Proposal: Brian Little and Nick Ehlers for Alexander Barkov or Sebastian Aho ?

[Pongs21]

Why would the panthers add to that

I'll admit, that one was off base. Jet's probably add a little something more here. In another posts I had stated the add would be a late round pick/nothing prospect. But that a deal involving these pieces would probably require more pieces being added.

 

[IvanProvorov]

I laughed out loud at whoever wrote Barkov is overrated. Kid is a monster.

 

[QuietContrarian]

I love Aho, but I’m not sure he’d produce the way Ehlers has past two seasons without get top line or top PP time. In Winnipeg, much of the prime opportunity Aho has to produce would be negated as he’d lose a lot of it to the big(ger) guns.

This!

Have seen more than a fair share of posters completely underselling Ehlers lately.

Ehlers had one of the best pts60 in the league.

Some games he was playing 12-13 mins and little to no pp, and would still produce.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Excuse me but Ehlers plays with Laine, he's also seen the ice with Scheifele/Wheeler and Aho has the edge here?
Aho would be magic with those guys.

Aho was #1 in his teams scoring and scored more than Ehlers on a low scoring team.

Excuse me but Ehlers plays with Laine, he's also seen the ice with Scheifele/Wheeler and Aho has the edge here?
Aho would be magic with those guys.

Aho was #1 in his teams scoring and scored more than Ehlers on a low scoring team.

lol.. Ehlers played almost a full 2minutes less per game than aho.

Playing with Laine is not a guarantee for pts lol, and Ehlrs did not see alot of ice with Chef or Wheeler.

Ehlers saw little pp time, and was one of the most lineshuffled player on the Jets.

This thread makes it sound like Aho is in a whole other tier.

Lol, never change hf...

 

[QuietContrarian]

i'd say Winnipegs #2PP has better offensive players on it than Carolina's #1PP.


anyway..throw that out...explain how Aho outscored Ehlers 5v5, playing with worse linemates? wonder what the excuse is this for this one.

Aho played more mins pr game.

If Ehlers played the same minutes and pp1, he would be in the 70s.

 

[member 157595]

I laughed out loud at whoever wrote Barkov is overrated. Kid is a monster.

No kidding. He's a handful and he's signed for pennies on the dollar. I hate playing against him.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Mainly I only really did want ro see how other teams fans value their players. And now it became pretty clear how biased the homeboyz are about their own current players.
Aho is far more better than Ehlers and you can throw in Little at the same time (cap dump) and still Winnipeg would come out as the big winner. Carolina won’t move Aho though, he is just getting started.
Barkov is a top5 center in the game and just getting better by the minute and Winnipeg simply does not have anything to match that without moving Scheiffele and addition (which they of course won’t do).

Winnipeg however needs a decent 2c and Little is currently a millstone for the team(would fit better in some other team) and Ehlers is a movable piece as well.

 

[Beezeral]

I wouldn't trade Ehlers straight up for Aho so no.
Barkov deal hurts but I'd consider it. Would want an add from the Panthers though

LMAO. I know you changed your thoughts after being called out, but still LMAO at thinking a little add from the Jets makes this possible.

I'd rather see something around Trouba for Barkov.

I agree. lets trade a top 5-10 center in the NHL for a #2/3 D-man who needs a new contract. GREAT IDEA

I know it's a dream, but Little for Barkov would be something. Ehlers I think is likely staying with the Jets for a long time.

You got to love the obviously delusional post that knows its delusional but gets posted anyway.

i might still take barkov over connor and ehlers

Might? LMAO

I find Barkov and Aho to both be slightly over rated, that said I can see Little and Ehlers for Barkov but not for Aho, Little or Ehlers straight up for Aho IMO.

Calls Barkov overrated and then says the OPs deal is fair. WOOF

 

[QuietContrarian]

Scheiffele+Ehlers would not even give Barkov

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This!

Have seen more than a fair share of posters completely underselling Ehlers lately.

Ehlers had one of the best pts60 in the league.

Some games he was playing 12-13 mins and little to no pp, and would still produce.

Really? Aho's P/60 "all situations" was 2.79 and Ehler's P/60 was 2.73 (according to Natural Stat Trick).

Here are their 2017/18 numbers broken out (from Natural Stat Trick)
5v5:
Ehlers: 0.94 Goals/60, 2.15 Points /60
Aho: 0.97 Goals/60, 2.38 Point / 60

PP:
Ehlers: 2.02 Goals/60; 4.67 P/60
Aho: 2.31 Goals/60; 4.62 P/60

Quality of Competiton (from player usage charts).
Ehlers: -.0485
Aho: +.1970

Most common linemates ES (based on TOI with from Natural Stat trick)
Ehler: Patrick Laine, Bryan Little, Dustin Byfuglien, Josh Morrisey: 49 goals, 117 points from those players ES
Aho: Teuvo Teravainen, Jordan Staal, Jaccob Slavin, Justin Faulk: 43 goals, 116 points from those players ES

So Aho scored at a rate > than Ehlers 5v5 and equal to Ehlers on the PP, while playing against tougher competition, with worse linemates on a lower scoring team. I'm fine if someone like Ehlers better and won't get into a argument about two very good players, but the notion that Aho just benefited from better opportunities is not backed up by any data I can see (or is there a different source of data that disputes this?)

