Proposal: Brandon Saad to Tor similar to McCabe transaction
- Thread starter StlBigFly
- Start date
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
McCabe was a decent D on a really bad team. Saad is just not good anymore.
I’m not pumping saads tires persay but the team gave all of his icetime to Holloway, so it’s kinda…iffy to say he’s washed. The eye test passes imo. To my knowledge there is no injury history that is notable. He isn’t playing useless as much as Holloway is getting infinitely more opportunity in all areas of the game. And we have neighbors too who takes the other half of important minutes. Saad just kinda … gets his 4 shifts a period.
Blues gotta play the future but I think Saad can give 20-25 goals over 82 games if he’s used like he would be on a contending team that isn’t forcing youth up the depth chart. At least there is no glaring reason I know of that would stop him from being exactly who he has always been. He’d be worth more than 2.25 cap hit imo - extra especially if Toronto experienced injury at certain spots of the depth chart. I’m not trying to bash on him, but patches is good for about half a season for 5 years straight….and he’s 36…
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leafsfan5
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2014
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Jake McCabe was a top 4 defensemen dealt at an AAV of 2 million for multiple years
Saad has nowhere near that kind of value
Saad has nowhere near that kind of value
Jared Dunn
Registered User
Saad doesn't carry that value as others have mentioned and if the Leafs trade a 1st and don't end up with a good 3C they're nuts. Minten looks like a player but I still think that's the clear spot to upgrade
If Patches stays healthy and Jarnkrok gets healthy their left side is also fairly deep Knies, Pacioretty, Jarnkrok, McMann, Lorentz
If Patches stays healthy and Jarnkrok gets healthy their left side is also fairly deep Knies, Pacioretty, Jarnkrok, McMann, Lorentz
Agree kinda. When McCabe left Buffalo I do not recall the entire armchair gm group screaming look at this valuable top 4 defenseman trade. He’s serviceable.
But the deal sent a 1st and a 2nd
If I were stl I wouldn’t retain multiple seasons and move Toropchenko or similar for less than a late 1st equivalent. I’d just go get a 2nd or 3rd or 4th - whatever Saad commands alone and unretained and save the retention for my defense. Maybe there is better use of Toronto’s assets but I don’t know that they can find scoring on the left any cheaper. Hard to find somebody who is functional and also 2.25 aav.
Jared Dunn
Registered User
The deal was from Chicago so I think your memory might not be serving you on this one
Yeah….
That enormous hit he laid on Laine is burned into my brain. The broadcast call too…so perfect.
he will always be that hit to me.
Therefore sabre
But yeah mistype up there
PullHard
☂
- Jul 18, 2007
- 28,568
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The idea of including McMann and a 1st in a deal for Saad in 2024 (basically 2025) is fanciful
Maybe that’s not the right guy. I intended to find somebody with minimal to no value.
McMann is 28 and he hasn’t hit 100 games yet so if that’s like valuable skater then I guess I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Where I come from that’s 0 trade value skater. Worth his role and pay, but literally the easiest thing to replace and costs nothing to acquire.
It’s a guy who is in the nhl because the team spent its cap on other positions and can’t fill out its depth chart. That’s who Toronto would send to stl, whoever it is.
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LetsGoBooze
Let the re-tool breathe
- Jan 16, 2012
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As a StL fan, Saad aint fetching a 1st with his play this year. He would need to really turn things around for anything close to that.
Saad is a middle 6 winger now. So, not going to get a 1st for him unless a 2nd went the other way for example.
He drops from a full NTC to a MNTC to half the league in July.
He drops from a full NTC to a MNTC to half the league in July.
Saad would have to be heavily retained and cost no more then a second to aquire with said retention. The Leafs would also have to strike out on every top 9 center on the market first as well
I think if you're Toronto, you basically have "1 shot" to shoot with respect to adding a material forward. They are incredibly tight on both the cap, and with respect to roster space. Much has been made about the Leafs desire to add a #3 centre, if you do that; Marner, Nylander, Knies, McMann, Pacioretty and Domi likely become your top 9 wingers. I don't believe they're going to have the cap flexibility to add both a $2.25m Brandon Saad, and a ~$3m centre.
There's also not really a long list of assets that the Leafs would happily trade. I'd imagine their 1st round pick next year would be in play; but Fraser Minten & Easton Cowan -- really hesitant to make a move on.
Given that, I'd imagine that if the Leafs are "shooting their shot" by adding another winger, the desire would be to get somebody that is appreciably better than at least 1 of the 3 left wingers they currently have.... therefore I dont think the Leafs would trade their 1st for Saad.
That being said, maybe the Leafs do look at Saad and/or Toropchenko in the context of a "secondary" addition.
