Do you know how Francis described Park? I feel that is very relevant to the conversation about Leetch.
Brian Leetch: very underrated on hfboards?
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- Jul 6, 2017
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Also: technical perfection and captain. I’m sorry ... is something supposed to be missing?
Lidstrom was a treat to watch. He wasn’t flashy but, damn, I’d take Lidstrom over Blake 10/10 — even if Blake was far more entertaining than Nik.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
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NHL needs to make every game from 1968 to today available. Maybe charge a couple bucks for each game. What good are all those games locked up in a vault somewhere?
Joe Ranger Fan 1960
Registered User
Leetch is one of the greatest defensemen ever and one of the worst captains the Rangers have had. You shouldn't need to stick up for your captain on the ice. Not a good quality for a leader. Great player though. One of the best.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Marty McSorely made a pretty good living doing just that...
It is so difficult to rate defensemen over the decades: the game has changed so much, the ideal of the perfect defensemen has evolved so much.
When I was a kid in the last years of the Original Six, the concept of an offensive defensemen did not really exist. You did have some guys like Pierre Pilote with Chicago and JC Tremblay with Montreal who piled up assists on the power play but the ideal was defense first/strong in front of the net, never carry the puck into the offensive zone. Guys like Tim Horton and Doug Harvey.
Along came Bobby Orr and completely changed the game. Every team then went out looking for guys who could rush the puck, shot, but still play strong D: Dennis Potvin, Brad Park. BTW, when Park first came up, I vividly recall his first game, we in the blue seats named him, "the baby faced killer."
Then, in the free-wheeling 80s, we had guys like Paul Coffey: offense first, defense second.
Then we transitioned to a more balanced concept: guys who could still rush the puck but were also fine defensively: Leetch fits right in here. Lidstrom, for sure. Ray Bourque, probably the most perfect Dman I have ever seen, a guy who rarely made mistakes.
Now, we are in the era of the ideal being a guy who can, first and foremost, carry the puck out of the zone, minimizing time spent in the defensive zone.
Brad Park was the perfect D for his era. Leetch was the perfect D for his era. Adam Fox might be developing into the perfect D man for his era.
It is so difficult comparing eras, The game is just so much faster now. I watch tapes of games from the 60s and 70s, even the 80s, and I am always struck with how slow the game was. It didn't seem so at the time: it seemed fast. But today's game? As a fan since the late 1950s, I am continually amazed at the speed of today's game. It is often breathtaking.
Another tidbit: there is most definitely a bias against NY players, a belief that NY hype exaggerates a players ability. We see it on the main boards where people say Henrik was overrated. Heck, if anything, I think he was underrated.
Anyone who thinks Leetch was overrated simply is letting their bias overwhelm reality.
When I was a kid in the last years of the Original Six, the concept of an offensive defensemen did not really exist. You did have some guys like Pierre Pilote with Chicago and JC Tremblay with Montreal who piled up assists on the power play but the ideal was defense first/strong in front of the net, never carry the puck into the offensive zone. Guys like Tim Horton and Doug Harvey.
Along came Bobby Orr and completely changed the game. Every team then went out looking for guys who could rush the puck, shot, but still play strong D: Dennis Potvin, Brad Park. BTW, when Park first came up, I vividly recall his first game, we in the blue seats named him, "the baby faced killer."
Then, in the free-wheeling 80s, we had guys like Paul Coffey: offense first, defense second.
Then we transitioned to a more balanced concept: guys who could still rush the puck but were also fine defensively: Leetch fits right in here. Lidstrom, for sure. Ray Bourque, probably the most perfect Dman I have ever seen, a guy who rarely made mistakes.
Now, we are in the era of the ideal being a guy who can, first and foremost, carry the puck out of the zone, minimizing time spent in the defensive zone.
Brad Park was the perfect D for his era. Leetch was the perfect D for his era. Adam Fox might be developing into the perfect D man for his era.
It is so difficult comparing eras, The game is just so much faster now. I watch tapes of games from the 60s and 70s, even the 80s, and I am always struck with how slow the game was. It didn't seem so at the time: it seemed fast. But today's game? As a fan since the late 1950s, I am continually amazed at the speed of today's game. It is often breathtaking.
Another tidbit: there is most definitely a bias against NY players, a belief that NY hype exaggerates a players ability. We see it on the main boards where people say Henrik was overrated. Heck, if anything, I think he was underrated.
Anyone who thinks Leetch was overrated simply is letting their bias overwhelm reality.
Joe Ranger Fan 1960
Registered User
Good point. You almost need to carry someone to protect the captain in that type of situation. Those days are gone. But even back then, it's what made Messier a better captain than Gretzky.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Yet the Rangers brought in Adam Graves, in part, to be a shield for Messier...
Joe Ranger Fan 1960
Registered User
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
I guess...
I think it would be a lot more telling if teammates didn't stick up for their captain on the ice.
Joe Ranger Fan 1960
Registered User
There are exceptions. Soccer is one. Yzerman is another. Gretzky. IMO it helps a lot to be able to at least protect yourself if you want to successfully captain an NHL squad. I think that hurt the Rangers when Leetch was captain. Should've been Graves.
Replying to Singn: Agreed. I had some questions at the time about Leetch's suitability as captain as well, but none of them had a thing to do with fisticuffs. There's a reason we all like to yell "Beuuuuuke!"
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
You might want to look at the rosters of those teams. That might tell a bigger story of what hurt the Rangers when Leetch was captain.
Leetch is a notch?? What in looks?? Lidstrom is top 5 easily..leetch is 17 according to one online review...thats.not a notch
Agreed. But is the difference between players of those better teams and leetch a plus minus 25 and 350ish..um no. I think defensively he wasn't that good IMHO.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
They went a long way to, yes. You put Leetch on the Avs or Wings or even the Devils and his +/- looks vastly different.
Am sure he said a lot of things. I was more replying on the poster who is judging Leetch by things that other coaches said about other players in different eras
Leetch didn't seem to have any trouble when he Captained Team USA to World Cup Gold against Canada. A Tournament in which he played fantastically.
Anyone who says Leetch wasn't good defensively has zero credibility. As stated before, Coffey was inferior to Leetch defensively (I won't say "terrible" but average at best) and he retired +298. So yeah, it makes a HUGE difference what team you play for.
And it's not like Leetch played on 1 or 2 bad teams. He spent the last 8 seasons of his career playing on putrid squads, aside from the brief stint in Toronto where he was +11 in 15 games.
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