Bravo Allvin. The D is pretty much rebuilt.

Mancini is actually the dark horse in this conversation that I'm quite excited about, and I don't see too many others talking about him. I've been watching a bunch of footage of this kid. I think he's solid as hell, and I'm not going to be shocked if he plays for this team for a good long while. Might be the hidden gem of this trade as the years go by.
We know Frankie Corrado was really big on him (and I think Frank's insight is generally pretty great):



Darren Dreger had this to say:



And John Shannon was really high on him as well on S&P today.

There was also than in-game clip that circulated on Twitter where Ferraro was praising him.
 
i think the miraculous job allvin has done tells us something about talent level and expansion.

bitd, pre-san jose expansion, you could rebuild an entire d corps in one year. and it would just cost you draft picks and spare parts. you just had to find a team with too many dmen, because talent exceeded roster spots. in one year we got lumme, diduck, murzyn, and babych for a late 2nd, a 4th, and spare parts and goons. the only player of note we gave up was brian bradley, who was barely an NHLer before they added three new teams (and two more a year later) and we got him for goon craig coxe.

ditto burke’s core. ohlund was our guy, jovo was a marquee piece in a superstar trade. but you couldn’t get a salo now for a peter schaefer, say a hoglander. but ottawa had too many young dmen and he was expendable. ditto mccabe, who was part of a blockbuster, but after the trade the islanders still had kenny jonsson, rookie bryan berard, very raw and young chara, and aging out former top five pick scott lachance. and because of our abundance on the blueline, we likewise gave up aucoin for dan cloutier. so in the early days of the nashville/columbus wave of expansion, there were still more than enough guys to go around.

i won’t go through the gillis years but i feel like then we struggled just to have enough guys. ehrhoff was a gift but ballard cost us and hamhuis was a right place right time UFA.

but we effectively gave up a 1C and a high end 2C for hronek and mp3. direly needed and i think it goes to show that if you aren’t developing your own dmen, there aren’t enough out there to fill the gaps with.
 
i think the miraculous job allvin has done tells us something about talent level and expansion.

bitd, pre-san jose expansion, you could rebuild an entire d corps in one year. and it would just cost you draft picks and spare parts. you just had to find a team with too many dmen, because talent exceeded roster spots. in one year we got lumme, diduck, murzyn, and babych for a late 2nd, a 4th, and spare parts and goons. the only player of note we gave up was brian bradley, who was barely an NHLer before they added three new teams (and two more a year later) and we got him for goon craig coxe.

ditto burke’s core. ohlund was our guy, jovo was a marquee piece in a superstar trade. but you couldn’t get a salo now for a peter schaefer, say a hoglander. but ottawa had too many young dmen and he was expendable. ditto mccabe, who was part of a blockbuster, but after the trade the islanders still had kenny jonsson, rookie bryan berard, very raw and young chara, and aging out former top five pick scott lachance. and because of our abundance on the blueline, we likewise gave up aucoin for dan cloutier. so in the early days of the nashville/columbus wave of expansion, there were still more than enough guys to go around.

i won’t go through the gillis years but i feel like then we struggled just to have enough guys. ehrhoff was a gift but ballard cost us and hamhuis was a right place right time UFA.

but we effectively gave up a 1C and a high end 2C for hronek and mp3. direly needed and i think it goes to show that if you aren’t developing your own dmen, there aren’t enough out there to fill the gaps with.
Bro you need to stop with the mirculous job bullshit. The bald bros have achieved a 2nd round exit in 3 years here. Let's see what we do first before coming with this ridiculous analysis. The team lacks 2 quality top 6 players before it can do something and those players are hard to get. This good defence has not been seriously tested yet with the exception of the SJ tank squad and they had to be bailed out by Demko. Playing well for 4-5 games means nothing. Let's see how this new defence does over a season before more making such claims.
 
Damn totally forgot.

Erhoff-Edler
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Salo-Tanev/Ballard.

