his heart set on playing with his brothers and know he can win with them...or he may not care and have developed relationships in Van and be happy with his life there. Who knows? The plan should be winning, regardless of QH.

I will qualify all this with, my preference is that EP were to rediscover his game and he didn't need to be traded at all, because he is an exceptional player when he's on his game...but like everyone (including those who think they know) else around here, I don't know what ails EP, if its permanent or temporary, if its injury related or a mental/happiness/confidence issue...what I do know is that there is a distinct possibility that WE may never see him regain his form in Vancouver and with his impending NMC there is risk associated with keeping him, just as there is with moving on from him. All I want is due diligence taken by Management and coaches when they ultimately make their decision to keep him or move him, because they would likely know better than any of us.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

For shits and grins, I'll play...

1) We keep EP and may still not have a "legitimate first line center"...at least based on his current level of play and over the past calendar year.
2) I believe Marner and Rantanen will go where the money is AND an opportunity to win...having QH and a great city always helps, along with a large amount of money to offer. There are some other UFAs of note that could be signed and also improve the team.
3) You've glossed over the fact that if we traded EP in your hypothetical scenario we would be getting 2 NHL centers back...it can be argued that they aren't #1 centers, and that's currently a fact, but they are good young players and could very well become legitimate top 1-2 centers, and a pick of some sort. And we have Chytil who has filled in pretty well as a 2nd line center so far. So I don't believe there would be any real issue at center...unless of course (heaven forbid) Chytil sustains another concussion, or Cozens/Kulich don't take a step forward.
4) Hughes is probably smart enough to know that IF management traded EP, there was probably a good reason for it...ultimately nobody has any idea what QH's motivation will be when the time comes for him to make a decision...I'm sure winning will play a factor, but it may not, he may have his heart set on playing with his brothers and know he can win with them...or he may not care and have developed relationships in Van and be happy with his life there. Who knows? The plan should be winning, regardless of QH.

I will qualify all this with, my preference is that EP were to rediscover his game and he didn't need to be traded at all, because he is an exceptional player when he's on his game...but like everyone (including those who think they know) else around here, I don't know what ails EP, if its permanent or temporary, if its injury related or a mental/happiness/confidence issue...what I do know is that there is a distinct possibility that WE may never see him regain his form in Vancouver and with his impending NMC there is risk associated with keeping him, just as there is with moving on from him. All I want is due diligence taken by Management and coaches when they ultimately make their decision to keep him or move him, because they would likely know better than any of us.

Is the reason that ~8 posters on HFboards hate Pettersson?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

For shits and grins, I'll play...

1) We keep EP and may still not have a "legitimate first line center"...at least based on his current level of play and over the past calendar year.
2) I believe Marner and Rantanen will go where the money is AND an opportunity to win...having QH and a great city always helps, along with a large amount of money to offer. There are some other UFAs of note that could be signed and also improve the team.
3) You've glossed over the fact that if we traded EP in your hypothetical scenario we would be getting 2 NHL centers back...it can be argued that they aren't #1 centers, and that's currently a fact, but they are good young players and could very well become legitimate top 1-2 centers, and a pick of some sort. And we have Chytil who has filled in pretty well as a 2nd line center so far. So I don't believe there would be any real issue at center...unless of course (heaven forbid) Chytil sustains another concussion, or Cozens/Kulich don't take a step forward.
4) Hughes is probably smart enough to know that IF management traded EP, there was probably a good reason for it...ultimately nobody has any idea what QH's motivation will be when the time comes for him to make a decision...I'm sure winning will play a factor, but it may not, he may have his heart set on playing with his brothers and know he can win with them...or he may not care and have developed relationships in Van and be happy with his life there. Who knows? The plan should be winning, regardless of QH.

I will qualify all this with, my preference is that EP were to rediscover his game and he didn't need to be traded at all, because he is an exceptional player when he's on his game...but like everyone (including those who think they know) else around here, I don't know what ails EP, if its permanent or temporary, if its injury related or a mental/happiness/confidence issue...what I do know is that there is a distinct possibility that WE may never see him regain his form in Vancouver and with his impending NMC there is risk associated with keeping him, just as there is with moving on from him. All I want is due diligence taken by Management and coaches when they ultimately make their decision to keep him or move him, because they would likely know better than any of us.

