The trade was pretty horrible, but in the end McDonagh is off the books and he is no where near the player he was then, at this moment in time. I still believe in Hajek though if he can just stay healthy. Imagine if we were stuck with Staal and McDonagh too?
Player Discussion Brett Howden
- Thread starter bl02
- Start date
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
Howden has been extremely MEH. He has regressed in a lot of areas. I doubt any team would claim him.
It would be one thing if he was dominant on face-offs as a 4th line center, allowing a little more trust from DQ on defensive zone draws. But after 127 NHL games (geeze, it's been that many!?) and despite 54% of his zone starts in the D zone (up from last year), he has been a career 48%. That was an area I was really hoping for an improvement in.
This is a big deal for a team building towards the playoffs and something that hasn't been addressed for a decade. You need a 4th line center who is in the green at the very least, especially on a team that has this type of history!
Rangers Team Faceoff %
19/20 - 46.5% - 30th in league
18/19 - 46.8% - 31st in league
17/18 - 46.8% - 30th in league
16/17 - 47.9% - 31st in league
15/16 - 48.2% - 30th in league
14/15 - 47.9% - 30th in league
13/14 - 48.0% - 30th in league
A reminder that there are only 31 teams in the NHL. This is God awful. And it doesn't end there. You can go back even more years.
To me, that is one of the biggest issues with playing a guy who doesn't provide much. Overall his defense has improved a bit if you look at his xGA stat, but his xGF stat has dropped like a rock. He hasn't shot the puck nearly as much as last season and if he's not producing offensively and not winning faceoffs he's pretty much useless other than being a sacrificial puck absorber on the PK.
The jury will be out on him next year for certain, if it isn't already. He will have more competition in camp from guys like Barron who I could see be given a shot in his spot. I did some digging and Barron has a career 55% FO. Hopefully that translates to the NHL, if he makes it.
As a center myself who loves the art of the draw this is something I have kept a close eye on with this team for YEARS. Huge problem that they haven't addressed. Someone needs to be able to win some f***ing face-offs consistently on this team and ideally it would be someone on a checking line.
SA16
Sixstring
The Rangers haven't been bad at faceoffs because of their 4th line centers. They have been bad at faceoffs because their top guys who take the majority of them were really bad. Specifically Hayes, Stepan, Brassard, Chytil and Strome. Howden is actually one of the better faceoff men they have had over the past years.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
SA16
Sixstring
Never said it was. Tells you how bad all the other guys have been that his 48% is among the best.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
Agree its been a widespread problem with all of their centers, going back years. The law of averages suggest they'll get a decent faceoff man sooner or later... right?!
Ideally it would be someone with a lot of defensive zone starts
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,356
It wasn't always like this.
99/00 - 53.1% - 3rd in the league
00/01 - 51.2% - 8th in the league
01/02 - 50.7% - 12th in the league
02/03 - 53.3% - 3rd in the league
03/04 - 51.4% - 8th in the league
What I wouldn't give to go back to those glory days!
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
- 9,908
- 8,551
I'll go over this again, as I have done in the past. Faceoff percentage does not matter in the grand scheme of things. The impact is barely felt over the course of a game. Winning faceoffs impacts the play for about 2-3 seconds and then it is essentially eliminated by whatever happens after. It's overblown by every announcer and analyst on TV about how important they are.
The Rangers average 55 faceoffs in a game this season. Even if they are 45%, that means they are winning roughly 26 per game and losing 29. Is flipping two faceoffs per game going to do anything for this team? It's not like their 35% on draws.
I'll take good players over guys that can win faceoffs. It really helps at the end of a game, but if you could ice a better team and lose more faceoffs, the likelyhood of being down late decreases and there are so many more important things.
The Rangers average 55 faceoffs in a game this season. Even if they are 45%, that means they are winning roughly 26 per game and losing 29. Is flipping two faceoffs per game going to do anything for this team? It's not like their 35% on draws.
I'll take good players over guys that can win faceoffs. It really helps at the end of a game, but if you could ice a better team and lose more faceoffs, the likelyhood of being down late decreases and there are so many more important things.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,356
There's a reason why faceoff percentage has a negative correlation with winning. The sacrifices teams are willing to make to get that extra 1 out of 20 faceoffs.
TheGortonConspiracy
Wow its a nice GM
A great play by Howden last night. He’s a difficult player to evaluate. He’s gotten a lot of shit in the past, from myself included. Reminds me of Jesper Fast, another player that early on was difficult to evaluate.
jgimp
Registered User
I agree to a point but eventually, lost faceoffs tend to catch up. Offensive and neutral zone faceoffs have a less negative impact, meaning if you lose that faceoff you have the ability to counter, but lose the faceoff in your own end and your always chasing.
When coaching, we spent a lot of time on faceoffs, figuring out who was stronger, on which sides, mechanics and such. We were lucky, my boy was excellent on faceoffs and he taught himself to flip his stick around based on which dot and if the opponent was left or right handed. It helped he was a man amongst boys but if you can control the faceoff you control puck time. That lost faceoff in your end will eventually end up in the net.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I think the point is that it's not important when most NHL players can win 45-55% of their faceoffs. Obviously, if an NHL player was 10% on faceoffs, then that'd be an issue.
Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
I will be the first to say I hated Howden as a player the last couple years. And despite being a fan of Quinn, I hated his supposed preferential treatment of him even more. Maybe he knew something we didn’t. Maybe not.
But, and I know it’s only one game, last night was a different story. Howden is probably our most improved player. He was great. It’s interesting, because even up to last night after the game, many Rangers fans were complaining about the ice time Howden was getting (mostly on Twitter). Rangers fans love to hate on the guy, but many hockey experts were high on Howden, including our very own @Edge, even after last season ended. Credit where credit is due. Hopefully Howden can be the solution to our center depth, although I’d still prefer Chytil due to his skill.
But, and I know it’s only one game, last night was a different story. Howden is probably our most improved player. He was great. It’s interesting, because even up to last night after the game, many Rangers fans were complaining about the ice time Howden was getting (mostly on Twitter). Rangers fans love to hate on the guy, but many hockey experts were high on Howden, including our very own @Edge, even after last season ended. Credit where credit is due. Hopefully Howden can be the solution to our center depth, although I’d still prefer Chytil due to his skill.
I think some of the criticisms of Howden last year were 100% fair and justified from the fanbase: he did not have a good year from either the eye test of analytics, and as you mentioned, he still seemed to get preferential treatment and opportunities.
The part I was/still am surprised about, was how many people were ready to give up on him and thought he couldn't become a solid NHLer. Former first rounder, a solid skater in a 6'3 frame, and is only 22 years old. He always seemed like the classic "needs time to fill out into his body" prospect, and I'm hoping this long time off has helped him start to turn that corner.
Again, just like all the negatives on the other side of things, it's only 1 game so far, so we'll see how he does over the course of the season. But a very promising first game from Howden.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Time will tell with Howden.
But the Carolina series, his camp and his first game more closely resemble the player I believed he could be coming out of juniors.
I really want him to become that player, because it would help the Rangers a fair amount and provide value.
So that’s what I am pulling for.
But the Carolina series, his camp and his first game more closely resemble the player I believed he could be coming out of juniors.
I really want him to become that player, because it would help the Rangers a fair amount and provide value.
So that’s what I am pulling for.
This makes me sad. Fast was such a stabilizing force in the room, the way he practiced, prepared for games, and played. Not giving him the 3rd year was really dumb IMO. But we have to hope the kids mature faster I guess
Captain Monglobster
Registered User
- Nov 9, 2005
- 1,913
- 1,289
The kid looks stronger especially along the boards. One of the bright spots so far.
if he played with grit and passion like last night, all the time, he would be a fan favorite. he gets hate because he was forced into the NHL lineup based on the trade. I bet if he played a full AHL season or even half of an AHL, he would have better stats in the NHL. I have bashed him but he seemed to improve this year. he looks a little better to me. I think he can be a 4th line key faceoff guy down the road with grit and playmaking ability. personally I thought he would have better goal scoring stats. I think Howden needs to work on his shot. he did score 24 and 38 goals in the WHL so he does have some ability. heck he was on the same team with Brandon Point but when Howden scored 38 the only other one who got more goals and points than him during that year was Dryden Hunt some minor league scrub with the Panthers.
He gets hate when he is miscast as a top 9 forward (its out of necessity right now), is allowed to basically get away with making a bevy of mistakes with out any criticism or reduction in ice time, and has a coach whose instinct when anything isn't going right is to "put Howden on it!"
Basically, It's on Quinn more than it is on him.
If he is used primarily as a 4th line forward with PK duties when everyone is healthy, I think the opinions on this player will be more positive.
Props to him for dropping the mitts. It didn't get the team going like some on twitter have proclaimed (NYR 2nd period was worse than their 1st) but at least he tried to do something to spark the squad.
Basically, It's on Quinn more than it is on him.
If he is used primarily as a 4th line forward with PK duties when everyone is healthy, I think the opinions on this player will be more positive.
Props to him for dropping the mitts. It didn't get the team going like some on twitter have proclaimed (NYR 2nd period was worse than their 1st) but at least he tried to do something to spark the squad.
Good job dropping the mitts their with Kapanen. He was another guy that was going for PIT, that was smart.
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
Not sure what helped more....the fight by Howden or the human missile Smith on Tanev.
Both were important. They adapted to what would help the team win. Tanev and Kapanen were shifting the pace the first fwe games. Tanev in particular, he's one of the better racehorses in the league. Smitty and Howden got real crafty out there and did what they had to do.
Kudos to Smitty, that's some good Mimico boy hockey, just went at the guy without a single regard for his body, and Tanev, he got the shoulder in there full force without cowering an inch at full speed. That was a remarkable play of wills among the two men. You have to shut your mind away from pain and consequence to not p***y out of that collison.
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