Then you even have Sedins, Kes, Burrows, Luongo.

Lets face it that lineup was deep and elite, no wonder they went far to the playoffs.

I remember all I bitched about was Tanner Glass. Too spoiled to even know it then.
Yep. Complaining about the 4LW when they had six top-4 defensemen, a HHOF goalie in his prime, and the franchise's all-time forward corps. Those were good times.
 
Yep. Complaining about the 4LW when they had six top-4 defensemen, a HHOF goalie in his prime, and the franchise's all-time forward corps. Those were good times.
Weren’t they #1 literally in every team stat? They were dominant.
 
Damn totally forgot.

Erhoff-Edler
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Salo-Tanev/Ballard.

Then you even have Sedins, Kes, Burrows, Luongo.

Lets face it that lineup was deep and elite, no wonder they went far to the playoffs.

I remember all I bitched about was Tanner Glass. Too spoiled to even know it then.

Glass and Aaron Rome. How little we knew...
 
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It’s looking top 3 in the entire league level good.

Quinn Hughes - Tom Willander
Elias Pettersson - Filip Hronek
Marcus Pettersson - Tyler Myers/Carson Soucy

That’s potentially 5 top pairing calibre dmen in 2 years. Then you still have
Victor Mancini - Sawyer Mynio - Kirill Kudryatsev
 
Bro you need to stop with the mirculous job bullshit. The bald bros have achieved a 2nd round exit in 3 years here. Let's see what we do first before coming with this ridiculous analysis. The team lacks 2 quality top 6 players before it can do something and those players are hard to get. This good defence has not been seriously tested yet with the exception of the SJ tank squad and they had to be bailed out by Demko. Playing well for 4-5 games means nothing. Let's see how this new defence does over a season before more making such claims.

“bro,” i’m not saying it’s a miracle because he’s assembled a top d corps. i mean, obviously it still has only three top four guys in it.

it’s a miracle because unless you develop them it’s damn near impossible to get them and he inherited a defence with exactly one real top four dman.

ie, the point of my post is in previous eras when there was more than enough talent to go around you could just go get a lumme or a diduck or a salo. now you have to pay f***ing horvat and jt miller. if they expand again, it’s going to get really ugly.
 
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I wonder if they try soucy with hughes and put hronek with him when desperate

Hughes-Soucy
Mp-myers
Forbert-hronek

Top 3 d or better on the ice at all times
 
I wonder if they try soucy with hughes and put hronek with him when desperate

Hughes-Soucy
Mp-myers
Forbert-hronek

Top 3 d or better on the ice at all times

But then putting Soucy with Hughes would limit Hronek's icetime. Anyways it's a great situation to have, this D-core is at its' best since the 2011 cup team.
 
Bro you need to stop with the mirculous job bullshit. The bald bros have achieved a 2nd round exit in 3 years here. Let's see what we do first before coming with this ridiculous analysis. The team lacks 2 quality top 6 players before it can do something and those players are hard to get. This good defence has not been seriously tested yet with the exception of the SJ tank squad and they had to be bailed out by Demko. Playing well for 4-5 games means nothing. Let's see how this new defence does over a season before more making such claims.

Definitely early but when you compare what they've done in three years to the catastrophe that was the Benning era...
 
I did not agree with this thread when it was made a year ago.

I do now.

Traded 2 1C's to do it, the price was very high, but unlike the Benning era where we also paid a lot to "fix" the d, this time the targets were actually legitimate top 4 dmen. And we have two dmen just starting their ELC's with at least top 4 ceilings banging on the door which is a massive deal for balancing the OEL penalty and the need to now pour cap and assets into the forwards to rebalance the lineup.
 
It’s looking top 3 in the entire league level good.

