Brett Hull: Why did he retire so suddenly in 2005?

[Jets4Life]

I was always perplexed as to why Brett Hull signed for the Phoenix Coyotes after the lockout, played for five games, then abruptly retired, after his dad Bobby Hull was inducted into the Coyotes "Ring of Honor" for his time in the organization, when the franchise was in Winnipeg. Did Hull just not feel he could compete, or was it self-serving (publicity for his father's inclusion into the Phoenix ring of honor)?

It also is weird that at the exact same time as Hull retired, Gretzky went behind the bench, and started coaching. I just find it odd that he would not have retired during the lockout, or right before, so he could have a decent send off.

Would anyone know if there is more to this story?

 

[Franck]

He couldn't keep up with the pace of the game after the lockout.

 

[rt]

He signed with them before the lock out. During the lock out he got old, fat, and out of shape. It was more than apparent very early in the season that he was a complete liability. Not even close to an NHL player. Steve Yzerman could lace them up tonight and look twice as good.

 

[Passchendaele]

He wasn't getting the ice time he wanted.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

as i recall, he was awful and said it was embarrassing to be out there on the ice like that.

 

[Jets4Life]

He signed with them before the lock out. During the lock out he got old, fat, and out of shape. It was more than apparent very early in the season that he was a complete liability. Not even close to an NHL player. Steve Yzerman could lace them up tonight and look twice as good.

Weird. Same thing happened with Keith Tkachuk, and IIRC St.Louis benched him for a few games for conditioning. I just found it weird that as the player with the 3rd most goals in the history of the NHL, there was so little fanfare made of the announcement, compared to players like Selanne, Modano, Sundin, etc.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Brett wasn't in the best shape in 05, and definitely didn't have the immediate success he wanted.

Hull remains, generally, one of the most underappreciated players of his generation. Although players of different styles, his successes and career are largely overshadowed by a decade of remembering what #99 + #66 did.

 

[Ishdul]

Of note is that they un-retired Bobby Hull's number to give it to Brett and made something of a big deal of it.

Weird. Same thing happened with Keith Tkachuk, and IIRC St.Louis benched him for a few games for conditioning. I just found it weird that as the player with the 3rd most goals in the history of the NHL, there was so little fanfare made of the announcement, compared to players like Selanne, Modano, Sundin, etc.

Well in season announcements work like that, and I think in general the retirements mean more when they're known well ahead of time instead of after the fact. Lemieux retired during the season as well and got a lot less fanfare than you'd otherwise expect. It's also Hull on the Coyotes, not the Blues or Stars or even Wings, and 5 games into the season when the NHL returned and there were a ton of stories to focus on. You mentioned Modano and I think his last season with Detroit did not sit well with a lot of people.

 

[Skobel24]

because by that time, he sucked.

 

[Big Phil]

Dave Andreychuk did much of the same thing. Although he played part of the season at least. Hull is around the same age, as is he around Lemieux's age. All three quit during the 2005-'06 season. They were all 40+ years old. I don't think you can underestimate just how hard it is on someone that age to take a year and a half off of NHL hockey (thanks to the lockout) and come back. You aren't 25 anymore. Mario did NOT look even near the same as he did in, say, the 2004 World Cup.

Hull had 1 assist in 5 games and was a -3. I get the feeling that Gretzky being there was a contributing factor. But if you just don't have the legs anymore................

Besides, there were players in their 30s who were just never the same after the lockout that couldn't get back to their old level. It's hard.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Even before the lockout, Hull's game began to fall off in 2003-04. His season totals look respectable, but I seem to remember him scoring most of those 25 goals in the first half of the year, and really struggling through the rest.

 

[danincanada]

Even before the lockout, Hull's game began to fall off in 2003-04. His season totals look respectable, but I seem to remember him scoring most of those 25 goals in the first half of the year, and really struggling through the rest.

That's what I remember as well. He looked really slow and out of shape down the stretch and especially in the playoffs in '03-04. I seem to recall him really dragging down his line mates, which I think were usually Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I doubt I caught any of his post lockout games with the Coyotes but I can imagine it wasn't pretty.

 

[Voight]

Its possible he thought his friend Gretzky would give him a lot more ice time than he got.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Its possible he thought his friend Gretzky would give him a lot more ice time than he got.

Brett would be the first to tell you that he didn't deserve that ice time. (And were he and Gretzky particularly close?)

