Tkachuk Norris
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2012
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As bad as a GM as he’s been over the past decade, the guy would be great for TV
I think Burke is a good leader and a smart man, I think he also commands respect from his peers. He should definitely go into the HHOF. I think he was also the key force behind turning the Flames around from the turmoil we were in. But the team was never made the way he had envisioned, so I’m not sure what his role really was the last couple of years. Anyways I wish Burke well with his family in the future.
Before D. Sutter was fired, there was lots of turmoil. Multiple articles suggested there was a dark cloud that loomed over the Flames and Darryl and his own brother, the head coach reportedly never talked.
Then Feaster came into power, on an interm basis initially, made lots of controversial quotes, multiple controversial trades and made a hugely controversial decision in signing ROR, which potentially likely would have ended in catastrophe. Despite anyone saying the league would have sided with the Flames, there is zero evidence to support such a claim. In fact all the league has ever been on record of saying was that the Flames never called the league office.
Burke, who was immensely respected in the hockey world gave instant credibility back to the Flames. Quite frankly I think that was his greatest contribution along with hiring Treliving.
The league perception of the Flames was that the team was in turmoil, which is why Feaster was fired. These are all facts.
Meh. As much notoriety as there was with Feaster, there was with Burke, too. Burke has a lot of detractors around the league, it's not some big love in. The process of turning around the organization spanned both of those men's tenures with the Flames, and more of the positive influential player moves happened with Feaster than did with Burke. A lot of what you're talking about is just pure optics, and optics don't have that significant a bearing on reality. The Bruins were a team in turmoil when they hired Sweeney and he traded away Dougie Hamilton, for instance.
The big positive change was the restructuring of the front office that happened with the Burke hiring.
I don’t deny that Feaster made positive moves in his time here, but it’s misleading to suggest public perception of your franchise in the NHL isn’t of vital importance. Having competent ownership and management is crucial for long term success.
Being a head scout is like being a baseball player. Even the best ones will have high failure rates. It's hard to judge a head scout given every head scout has a couple of these instances happen every year where they pick a bust and a star is picked soon after.
You're right that the GM usually is close to blameless for drafts, but at the same time, it's hard to ignore the distinct Brian Burke flavour to some of those picks. Is it a coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe the GM gives the scouts instructions on how to weight different parts of players' games.
Yeah honestly I wouldn’t be sad to see Todd Button fired. He’s had way to many misses and overall our track record isn’t very good. The Flames do better drafting in later rounds it seems. Any 1st round picks we’ve made from 13 - 30th, 80% of the time is usually a miss. That is why this team has so many holes. Imagine how our roster would look if Sven, Poirier and Klimchuk had all panned out and were impact players for us. Guys would be slotted correctly and we probably would have been a contender like the Jets this year.
Part of the problem is our development for sure but it’s a major issue and really the biggest crutch this franchise has. Always having to turn to the FA well is how we landed in the Raymond and Brouwer situations.
I honestly think a huge part of why we never develop anyone is because they are never given the opportunity to take the ball and run with it.
I look at a guy like Jake Debrusk and who had a worse draft +1 and draft +2 then Poirier and started his draft +3 in the NHL. He looks to be a 2nd line player. Maybe with more than a 6 game stint to prove himself Poirier could've been a gritty third liner.
Maybe Klimchuk has the potential to be a cheap Frolik but it's not like we'll ever know seeing as he's played about 8 NHL minutes in his draft + 5 despite being a useful and responsible player in the AHL.
Even Mangiapane who actually did tear up the AHL got a 10 game stint the majority of which he spent glued to Stajan. FFS Gaudreau didn't produce when he was double shifted on Stajans line. The Flames constantly set their young guys up for failure then blame it on them.
Look at the random finds the contenders have from guys who never had a precedence of being as good as they have been in the NHL.
Bryan Rust
Best college season was 33 points in 40 games and he was a 0.4-0.5 point per game AHLer for two years. Gets brought up and brings a slightly higher level of production in the NHL.
Jake Guentzel
A prospect who had a solid college career rips up the AHL (with a slightly higher points/game then Mangiapane) they bring him up and he looks to be a 50-60 point winger who has great chemistry with Sid and steps up come playoff time.