While I don't deny we're gambling either way. The major difference here is only one of those players has actually put up 100 points before.

They will. Which isn't here if we're trading Pettersson and hoping prospects and several young players all take a significant step in the next few years. That isn't to say we couldn't be a winning team, eventually. But Colorado, Carolina and Toronto can all offer them the same money while being in a much better position to win. Not to mention, several other teams. Hughes is great, but any UFA also knows he could walk away and now the team is dead in the water.

I didn't gloss over it because like you said, none of them are first line centers. We're hoping Chytil or Cozen take pretty massive steps to become one. As for Kulich, he'd be quite a ways off--if we even acquired a prospect that good. I tossed him in for the hell of it despite the person I quoted saying "even for a shit return."

That's the key to it though. I'd feel a lot differently if Hughes was guaranteed to be here for the long haul. I'm not even necessarily against moving Pettersson. It just can't be simply to dump him and hope shopping in the off season fixes everything. Although, like you, my preference is to keep him.

 

[rypper]

So Dhaliwal went on radio Wednesday morning with Drance and was pretty emphatic about the injury not being an issue anymore.

He talked about the agent admitting the knee was a problem in the off-season when it came to training but it's not anymore.

Yet his skating still looks jank. So I don't really understand...

(I'm not an injury denier per se, I'm just really confused as to what's going on)

I listened as well and that was all Dhali's opinion, he wasn't giving information that he'd heard or anything. Just clearing that up.

 

[kanucks25]

I listened as well and that was all Dhali's opinion, he wasn't giving information that he'd heard or anything. Just clearing that up.

I just listened to it again and I don't really feel any differently about it.

Still sounds like to me that he was stating what he believes and typically what he believes is based on the information he is given.

"I do wanna say this: he is healthy now. Like, he wouldn't be at the 4 Nations if he wasn't healthy...

I wanna get that straight, I don't think he's injured right now...

But I wanna say he's healthy now and let's see where he goes from here."

 

[Bobby9]

Okay. Let's play a little game. We trade Pettersson to Buffalo for Cozens, Kulich and a pick. Which isn't even a horrendous trade.

This now leaves us with 25M in the off season and no legitimate first line center. Now who do you purpose we sign with all that money? Rantanen and Marner aren't coming here. They'd want to be on contenders. Regardless, they would eat half that cap amount themselves chasing 13-14M deal contracts.

Our center options are as followed, since we'd absolutely need to sign one: Duchene, Granlund, Tavaras, Giroux, Marchand.

Noticing a trend here? They're all well into their 30s or mostly play wing nowadays. And we still haven't replaced Boeser. It's not like Ehlers will come any cheaper. Assuming he even leaves Winnipeg.

So do explain how this scenario convinces Hughes to stay when we'd have a forward corps not much better than the Habs.

Cap space is great... when there's actually players to spend it on that want to be here. Most of the good ones aren't going to be all that interesting playing for a team that just traded their two top six centers for pennies on the dollar.

You are correct, but that does not mean we should keep a player who as an asset is depreciating.

His value could go up or it could get even worse. Just depends on what side of the bet you want to be on.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You are correct, but that does not mean we should keep a player who as an asset is depreciating.

His value could go up or it could get even worse. Just depends on what side of the bet you want to be on.

Everyone but you and your ~7 buddies are on the side that his value will go up.

 

[Coffee]

Everyone but you and your ~7 buddies are on the side that his value will go up.

There should be 9. Bobby and the 9

 

[Bobby9]

Everyone but you and your ~7 buddies are on the side that his value will go up.

I’ve proven more people wrong in my life.

Everything I said about this player is now on full display.

Weak body.
Weak mind.
Low compete.
Bad contract.