 

[QuietContrarian]

Really? Aho's P/60 "all situations" was 2.79 and Ehler's P/60 was 2.73 (according to Natural Stat Trick).

Here are their 2017/18 numbers broken out (from Natural Stat Trick)
5v5:
Ehlers: 0.94 Goals/60, 2.15 Points /60
Aho: 0.97 Goals/60, 2.38 Point / 60

PP:
Ehlers: 2.02 Goals/60; 4.67 P/60
Aho: 2.31 Goals/60; 4.62 P/60

Quality of Competiton (from player usage charts).
Ehlers: -.0485
Aho: +.1970

Most common linemates ES (based on TOI with from Natural Stat trick)
Ehler: Patrick Laine, Bryan Little, Dustin Byfuglien, Josh Morrisey: 49 goals, 117 points from those players ES
Aho: Teuvo Teravainen, Jordan Staal, Jaccob Slavin, Justin Faulk: 43 goals, 116 points from those players ES

So Aho scored at a rate > than Ehlers 5v5 and equal to Ehlers on the PP, while playing against tougher competition, with worse linemates on a lower scoring team. I'm fine if someone like Ehlers better and won't get into a argument about two very good players, but the notion that Aho just benefited from better opportunities is not backed up by any data I can see (or is there a different source of data that disputes this?)

I should have added, playing under 17mins a game and ES.

Pretty hard to incl. pp when Ehlers hardly played any.

And I think you are defo squeezing the lemon on the better linemates argument.

Aho alos seems to have had way way more linemate consistency.
Ehlers played more last season and had 64pts.

facing tougher comp, sure ill give him that.

Btw, I never agreed a trade would be good. I disagree to the notion that Aho per this thread is tiers above Ehlers, which is just silly, hf silly.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Aho played more mins pr game.

If Ehlers played the same minutes and pp1, he would be in the 70s.

Aho P/60 5v5: 2.38, Ehlers: 2.15
Aho P/60 PP: 4.62; Ehlers: 4.67

Canes PP: #22 in NHL at 18.4%
Jets PP: #5 in NHL at 23.4%

Aho scored at a better rate 5v5 and at a similar rate on the PP despite being on a far inferior offensive team. Aho also faced tougher competition and had inferior linemates to Ehlers 5v5.

I agree if Ehlers had more PP time his point total would have increased, but you can't discount that Aho faced tougher competition, was on a worse scoring team and had worse linemates as part of the equation.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Pretty hard to incl. pp when Ehlers hardly played any.

He had over two minutes per game on the power play.

 

[QuietContrarian]

He had over two minutes per game on the power play.

Yeah, I find that hard to believe.

2nd pp most of the season, on a team where pp1 clearly dominates toi.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Yeah, I find that hard to believe.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I should have added, playing under 17mins a game and EV.

Pretty hard to incl. pp when Ehlers hardly played any.

He played 166 minutes to Aho's 208. Yes, it's less than Aho's but it's not "hardly any".

And I think you are defo squeezing the lemon on the better linemates argument.

Not at all. Playing with better players that score more goals = more chances for assists/goals yourself. Not really that complicated.

facing tougher comp, sure ill give him that.

Btw, I never agreed a trade would be good. I disagree to the notion that Aho per this thread is tiers above Ehlers, which is just silly, hf silly.

I don't think he is Tiers above Ehlers either. I just don't think the whole argument that Aho's situation is what allowed him to score more is a valid argument, particularly when the P/60 don't bear that out. The Canes were an anemic offensive team and other teams just had to focus on Aho's line to shut them down. Their PP was terrible. Put it this way, put Ehlers on the Canes in Aho's situation and I don't think he'd score any more either. Not a knock on Ehlers as I think he's a fantastic player, just a statement on the teams they play on.

 

[QuietContrarian]

NHL.com - Stats

Take that into context.

He is 8th on the team, and often got the last 25-30 seconds of pp.
even if that adds up, its harder to produce with 25-30 secs of pp.

Aho also has more pp, and more toi es.

 

[QuietContrarian]

He played 166 minutes to Aho's 208. Yes, it's less than Aho's but it's not "hardly any".



Not at all. Playing with better players that score more goals = more chances for assists/goals yourself. Not really that complicated.



I don't think he is Tiers above Ehlers either. I just don't think the whole argument that Aho's situation is what allowed him to score more. The Canes were an anemic offensive team and other teams just had to focus on Aho's line to shut them down. Their PP was terrible. Put it this way, put Ehlers on the Canes in Aho's situation and I don't think he'd score any more either. Not a knock on Ehlers as I think he's a fantastic player, just a statement on the teams they play on.

