Brind'Amour throws Tulsky under the bus for the Rantanen situation: "And the question is, should we have known that before we attempted to sign him?"

[BHD]

I wonder if he was ever consider as thr guy to replace Burke in Toronto

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

They turned

Necas
Drury
2nd
4th

into

Stankoven
1st
1st
3rd
3rd

That’s pretty good IMO. Not sure they really lost out much.

That's not really good since they are competing right now not in 5 years

 

[qc14]

You have to take things in context. The Canes took a step back last summer and this year is the beginning of the new build. There really isn’t any real huge expectations of the Canes winning this season. They made the roster better for the future. Necas wasn’t a long term options. We’ve got Hall who’s playing well and it sounds like he’s staying, plus Stank who’s got a good chance of being a core player plus two first rounders to either draft or trade.

Sure it would be great to use Necas to target a 2C or RD but they got good value for him in the end.

RBA wants to win every season so of course he gets annoyed but Necas annoyed him just as much. The only true mistake I think the Canes have made recently is grinding Jake and losing him. Long term that’s probably a good choice though.

I mean that's all well and good to talk about on message boards and fans (and owners) love hearing shit about "sustainable winners" but the players and coaching staff are a completely different story. Everyone who plays and coaches in the league wants to win every single game and win a Cup. They don't care about what the team's cap situation is going to look like in 3 years -- that doesn't help them get a bigger paycheck. Why should Rod care that the team is probably better off three years from now? He could be fired by then, but he has a chance to win a cup now.

There's always tension like this between coaches and GMs. It's natural due to the conflicting nature of their jobs. The reason this thread exists is because it's almost unheard of for a coach to actually come out and publicly take shots at the GM/owner/management group for it.

 

[My3Sons]

This was out of line by Brind’Amour in my view. Rip Tulsky to Dundon or to his face but don’t air the dirty laundry this way. If the speculation about the bluff was correct then he’s just being petulant.

 

[The GM]

What else is he hiding?

That he is not just the president of hair club for men, he’s also a member

 

[Number8]

Sounds like Fred had a really special evening planned for you guys and you played him for a fool. Sometimes I don’t know why he even bothers.

I wonder what Fred had in mind when he invited The Grinder to this intimate affair. What with the candles, hand food, and The Grinder’s favorite vino.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

That he is not just the president of hair club for men, he’s also a member

 

[Quinning]

Brindamour must have some amazing job security.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Look no further than Elias Pettersson if you want a better example. Vancouver was having trouble getting Pettersson to sign a new deal. Vancouver started discussing a trade with Carolina, to the point where both sides needed to have “serious discussions about where the relationship was heading“ Pettersson, when faced with the possibility of a trade, came back to the bargaining table and signed a new deal with Vancouver.

Rantanen/his agent thought the same move was being played here. They assumed the trade threat to Carolina was a bluff to get them to reconsider their position, and it wasn’t.

That example shows how a team can leverage outside interest and the threat of a trade to induce a player to sign.

That’s different from what you posit, which is that Rantanen was feigning interest in an extension with Carolina, in order to somehow induce Colorado to raise their contract offer.

Vancouver was able to leverage Carolina’s interest against Pettersson because they had the ability to unilaterally trade him without his permission. Thus they successfully used the threat of “punishing” him with a trade to get him to do what they wanted — sign an extension.

Rantanen had no such ability to act unilaterally against the wishes of Colorado - in order to sign an extension during the season with Carolina, he would first need to be traded there, which only happens if Colorado wants to trade him. Thus he has no standing to leverage a threat of “punishment” to induce Colorado to raise their contract offer.

So yeah, I still don’t understand why that would be considered a viable or desirable strategy by Rantanen or his agent, and the Pettersson example doesn’t provide any support for it either.

 

[Foppa2118]

For me the situation is kinda like “do I want to go to Fred’s house three Saturday's from now?” Someone asks me that I go “yea maybe, I gotta see what I got going on but il probably let you know” Feigning interest not to be rude but I have no intention of going to Fred’s house. Fred’s house is weird, kinda small and smells like old malted 40 bottles and skittles (cause of the candles).

When the time comes to confirm whether I will be going to Fred’s, I got say “Nah man not really, I can think of at least 4 other places I’d rather be.”