I am even more certain because my past predictions of him are all true for your viewing pleasure.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Found it. He acknowledged it.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vanco...layers-reveal-injuries-during-exit-interviews

Tocchet did acknowledge Pettersson's tendinitis. They knew about it; they just didn't consider it a significant injury.

This is why they were shocked when Pettersson did think it was significant enough to impede his play.

Seravalli: Canucks were shocked to hear Pettersson blame part of his play on injured knee

<em>Daily Faceoff </em>hockey insider Frank Seravalli made an appearan...

canucksarmy.com

 

[Tinhorn1]

So Dhaliwal went on radio Wednesday morning with Drance and was pretty emphatic about the injury not being an issue anymore.

He talked about the agent admitting the knee was a problem in the off-season when it came to training but it's not anymore.

Yet his skating still looks jank. So I don't really understand...

(I'm not an injury denier per se, I'm just really confused as to what's going on)

Bad training due to injury will likely equal weak skating for the year. A look at Hronek's before-season and after-season pictures gives a good idea of what happens to NHL players' bodies over the course of a year. I don't expect Pettersson's first stride to return until next year, unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong, and I still hold out some hope for other aspects of his game. Not much, but some. Pretty depressing place to be, and you don't have to have a pathological dislike of the player (as some seem to have) to be a little glass-half-empty about it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I will qualify all this with, my preference is that EP were to rediscover his game and he didn't need to be traded at all, because he is an exceptional player when he's on his game...but like everyone (including those who think they know) else around here, I don't know what ails EP, if its permanent or temporary, if its injury related or a mental/happiness/confidence issue...what I do know is that there is a distinct possibility that WE may never see him regain his form in Vancouver and with his impending NMC there is risk associated with keeping him, just as there is with moving on from him. All I want is due diligence taken by Management and coaches when they ultimately make their decision to keep him or move him, because they would likely know better than any of us.

Canucker, with all respect, how do you know there is a distinct possibility Pettersson may never regain his form in VAN when you don't know what ails EP?

Last, there is enough doubt now with this management group and coach that if it ever came to trading EP, I don't want this group to helm that project. I have confidence that they can supplement EP, Hughes, and Demko, but not replace them.

 

[Canucker]

Canucker, with all respect, how do you know there is a distinct possibility Pettersson may never regain his form in VAN when you don't know what ails EP?

Last, there is enough doubt now with this management group and coach that if it ever came to trading EP, I don't want this group to helm that project. I have confidence that they can supplement EP, Hughes, and Demko, but not replace them.

Firstly, I don't "know" anything more or less than anyone else around here...do you know for sure he will regain his form in Vancouver? IMO it's all assumptive really....he could return to form, he might not. Would love to see it happen but based on watching him over the last year or so, I'm having some doubts.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Firstly, I don't "know" anything more or less than anyone else around here...do you know for sure he will regain his form in Vancouver? IMO it's all assumptive really....he could return to form, he might not. Would love to see it happen but based on watching him over the last year or so, I'm having some doubts.

Doubts are fine. You had projected a "distinct possibility he may never recover" based upon not knowing what ails him. I just asked how that lack of knowledge led you to draw any conclusion? "He could return to form, he might not" seems more apt.

Nobody here is going to know Pettersson's exact injury details. The frame is: Do we have a good idea? I think we do with enough evidence to support that it's his knee. He has to rest it enough to allow for proper offseason training.

If you accept that, there is an end point to all of this. Just like when people had given up Demko for dead, trade proposals everywhere, and then he started to dominate. Or Eichel, or Vilardi etc... It just requires a patience level that few fanbases can stomach.

 

[Canucker]

Doubts are fine. You had projected a "distinct possibility he may never recover" based upon not knowing what ails him. I just asked how that lack of knowledge led you to draw any conclusion? "He could return to form, he might not" seems more apt.

Nobody here is going to know Pettersson's exact injury details. The frame is: Do we have a good idea? I think we do with enough evidence to support that it's his knee. He has to rest it enough to allow for proper offseason training.

If you accept that, there is an end point to all of this. Just like when people had given up Demko for dead, trade proposals everywhere, and then he started to dominate. Or Eichel, or Vilardi etc... It just requires a patience level that few fanbases can stomach.