I'll update with more examples later but I think you get the point.
How many of them have actually been given a spot on an NHL team? I'm not talking about the Sutter days when we drafted grinders. I'm talking about our recent non awful picks.If that is true, shouldnt we see former Flames draft picks flourishing around the league?
How many of them were actually good enough to do so in the first place?How many of them have actually been given a spot on an NHL team? I'm not talking about the Sutter days when we drafted grinders. I'm talking about our recent non awful picks.
I'd say Baertschi fits this too and he just put up 29 points in 53 games.
I'm not sure because they've never been given an opportunity. Lots of young players around the league are playing decently in the AHL and doing even better in the NHL.How many of them were actually good enough to do so in the first place?
Yeah honestly I wouldn’t be sad to see Todd Button fired. He’s had way to many misses and overall our track record isn’t very good. The Flames do better drafting in later rounds it seems. Any 1st round picks we’ve made from 13 - 30th, 80% of the time is usually a miss. That is why this team has so many holes. Imagine how our roster would look if Sven, Poirier and Klimchuk had all panned out and were impact players for us. Guys would be slotted correctly and we probably would have been a contender like the Jets this year.
Part of the problem is our development for sure but it’s a major issue and really the biggest crutch this franchise has. Always having to turn to the FA well is how we landed in the Raymond and Brouwer situations.
So glad we snagged T spoon instead of gambling on Kucherov.I maybe see the point of this, except for the fact that the misses in the first round being mentioned involved a lot of GM override and development as mentioned. Feaster/Weisbrod and Sutter are the ones to blame there. Based on the interviews, the scouts just organize the list, sort it based on GM mandated criteria and the GMs generally draft in the first and second rounds based on the sorted lists. It's in the later rounds where the GMs may let the scouts do their own thing, but first round busts are usually on the GM if the pick is not a BPA. Smith, MacDonale and Kanzig also felt like reaches based on the mandate (likely Burke) at that time. I don't think that's a Button issue, that's a GM override or incorrect mandate issue (ie: Big and strong vs small and skilled).
If anything, there's a story where Button was excited about both Kucherov and Gaudreau and kept them off the ranking sheets to hide their interest. He was told Feaster would take one of the two in the later rounds as they couldn't afford to gamble on both. When Kucherov was taken after Wotherspoon, he had to sweat it out until they had a pick to nab Gaudreau.
However, I believe Treliving and Co have been more willing to let the scouts do their own thing in earlier rounds and has allowed the scouts to take some swings at the fences. Kylington is perhaps an example of this and Andersson was supposedly not high on a lot of other team's lists either.
So glad we snagged T spoon instead of gambling on Kucherov.
The decision making there seems so odd to me. You find these 2 guys who you think have star upside but aren't very likely to reach it (they both did). What did they see in Wotherspoon and Granlund for the matter that made them pick them? I hope they now realize star potential > safety especially on the 2nd day of the draft where in reality there are no safe picks.
I maybe see the point of this, except for the fact that the misses in the first round being mentioned involved a lot of GM override and development as mentioned. Feaster/Weisbrod and Sutter are the ones to blame there. Based on the interviews, the scouts just organize the list, sort it based on GM mandated criteria and the GMs generally draft in the first and second rounds based on the sorted lists. It's in the later rounds where the GMs may let the scouts do their own thing, but first round busts are usually on the GM if the pick is not a BPA. Smith, MacDonale and Kanzig also felt like reaches based on the mandate (likely Burke) at that time. I don't think that's a Button issue, that's a GM override or incorrect mandate issue (ie: Big and strong vs small and skilled).
If anything, there's a story where Button was excited about both Kucherov and Gaudreau and kept them off the ranking sheets to hide their interest. He was told Feaster would take one of the two in the later rounds as they couldn't afford to gamble on both. When Kucherov was taken after Wotherspoon, he had to sweat it out until they had a pick to nab Gaudreau.
However, I believe Treliving and Co have been more willing to let the scouts do their own thing in earlier rounds and has allowed the scouts to take some swings at the fences. Kylington is perhaps an example of this and Andersson was supposedly not high on a lot of other team's lists either.