This is from the article wikipedia cites on Hull's retirement

Feeling he could no longer play at the level he expected from himself, the 41-year-old Phoenix Coyotes right-winger announced his retirement Saturday prior to the club's home game against the Detroit Red Wings.

"I am very proud of what I have accomplished in my career, but at 41, I felt that it was time to move on," Hull said at a press conference. "I love the game of hockey and I appreciate everything the game has given to me and my family."

"I had so much fun coming to the rink day after day," said Hull, his voice choking with emotion.

"I wish no one had to do this because it's so hard, it's hard because you never think you're going to grow older and be unable to live up to the expectations you set for yourself. I just thank everyone who ever touched my life in the game."

The third all-time scorer in NHL history, Hull first discussed retiring with Coyotes head coach Wayne Gretzky and GM Mike Barnett after Thursday night's 5-4 loss to the Nashville Predators.

With one assist in five games this season, Hull decided that enough was enough and told Barnett and Gretzky Saturday morning that he wanted to walk away from the game.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/brett-hull-announces-his-retirement-1.519349

 

[Big Phil]

Brett would be the first to tell you that he didn't deserve that ice time. (And were he and Gretzky particularly close?)

I believe they were from their St. Louis days together, albeit briefly. But either way, Hull didn't want any favours.

Remember, he did not have a good tournament in the 2004 World Cup either. He is 40 years old at this time. Quite frankly I was surprised he made the team.

 

[Jets4Life]

Dave Andreychuk did much of the same thing. Although he played part of the season at least. Hull is around the same age, as is he around Lemieux's age. All three quit during the 2005-'06 season. They were all 40+ years old. I don't think you can underestimate just how hard it is on someone that age to take a year and a half off of NHL hockey (thanks to the lockout) and come back.

Teemu Selanne did it at 35 and came back a better player. However, Teemu is the exception. He finally had time for his knee surgery, and since he was one of the most disciplined players in the NHL, in terms of training, he came back with a vengeance, scoring 40 goals in the next 2 seasons.

Then again, Teemu was quoted back in his first NHL season saying he could not believe how soft, and in some cases, out of shape some NHLers were. Keep in mind Teemu did a stint in the Finnish army. On of the reasons, it took virtually no time for him to adapt to the North American game, and score 76 goals.

Back on topic, I heard that Brett Hull's conditioning problems are the reason he was shipped out of Calgary in 1988.

 

[The Panther]

Then again, Teemu was quoted back in his first NHL season saying he could not believe how soft, and in some cases, out of shape some NHLers were. Keep in mind Teemu did a stint in the Finnish army.

That's interesting. Maybe military training is what some NHL-ers needed. It seems to have been around this time -- early 90s -- when serious conditioning became the norm rather than the exception in NHL hockey.

Back on topic, I heard that Brett Hull's conditioning problems are the reason he was shipped out of Calgary in 1988.

That's quite possible, but I think it was mainly a case of The Flames being overly stacked with talented forwards, and Fletcher thinking the return value for Hull would be high.

 

[feffan]

Even before the lockout, Hull's game began to fall off in 2003-04. His season totals look respectable, but I seem to remember him scoring most of those 25 goals in the first half of the year, and really struggling through the rest.

That's what I remember as well. He looked really slow and out of shape down the stretch and especially in the playoffs in '03-04. I seem to recall him really dragging down his line mates, which I think were usually Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I doubt I caught any of his post lockout games with the Coyotes but I can imagine it wasn't pretty.

You remember right. He actually scored 9 of those goals in the month of november. And by the end of that month he had scored 12 in 24 games. He then scored 13 goals during his last 56 games that season. From december and in to april.

That said he threw december was a PPG, as he still racked up assists. Had 39 points in 39 games by the end of the year. Then 29 points in his last 42 games. Not baaaad, but with a player held as high as Hull, one is gonna wonder why he stopped scoring those goals...

And of course 2 goals, 3 assist for 5 points in 12 PO-games that year. As he the year before ha 1 assist in 4 games, that is 6 points in his last 16 PO-games. Even if it´s not always the truth that a player is over when he stops producing come spring, but I often get "worried" when an old player stop producing in the playoffs. It´s usually more telling than the regular season (with no real evidence to back that statement up, besides memory... and that can be tricky to use ). Especially if it´s a player like Hull, who is a proven PO-performer - to say the least. A lot more worried than if a young player doesn´t.