But I don’t accept that completely, and I dont believe there is enough evidence to claim that the knee is the only issue, and dismiss other potential reasons for this prolonged slump… I definitely think there is enough evidence to make an argument for it, but i also think there is enough evidence to believe there could be more to it than just his knee, and im not going to just assume its just a knee thing and it will get better and he’ll be fine.

 

[racerjoe]

But I don’t accept that completely, and I dont believe there is enough evidence to claim that the knee is the only issue, and dismiss other potential reasons for this prolonged slump… I definitely think there is enough evidence to make an argument for it, but i also think there is enough evidence to believe there could be more to it than just his knee, and im not going to just assume its just a knee thing and it will get better and he’ll be fine.

It’s not the only reason, most just agree it’s the catalyst

 

[TraderJim]

It’s not the only reason, most just agree it’s the catalyst

Anyone that disagrees that it isn't 100% the tendonitis is labelled a Pettersson hater. Just look at the last page of responses.

Everyone was dunking on "the Benning haters" too back after that bubble playoff run and we all know how that turned out in the end.

 

[racerjoe]

Anyone that disagrees that it isn't 100% the tendonitis is labelled a Pettersson hater. Just look at the last page of responses.

Everyone was dunking on "the Benning haters" too back after that bubble playoff run and we all know how that turned out in the end.

I have been reading this thread since it was the original Pettersson thread… I know where the conversation is, and it’s just a few posters that have an irrational hate for Pettersson who keep bringing it up this way.

 

[I am toxic]

But I don’t accept that completely, and I dont believe there is enough evidence to claim that the knee is the only issue, and dismiss other potential reasons for this prolonged slump… I definitely think there is enough evidence to make an argument for it, but i also think there is enough evidence to believe there could be more to it than just his knee, and im not going to just assume its just a knee thing and it will get better and he’ll be fine.

Thank you for the disingenuous bullshit

The issue has always been whether Petey was injured, or instead had character flaws

All the evidence shows that Petey does not have character flaws*, and that he was injured and now is further hampered by confidence issues. Confidence issues are not a character flaw, they are a fact of life that all players deal with.

* he does have character flaws, you all do. But none of this is evidence of that. I do not have character flaws, I am flawlessly . . . you know

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

it kind of just occurred to me that this discussion is eerily similar to detroit fans savaging fedorov in the late 90s, when he was still playing excellent defence but scoring at a fraction of his previous superstar pace

of course they had already won a couple cups but still

 

[Grub]

Using my 10,000 post to say lets move Elias Pettersson (F) before its' to late. We won't win anything with his soft play, and if this is the Petey were going to get then we have to move him before that contract kicks in and his value plummets. We got a good D-core now, now it's time to change the stale forward core.

Hopefully I eat crow and this becomes a jynx post, but I highly doubt it. Remember Florida moving Huberdeua and winning the cup shortly after. There's really no excuse why Pettersson has been struggling so much when you're playing with the #1 defensemen (Norris Winner) in the NHL that can move and dish the puck like that. It's actually embarassing, his point totals would be much lower without Hughes.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I'm not here to argue because I generally respect the posters in the pro-Pettersson camp and I have no interest in infighting with fellow Canuck fans.

But there's no question that Pettersson and his agent have every incentive in the world to claim that was injured. Generally statements from players' agents are understood to be very biased in favor of their client.

The part that doesn't make sense to me, is that the Canucks as an organization also had every incentive in the world to claim that he was injured, but they didn't.

If they agree that Pettersson was injured, they get the following benefits:

1) They keep his trade value high. If he's injured, his poor play isn't his fault! He's just injured. Teams will be more willing to give up assets for him if they expect him to return to form after he's healthy.

2) They keep Pettersson happy. They shield him from criticism and take all of the pressure off his shoulders. Nobody expects much from him, because he's injured!

3) They keep Brisson happy. Brisson is Hughes' agent. Hughes is the franchise. You want his agent, his mom, his barber and his dog walker all to be happy with you. Why risk pissing Brisson off?