Quinn Hughes - Tom Willander
Elias Pettersson - Filip Hronek
Marcus Pettersson - Tyler Myers/Carson Soucy

That’s potentially 5 top pairing calibre dmen in 2 years. Then you still have
Victor Mancini - Sawyer Mynio - Kirill Kudryatsev
A Hughes / Willander pairing could give an opportunity for Hughes to get well over 100 points. Willander will be able to do puck retrieval and zone exits better than anyone else except Hughes, so Hughes will be able to cheat a lot more up ice.
 
i think the miraculous job allvin has done tells us something about talent level and expansion.

bitd, pre-san jose expansion, you could rebuild an entire d corps in one year. and it would just cost you draft picks and spare parts. you just had to find a team with too many dmen, because talent exceeded roster spots. in one year we got lumme, diduck, murzyn, and babych for a late 2nd, a 4th, and spare parts and goons. the only player of note we gave up was brian bradley, who was barely an NHLer before they added three new teams (and two more a year later) and we got him for goon craig coxe.

ditto burke’s core. ohlund was our guy, jovo was a marquee piece in a superstar trade. but you couldn’t get a salo now for a peter schaefer, say a hoglander. but ottawa had too many young dmen and he was expendable. ditto mccabe, who was part of a blockbuster, but after the trade the islanders still had kenny jonsson, rookie bryan berard, very raw and young chara, and aging out former top five pick scott lachance. and because of our abundance on the blueline, we likewise gave up aucoin for dan cloutier. so in the early days of the nashville/columbus wave of expansion, there were still more than enough guys to go around.

i won’t go through the gillis years but i feel like then we struggled just to have enough guys. ehrhoff was a gift but ballard cost us and hamhuis was a right place right time UFA.

but we effectively gave up a 1C and a high end 2C for hronek and mp3. direly needed and i think it goes to show that if you aren’t developing your own dmen, there aren’t enough out there to fill the gaps with.

i don't know if it's a function of true talent level and expansion specifically, but moreso that defensive players (and goalies, but that's a different topic) haven't kept up with the development of offensive players. this is not a ground breaking suggestion, and it might even be the causal explanation of statistically observable goal scoring increases since the dead puck era. obviously there was the offensive drop around the second cap era lockout with the jamie benn 87 point art ross year, but it's been a pure upward trend of offense since.

noted this in another thread, but the isles currently adding every available "marc-andre bergeron" type - tony d, perunovich, boqvist - in a couple week span is an interesting test of this premise. pp specialist zero defense offense creators had a legitimate role for a while, and were valued parts of a roster. that role has basically vanished as most teams have their top pairing d on the first unit powerplay and/or run a 4f1d set up. quick scan of the scoring leaders - looks like only jackson lacombe and ghost bear are guys leading their teams' defense in scoring while not essentially playing top pair minutes. but as the salaries for the do-it-all 70 point pp qb's go up (ie. noah dobson), is it actually worth putting those players in those positions in a league where offense is easier to come by? like, the much harder thing to find might be a ken danyeko like fridge that can hold a pk above 85% for a season.

to that point - the best pp unit between 93-94 and 03-04 was the 95-96 penguins at 26%. since 15-16, and not including this season, 14 teams have passed that mark, with the highest being last year's oilers at 32.4%.

meanwhile, between 93-94 and the first lockout, 96 teams had a pk% of 85% or better. in the last ten years, just 17.

there's another broader point about how there are seemingly fewer defensive-only stalwarts at forward - lehtninen, draper, maltby, malhotra types - and the selke doesn't help with that perception as it only goes to the best defensively of the barkov/kopitar/bergeron superstar tier players. ftr, auston matthews was third in selke voting last season lol. maybe that's totally erasing guys like danault, but he didn't even get a selke vote last year.

_______

all that to say, i'm pretty optimistic about the shift allvin has made to add defensively capable players on our defense. we have a 100-point+ defensive engine in hughes to build around. the offense should come. and you can always add a boqvist or brannstrom and they can play the role something like 60-75% of the way if given the right minutes. facing mcdavid, draisaitl, mackinnon, makar... you simply cannot count on a juulsen to provide 75% of a tanev or m-petey, ever.
 
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