Cane mutiny
Ahoy_Aho
- Sep 5, 2006
- 1,951
- 1,876
CAR wants to KEEP Pesce for the exact same reasons as many TOR fans want to trade FOR him. Case closed. I think all the Nylander/Pesce threads will remain just empty talk.
Wow, this thread has devolved into a pissing match between a couple of wanna be English professors.
Not your typical colloquial discussion for a hockey forum.....see what I did there?
Anyway, Canes aren't trading Pesce for an unsigned Willie. The offer is Faulk and a pick/prospect.
You keep saying keeping nylander + getting player "similar to" Pesce is better, when you dont even have the cap space to sign Nylander, you wont have cap space to acquire upgrade at defence, do you understand that simple thing?
Besides that, the reported ask for Nylander is half of Pesce's, with your logic you should compare having Nylander to Pesce + around 4m for another asset.
You keep talking but you still havent shown any knowledge of the situation, even though you admit you do.
You realize no one was talking about Pesce because he plays in Carolina right? Sure, he's being talked about now because of the Nylander holdout, but that has absolutely nothing to do with his ability.
Besides, Nylander is reliant on Matthews and two thirds of his points at even strength came with Matthews. Now Kapanen is playing at a PPG pace and about to pass his season high of 9 on 38 from last season IN TEN GAMES because he's playing with Matthews.
We'll keep our stud of a RD that we can slot in anywhere in the lineup on a steal of a contract as opposed to a winger/fringe center who's throwing away his season by holding out for a big payday.
Do you realize that most of the speculation by Leafs fans here are as a result of the speculation as to what piece Carolina might offer for Nylander from reports that Carolina has called Toronto repeatedly about Nylander? Note...Carolina calling Toronto about Nylander, NOT, Toronto calling Carolina about Pesce or about the availability of Nylander. It's a small distinction that seems to be completely ignored by Canes fans, but...that's the report.
As to no one talking about Pesce because he's Carolina...So Sebastian Aho, Teuvo Teravainen, Justin Faulk, all unknown quantities because they play in Carolina? I'm sure many in Toronto feel similarly about Travis Dermott as some appear to feel in Carolina about Brett Pesce. But playing in Carolina has nothing to do with the lack of respect toward Pesce some feel is being thrown his way and more to do with the timing of a player coming into his own. But let me guess...As a Canes fan you're entirely aware of Dermott's rising value?
If not it means you're not a real hockey fan and shouldn't provide an opinion in deals where Dermott is offered for Aho.
Zach Hyman also played with Auston Matthews and didn't turn into a point per game player. William Nylander's Leafs numbers look an awful lot like the numbers he puts up without Auston Matthews. Kasperi Kapanen is a good player and he's benefiting - albeit from a small sample size - from playing on Matthews line. It's no secret that coaches put good players with good players and together they produce more than less talented players. It doesn't fit your preferred narrative of comparing Kapanen's fourth line production vs his time with Matthews, nor does it demonstrate a familiarity with Kapanen's development and similar production at every level he's played.
Keep your "stud of a RD"...I haven't come calling for him and neither has our GM. Understand? Apparently...Carolina came calling on Nylander. Dubas didn't come calling on Pesce. Let...that...sink...in.
Its pretty obvious Faulk was offered. Dubas Kicked tires on Faulk in the past.You missed my point completely. You have no idea what was even offered. Dubas could be pushing for Pesce for an unsigned Nylander for all we know, don't act like you're an insider.
What does Dermott have to do with this? Let him play for a year before you boast about his skyrocketing value.
Hyman didn't get PP looks like Nylander, so that's not a good comparable and also proves my point because like Willie, two thirds of his ES points came with Matthews.
But playing in Carolina has nothing to do with the lack of respect toward Pesce some feel is being thrown his way and more to do with the timing of a player coming into his own. But let me guess...As a Canes fan you're entirely aware of Dermott's rising value?
Pesce has played in the NHL since 2015. This is his 4th season as a pro. He's been great since he first started, and became noticed Leaguewide in 2016. His placement on the NHL career track isn't comparable to Dermott, a 2nd year pro with 45 games to his name, at present.
Are you sure most fanbases would agree with you? I'd bet that 80% of fanbases on this site have the answer of "Yeah Ive kind of heard of him" when asked about Pesce...
You missed my point completely. You have no idea what was even offered. Dubas could be pushing for Pesce for an unsigned Nylander for all we know, don't act like you're an insider.
What does Dermott have to do with this? Let him play for a year before you boast about his skyrocketing value.