It’s kinda like that. Now if Fred bought extra boneless chicken wings and that wine he knows I like to drink, that’s on him. I never confirmed my attendance.

Fred gettin the Jiri Tlusty treatment.

 

[PensandCaps]

I get that Stankoven and two 1st rounders is a great return for Necas. But at some point you have to actually go all out and try to win if you're Carolina. You had a superstar in Mikko, and Necas is better than Stankoven. The players and coach who want to win now are rightly pissed off. You got worse in a year that you are contending, straight up. Talking about asset management is loser mentality. Should have rode with Mikko into the playoffs. Show you actually want to win.

This also adds to the narrative that Carolina is a terrible place for offensive stars to play because of their system. Mikko has immediately lit up the score sheet in Dallas.

 

[Foppa2118]

This also adds to the narrative that Carolina is a terrible place for offensive stars to play because of their system. Mikko has immediately lit up the score sheet in Dallas.

Maybe that's why Brind'Amour in publicly throwing his GM under the bus?

 

[PensandCaps]

Can you explain why it would benefit Rantanen to say he was interested in signing with Carolina if that wasn’t true? What leverage does he gain by saying he would be open to signing with Carolina after a trade?

To scare Colorado into giving him more money. Leverage the interest a team has for you into more money.

I think Carolina did well with their situation.

Stankoven is going to be a first line winger. They also got two firsts and two thirds. They started out with Necas and turned that into Stankoven, 2 1's and 2 3's. They also in the meantime got one of the league's better forwards to play for them during that span. I guess they gave up Drury and a 2nd also, but to me getting basically the equivalent of Stankoven, a 1, and a 2 is a good deal for Necas.

I don't really get why Rantanen's family didn't like Carolina. I would totally get it if he was turned off by that dreadful dressing room or how cheap the owner is, but his family didn't like Carolina but likes Dallas? Seems pretty similar to me for what Rantanen, a foreigner to the USA, would likely believe ("Southern USA and all the cliches that come with that").

I should say though that I have no problem with Rantanen not wanting to sign with Carolina, even if I don't totally get the sequence of events. He was a UFA. No one should've expected he'd sign with a random team he was traded to. If he wanted to call the shots and only field offers from four teams, who can blame him? He was a UFA in July, and could've done that in July, so either meet his demands now or he was waiting until July.

Stankoven isn't some sure bet to be a top 64 winger in the NHL. He's kind of small, not a great finisher. Could happen, but I think he's more a 2nd line guy, complimentary winger on a 1st line.

I think Dallas did well to sell high on him.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Brindamour must have some amazing job security.

Have you seen or heard Tlusty? He will probably go into work tomorrow and start sucking Robs toes.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

That example shows how a team can leverage outside interest and the threat of a trade to induce a player to sign.

That’s different from what you posit, which is that Rantanen was feigning interest in an extension with Carolina, in order to somehow induce Colorado to raise their contract offer.

No, what I’m saying is that Rantanen’s camp thought that the trade talk with Carolina was similar to what Vancouver did with Pettersson. Vancouver threatened the trade with Carolina to bring Pettersson back to the table. Rantanen’s camp thought that the Avalanche were threatening the trade with Carolina to bring Rantanen back to the table. They thought it was a bluff on Colorado’s part. So they called the bluff and said “Yeah, sure, we’ll sign an extension with Carolina if you trade him there”, thus taking away the power of that “threat”.

Except it wasn’t a bluff and it wasn’t a threat. It was a legitimate ask by the Avalanche about whether Rantanen would re-sign in Carolina, and his camp gave the affirmative that they would. That affirmation was passed onto Carolina, who made the trade based off that claim.

I get that Stankoven and two 1st rounders is a great return for Necas. But at some point you have to actually go all out and try to win if you're Carolina. You had a superstar in Mikko, and Necas is better than Stankoven. The players and coach who want to win now are rightly pissed off. You got worse in a year that you are contending, straight up. Talking about asset management is loser mentality. Should have rode with Mikko into the playoffs. Show you actually want to win.

This also adds to the narrative that Carolina is a terrible place for offensive stars to play because of their system. Mikko has immediately lit up the score sheet in Dallas.

You must not have seen Rantanen play in Carolina if you believe they should have “rode with him into the playoffs.” Also, the whole system argument falls apart when you see that Guenztal came to Carolina in very similar circumstances to Rantanen and put up 25 points in 17 games.