So why in the world would they refute his injury, publically call him out and allow him to be the recipient of media scrutiny, even stoking that further with public statements?

The only logical explanation is that they genuinely do not believe he was injured.

---

The second part that doesn't make sense to me is the actions of Pettersson himself.

Why play 82 games if you're injured? Why not take some time off? Why play in the All-Star game?

Why play the final game of the season in Winnipeg, on the road, when a bunch of the Canuck players such as Hronek, Miller and Boeser all skipped the trip because it was meaningless to the standings?

Would the tendonitis have fully healed with a one or two week break? Maybe not. But rest is always good for tendonitis.

---

And just to make sure I'm following here, the Pettersson camp is claiming that he recovered from this injury, correct? That he is not currently injured?

Because if he's still currently injured, why did he wait until December to take time out of the lineup? And if he's still currently injured, why did he return to the lineup? And why is he playing in the 4 Nations?

If he's not currently injured, then what's the excuse for his poor play this season? Lack of training camp? How long is that supposed to last? Don't you play yourself into game shape by this point? We're halfway through the season?

---

I don't even know what the story is anymore, a lot of it really doesn't make sense to me.

 

[racerjoe]

How many players did management say weren’t injured? Mik? Dickinson? Demko? I am sure the list goes on. I mean it seems our management just sucks at that.

Second… because it’s something you “can” play through and most highly competitive people will play if they can. Hell, I sprained my ankle last week, but I have it taped up and am about to go play volleyball on it, and it’s just drop in.

Depends on the severity of the tendinitis on recovery time, but from what I heard, from some NBA study, it can take up to a year to recover.

The current claim is like most here have said, because of the injury his offseason training was effected and it won’t be until next year for him to get back his speed that seems to be missing.

 

[Grumbler]

Okay. Let's play a little game. We trade Pettersson to Buffalo for Cozens, Kulich and a pick. Which isn't even a horrendous trade.

This now leaves us with 25M in the off season and no legitimate first line center. Now who do you purpose we sign with all that money? Rantanen and Marner aren't coming here. They'd want to be on contenders. Regardless, they would eat half that cap amount themselves chasing 13-14M deal contracts.

Our center options are as followed, since we'd absolutely need to sign one: Duchene, Granlund, Tavaras, Giroux, Marchand.

Noticing a trend here? They're all well into their 30s or mostly play wing nowadays. And we still haven't replaced Boeser. It's not like Ehlers will come any cheaper. Assuming he even leaves Winnipeg.

So do explain how this scenario convinces Hughes to stay when we'd have a forward corps not much better than the Habs.

Cap space is great... when there's actually players to spend it on that want to be here. Most of the good ones aren't going to be all that interesting playing for a team that just traded their two top six centers for pennies on the dollar.

We just need to get rid of him. Even not having him right now, the team would be in a better position with freed up salary.

And I seriously doubt management would make a trade that is so bad that the current team with the current him is going to be better. It is a huge risk to wait for him to turn around when his NTC is just around the corner to plummet his trade value (and by then yes, we are actually likely to make a trade so bad, that the team with the current him would actually be better).

Also "waiting for him to come around" I think is a terrible path to take, especially if one reviewed the harsh lessons this management took from the past 14 years.

Edit: Also I don't hate him...and I doubt the other posters here who wants him gone hates him. We are just posting what we think is best for the team. So please to those posters...

 

[I am toxic]

Now that the character assassination has been put to pasture, the next question is whether the tendinitis was acute or is chronic

If it was acute, then Stone him - take him out of circulation, build his leg strength, and insert him into the playoffs

If it is chronic, and percutaneous ultrasound tenotomy doesnt work, move him, altho his medical condition would have to be disclosed, and the return would be useless but could free up cap space

Given the fact pattern publicly given, I would be shocked* if the tendinitis is not chronic at this point, thanks to Canucks medical staff monumental incompetence

*shocked is too mild a term. Flabbergasted? No, that does not do it justice either. Connipted. That's it. I will go into conniptions if it is not the case