Don´t remember how long the Two Kids and an Old Goat Line was together. First it was Hull/Datsuyk with Deveraux in 01/02 and then during the next season Zetterberg took Boyds place. They where great for a time there. And Hull seemed to love it almost as much as his dad when Hedberg/Nilsson arrived in Winnipeg.

 

[kmad]

Besides, there were players in their 30s who were just never the same after the lockout that couldn't get back to their old level. It's hard.

The majority of those players were the classic clutch and grab behemoths like Derian Hatcher and Mike Rathje. You would think that a guy like Brett Hull would stand to flourish with less obstruction.

Or maybe it's that Hull's natural talent for avoiding obstruction was rendered useless.

 

[Voight]

I believe they were from their St. Louis days together, albeit briefly. But either way, Hull didn't want any favours.

Remember, he did not have a good tournament in the 2004 World Cup either. He is 40 years old at this time. Quite frankly I was surprised he made the team.

I think it was a lifetime achievement award kind of thing lol, more of a "thanks for choosing us over Canada" type of thing. But then again he had 68 points the season before so he was somewhat still useful.

Plus, maybe some American hockey fans can help me out with this, but I'm not sure who else they would've put.

Roenick was less productive than him that year, Deadmarsh retired, Mike York was another option, and Rolston/LeClair were still reasonably productive.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Hull was never fast to begin with.. a year off at 40 and he was no longer able to get it done at all.

Good on him realizing it quickly and getting out of there.

 

[MS]

The majority of those players were the classic clutch and grab behemoths like Derian Hatcher and Mike Rathje. You would think that a guy like Brett Hull would stand to flourish with less obstruction.

Or maybe it's that Hull's natural talent for avoiding obstruction was rendered useless.

Hull was 41 and hadn't played in a year, and had never been the best at keeping fit to begin with.

One of those 5 games was against the Canucks and I remember him just looking awful, completely done.

 

[Big Phil]

I think it was a lifetime achievement award kind of thing lol, more of a "thanks for choosing us over Canada" type of thing. But then again he had 68 points the season before so he was somewhat still useful.

Plus, maybe some American hockey fans can help me out with this, but I'm not sure who else they would've put.

Roenick was less productive than him that year, Deadmarsh retired, Mike York was another option, and Rolston/LeClair were still reasonably productive.

Fair points. Yeah, by 2004 that American core from 1996 was older and there was a big gap of lack of American talent in those years. They've got some new talent now, but not quite at the level of the 1996 core.

The majority of those players were the classic clutch and grab behemoths like Derian Hatcher and Mike Rathje. You would think that a guy like Brett Hull would stand to flourish with less obstruction.

Or maybe it's that Hull's natural talent for avoiding obstruction was rendered useless.

But you have to remember, the average age in the NHL is, what, 25 or 26 years old traditionally? Hull was 40 years old. I don't think we can underrate how hard it is for a 40 year old to go against 25 year olds. Even Sundin dropped a bit with the year off. Tkachuk certainly did. Modano is another one. Naslund of course. Most 30-somethings were hurt from that year off. A year off when you are 21 is different. You haven't even hit your prime. A year off when you are 33............it won't help.

Teemu Selanne did it at 35 and came back a better player. However, Teemu is the exception. He finally had time for his knee surgery, and since he was one of the most disciplined players in the NHL, in terms of training, he came back with a vengeance, scoring 40 goals in the next 2 seasons.

Yes, he is the exception. A rare one.

 

[Voight]

Fair points. Yeah, by 2004 that American core from 1996 was older and there was a big gap of lack of American talent in those years. They've got some new talent now, but not quite at the level of the 1996 core.

Yes, he is the exception. A rare one.

Definitely. From about 2004 to 2010 there was a gap in American star power, since then you have the likes of Kessel, Kane, Pavelski, Kesler, Backes, McDonagh, Quick, JVR, Carlson, Parise, Suter, Faulk etc. Plus now with the "new gen" with the likes of Eichel, Auston Matthews, Gaudreau, Trouba, Gibson, Galchenyuk, Bjugstad, Jones, Kreider etc. They will be OK for the next 10-15 years.

Teemu is an all-time exception.

His stats in his healthy seasons since the lockout are pretty solid.

2006 - 90
2007 - 94
2011 - 80
2012 - 66
2013 - 24 (in 46 GP)
2014 - 27

It was only his last two seasons that he really started to decline, very reasonable considering he was 43-44 during that time.

 

[Stephen]

Was pretty out of shape by this point.