He played 166 minutes to Aho's 208. Yes, it's less than Aho's but it's not "hardly any".



Not at all. Playing with better players that score more goals = more chances for assists/goals yourself. Not really that complicated.



I don't think he is Tiers above Ehlers either. I just don't think the whole argument that Aho's situation is what allowed him to score more is a valid argument, particularly when the P/60 don't bear that out. The Canes were an anemic offensive team and other teams just had to focus on Aho's line to shut them down. Their PP was terrible. Put it this way, put Ehlers on the Canes in Aho's situation and I don't think he'd score any more either. Not a knock on Ehlers as I think he's a fantastic player, just a statement on the teams they play on.

We can agree on most, but Aho's line generating 1 less pt than Ehlers, is not a valid argument for better linemates imo.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

We can agree on most, but Aho's line generating 1 less pt than Ehlers, is not a valid argument for better linemates imo.

Fair point. 1 less point, 6 more goals. Not a huge difference and maybe in the noise, but Aho didn't play with anyone as offensively gifted as Laine though. Heck, the Canes don't have anyone as offensively gifted as Laine, or Scheifele, or Wheeler for that matter. I don't think others realize how weak the Canes forward group was these past couple of years. You guys have 5 guys that would be in the running for being with Aho (or better than Aho) as the best forward on the team. You guys scored 273 goals last year and the Canes only scored 225. The talent on the two teams was vastly different.

Hopefully Necas and Svechnikov help turn that around.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Fair point. 1 less point, 6 more goals. Not a huge difference and maybe in the noise, but Aho didn't play with anyone as offensively gifted as Laine though. Heck, the Canes don't have anyone as offensively gifted as Laine, or Scheifele, or Wheeler for that matter. I don't think others realize how weak the Canes forward group was these past couple of years. You guys have 5 guys that would be in the running for being with Aho (or better than Aho) as the best forward on the team. You guys scored 273 goals last year and the Canes only scored 225. The talent on the two teams was vastly different.

Hopefully Necas and Svechnikov help turn that around.

for sure.

my only gripe was Ehlers being undersold.

Im not blind, It's clear Aho has huge potential.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I laughed out loud at whoever wrote Barkov is overrated. Kid is a monster.

No doubt!

He's one of my favorite non-Jet players.

Even with Little-Ehlers, we would be adding AT LEAST a first.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

for sure.

my only gripe was Ehlers being undersold..

That's perfectly fine. I won't argue Aho vs. Ehlers overall (as the are both good young players and arguing it is pointless). I was only pointing out the fallacy of the TOI and P/60 arguments that were being made. Aho's P/60 were better than Ehlers this year.

Certainly if Ehlers got more time on the Jets top PP unit, he'd have scored more, but a just as strong argument could be made that if Aho got the same minutes on the Jets top PP unit(which was vastly superior to the Canes), his numbers would have gone up as well. Can't argue one without the other. That's all I'm pointing out.

 

[BB88]

lol.. Ehlers played almost a full 2minutes less per game than aho.

Playing with Laine is not a guarantee for pts lol, and Ehlrs did not see alot of ice with Chef or Wheeler.

Ehlers saw little pp time, and was one of the most lineshuffled player on the Jets.

This thread makes it sound like Aho is in a whole other tier.

Lol, never change hf...

It sure as hell helps to have one of the best finishers on your line.

The big difference between the 2 is that you don't even consider building your offense around Ehlers, you can with Aho.

 

[QuietContrarian]

It sure as hell helps to have one of the best finishers on your line.

The big difference between the 2 is that you don't even consider building your offense around Ehlers, you can with Aho.

Well as good as Laine is, he sure as hell fanned on a lot of grade a passes from Ehlers.

Like ALOT!

And the second, I politely disagree.

Even so, if Aho ends up a center, that is an unfair comparisson to make.
And it was not my gripe.

We get it, you Finns are super pumped for your future, and you have a good few very good young players. But it is starting to get absurd with threads that contain Finn players, they all seem to get hijacked by Finn fanboys.

Yes the Barkov and Aho for Ehlers and Little proposal was bonkers. But mostly because of the adition of Barkov for Little.

Aho = Ehlers

but Barkov >> Little for sure.

 

[BB88]

Well as good as Laine is, he sure as hell fanned on a lot of grade a passes from Ehlers.

Like ALOT!

And the second, I politely disagree.

The guy scored 2nd most goals in the NHL, if you think that was bad go look at Carolina, Aho was Carolinas best point scorer.

We can disagree on Ehlers being the guy to build around, I would hate if the Bruins tried that with Ehlers, I'd have about zero faith on our chances.
Ehlers is great and should be a 1st line player through his prime but he's not the driver of teams offense.