Hyman didn't get PP looks like Nylander, so that's not a good comparable and also proves my point because like Willie, two thirds of his ES points came with Matthews.
Are you sure most fanbases would agree with you? I'd bet that 80% of fanbases on this site have the answer of "Yeah Ive kind of heard of him" when asked about Pesce...
Pesce has played in the NHL since 2015. This is his 4th season as a pro. He's been great since he first started, and became noticed Leaguewide in 2016. His placement on the NHL career track isn't comparable to Dermott, a 2nd year pro with 45 games to his name, at present.
Well, Pot...Dermott, from the OHL, to the AHL to the NHL has looked fantastic. Toronto fans come in all shapes and sizes with degrees of hockey knowledge to match but they are a vigilante bunch in aggregating their experience and interests and sharing them. Brett Pesce has never come up, until this predicament, in any meaningful way, other than as a good supplemental addition. The STAR you're representing he is, is a complete unknown to me. And judging from the passerby, from more fans than you're perhaps willing to believe don't likewise share your familiarity and enthusiasm for Brett Pesce.
You know, I think I mentioned Brett Pesce last season, in the same light as Justin Braun. No intended slight...I suppose, anymore than you're apparent lack of familiarity with Travis Dermott intends to offend. While a quick hockeydb or elite prospects search could provide enough information to pass off an informed opinion, I at least sought clarification from a source that could account for the eye-test on Pesce. You obviously haven't been watching Travis Dermott play to determine he's less than Brett Pesce in terms of career trajectory...at a position notorious for plodding development.
As to no one talking about Pesce because he's Carolina...So Sebastian Aho, Teuvo Teravainen, Justin Faulk, all unknown quantities because they play in Carolina? I'm sure many in Toronto feel similarly about Travis Dermott as some appear to feel in Carolina about Brett Pesce. But playing in Carolina has nothing to do with the lack of respect toward Pesce some feel is being thrown his way and more to do with the timing of a player coming into his own. But let me guess...As a Canes fan you're entirely aware of Dermott's rising value?
Imagine that. People getting upset in a Brett Pesce thread because Canes fans say thanks but no thanks to your overwhelming gracious offer of holdout Nylander for Pesce+.
Shocked I says... Shocked!
Right, you know because we are totally flooding this Nylander thread about Pesce...Not really what I am reading, the bias is your post is clear.
Trading a defensive defenceman for a high skilled winger is probably one of the most difficult trades there is in terms of appropriating value. If Pesce has 45-50 point skill on display, it's an easy debate. If Nylander signed a fair/disocunt offer, it also swings the other direction. As things stand now, it's almost impossible to be wrong or right.
Personally, I feel like we need Pesce badly, but trading Nylander for him a not a good philosophy. I don't think we replace Nylander easily, but I do think we can find a lesser version of Pesce for considerably cheaper, or we can find a more offensively gifted Pesce if we want to swing for the fences.
I don't blame Carolina fans for not wanting to move him, but you paint a one sided picture...
Right, you know because we are totally flooding this Nylander thread about Pesce...
What number is he going to wear?
Zeitsev already has 22
Possibly 55?
Zaitsev will be going back the other way not to worry.
Nylander and zaitsev for pesce + lotto protected 1st.
What do you think carolina was scouting at toronto game?
Zaitsev will be going back the other way not to worry.
Nylander and zaitsev for pesce + lotto protected 1st.
What do you think carolina was scouting at toronto game?
MY repeated preference is keeping Nylander and not trading for Pesce with Nylander. Meaning, I'd prefer to find an alternative similar (albeit lesser) version of our need without having to move Nylander in a situation of duress to do so.
Are you sure most fanbases would agree with you? I'd bet that 80% of fanbases on this site have the answer of "Yeah Ive kind of heard of him" when asked about Pesce...
Not really what I am reading, the bias is your post is clear.
Trading a defensive defenceman for a high skilled winger is probably one of the most difficult trades there is in terms of appropriating value. If Pesce has 45-50 point skill on display, it's an easy debate. If Nylander signed a fair/disocunt offer, it also swings the other direction. As things stand now, it's almost impossible to be wrong or right.
Personally, I feel like we need Pesce badly, but trading Nylander for him a not a good philosophy. I don't think we replace Nylander easily, but I do think we can find a lesser version of Pesce for considerably cheaper, or we can find a more offensively gifted Pesce if we want to swing for the fences.
I don't blame Carolina fans for not wanting to move him, but you paint a one sided picture...