 

[PensandCaps]

No, what I’m saying is that Rantanen’s camp thought that the trade talk with Carolina was similar to what Vancouver did with Pettersson. Vancouver threatened the trade with Carolina to bring Pettersson back to the table. Rantanen’s camp thought that the Avalanche were threatening the trade with Carolina to bring Rantanen back to the table. They thought it was a bluff on Colorado’s part. So they called the bluff and said “Yeah, sure, we’ll sign an extension with Carolina if you trade him there”, thus taking away the power of that “threat”.

Except it wasn’t a bluff and it wasn’t a threat. It was a legitimate ask by the Avalanche about whether Rantanen would re-sign in Carolina, and his camp gave the affirmative that they would. That affirmation was passed onto Carolina, who made the trade based off that claim.



You must not have seen Rantanen play in Carolina if you believe they should have “rode with him into the playoffs.” Also, the whole system argument falls apart when you see that Guenztal came to Carolina in very similar circumstances to Rantanen and put up 25 points in 17 games.

Yah, Guentzel and Rants are two completely different players.

Guentzel isn't a dynamic skill guy, he's the exact type that thrives in a Carolina system. high IQ, fantastic in the cycle, fits on any line. But he's not Rants when it comes to being a dynamic game breaker.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Yah, Guentzel and Rants are two completely different players.

Guentzel isn't a dynamic skill guy, he's the exact type that thrives in a Carolina system. high IQ, fantastic in the cycle, fits on any line. But he's not Rants when it comes to being a dynamic game breaker.

But do you disagree that he’s an offensive star? Because that was your claim, that “Carolina is a terrible place for offensive stars to play”. Guenztel thrived here, and considering he’s got 30 goals this season, and has multiple 40-goal seasons in his career, I’d say it’s accurate to call him an offensive star.

 

[Hint1k]

It is funny that incompetent coach complaining about the incompetence of the GM who keeps him employed.

Oh mate, your first clue should have been: "why I am still the coach after multiple failures in playoffs?"

 

[Mobiandi]

The left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing down in Raleigh

 

[The don godfather]

Who cares canes hosed the stars with that stankoven and endless amount of top picks they received.

 

[PensandCaps]

But do you disagree that he’s an offensive star? Because that was your claim, that “Carolina is a terrible place for offensive stars to play”. Guenztel thrived here, and considering he’s got 30 goals this season, and has multiple 40-goal seasons in his career, I’d say it’s accurate to call him an offensive star.

Meh, Guentzel isn't a 50/100 guy like Rants, Everyone knew he would fit like a glove in Carolina because he really isn't some guy where the offense is centered around him, and again he dominates the cycle.

But there were questions about Mikko fitting in because he really doesn't fit that style Carolina plays.

Mikko is a tier above Guentzel. Guentzel is not an offensive star who blows by guys with his speed and skill. He's just so damn good in the Ozone at finding soft spots in coverage and being one step ahead mentally. He fit perfectly, no clue why Carolina didn't just give him 9x8 and call it a day.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Mikko is a tier above Guentzel. Guentzel is not an offensive star who blows by guys with his speed and skill. He's just so damn good in the Ozone at finding soft spots in coverage and being one step ahead mentally. He fit perfectly, no clue why Carolina didn't just give him 9x8 and call it a day.

We’ll see how Mikko plays in Dallas before we call him a tier above. Playing with MacKinnon and Makar will boost anyone’s offensive production.

And believe me, I wish the Canes gave Guenztel what he wanted as well. Dundon’s need to be the “winner” of every deal bit him in the ass that time.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Yo, I hope this f***edry happens more often. It’s hilarious, good work incompetent GMs!

My favorite part is how if it were all kept in-house and rumors didn’t start/leak, it really wouldn’t be awful imo. I see how it happens, mistakes were made, but it seems Rantanen wasn’t actually as certain on signing as Carolina thought he was. You can do a number of things with that- trying to trade for Marner, Boeser, and then in-fighting is just the best choice possible.

 

[LevelingSolo]

Maybe didnt want to play in a defensive system

 

[NYRfan31]

Rantanen sucked in Carolina. They got a good young player in Stankoven and multiple 1st round picks and a 3rd. They can use those other 1sts to add other players or to build their farm. Shit happens