I'd imagine that the pieces the Leafs would want to put on the table are guys like Robertson, Kampf, and Holmberg (from an NHL standpoint), and lesser picks.
There's also not really a long list of assets that the Leafs would happily trade. I'd imagine their 1st round pick next year would be in play; but Fraser Minten & Easton Cowan -- really hesitant to make a move on.
Given that, I'd imagine that if the Leafs are "shooting their shot" by adding another winger, the desire would be to get somebody that is appreciably better than at least 1 of the 3 left wingers they currently have.... therefore I dont think the Leafs would trade their 1st for Saad.
That being said, maybe the Leafs do look at Saad and/or Toropchenko in the context of a "secondary" addition.
I'd imagine that the pieces the Leafs would want to put on the table are guys like Robertson, Kampf, and Holmberg (from an NHL standpoint), and lesser picks.
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
Could you even get Lafferty value for Saad at this point? Lafferty was playing far better hockey at time of trade than Saad is
McCabe with retention = 1st
Lafferty = 2nd
McCabe with retention = 1st
Lafferty = 2nd
Leafs fans are very high on Bobby McMann. He does a ton of heavy lifting on whatever line he's placed on; and puts up reasonable offensive numbers in doing so.
Probably wouldn't trade McMann for Saad 50% retained, simply because of the difference in salary.
BleedBlue14
UrGeNcY
I think a 3rd is a more reasonable expectation. I could see a 2nd as the return with some retention.
Saad reminds me alot of a Marcus Johansson in terms of trades and he has a pretty vast history of trades over the last 5 years or so to look at.
I would be perfectly happy with getting a 2nd either this year or next for the Blues to select a possible goalie for 5-7 years down the road.
Saad reminds me alot of a Marcus Johansson in terms of trades and he has a pretty vast history of trades over the last 5 years or so to look at.
I would be perfectly happy with getting a 2nd either this year or next for the Blues to select a possible goalie for 5-7 years down the road.
Doc300c
Registered User
Here is what we're looking at;
Knies - Matthews - Marner
Patches - Tavares - Nylander
McMann - Minten - Domi
Lorentz - Kanpf - Reaves
The only real spot we'd upgrade and have someone better coming in is Reaves or an upgrade on our prospect who's turning heads defensively as the 3rd line C in his first stint (excluding his 4 games last season )
First 2 lines shouldn't see much change if we are separating Top 6 players from Bottom 6 - there's no fit here for either of the STL players whom both have under 10 points this season.
McMann is our Patches insurance as far as I'm concerned - yes less then 100 games - yes doesn't have sustained experience.
I 100% am in the belief that McMann is going to be kept at all costs so the Leafs don't have another Marchment issue where the player looks to have been skipped over or cant keep up - then gets traded and breaks out because our system couldn't utilize his skillsets for him to breakout. He has the potential to provide what Patches does but faster and younger.
McMann also has 9 points in 10 less games - 1 point different from Saad for 1/3 the salary, faster, younger and already works great with Tavares if he needs to move up in the lineup
Robertson, Grebs, Holmberg, Cowan + waiting for a chance to fill a hole. These are players that can be used in different spots with different talents just waiting to get a chance.
If we are adding a forward it will be to remove Reaves, or it will be because Minten has started falling off on the offensive side. 4 points in 11 games at the moment.
I just don't see where Saad would fit - Maybe 4th line with Lorentz and Kampf - seems like a lot to give up for a 4th liner.
I'm assuming adding Toro is probably why there's a 1st and would be great to get in in the Domi spot for the future, but again, 1st round pick for a 3rd and 4th liners?
Only way I see it is if Toro was ripping it up this year and could make Patches a 3rd liner. The problem here is 5 points in 30 games will fit Toro in as a 4th liner for us - Lorentz has more goals and points.
So we're giving up a 1st for 2 guys that will be 4th liners.
I know it doesn't always work out to be like that and these players should be playing higher in the line up to contribute more but if they cant beat out the likes of Lorentz.....
Thanks for the insights.
I do have to say the cool benefit of McMann is that you can slide him up the lineup if you have to. I’m probably not giving him enough credit.
Torop is not like that. He can take a period in your top 9 or even top 6, but that’s about it. I don’t think he’s ever played a full game, maybe end of last season aside, in a role above 14 min a game or so, and it’s historically rare that we gave him even a single elevated shift.
He is really really useful in the 4th line role though - get on the ice, use all your energy and get off type of guy. Def a bonafide nhler in that sense.
I don’t think he has all that much trade value but I do feel Berube liked using him. When you all got Berube one of the first things I thought is wondering if Toropchenko would end up there one way or another. I get the impression Toropchenko has a pretty simple approach and Berube gives him simple things to do and it works.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
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The Leafs are still finding their way with the roster. It's fairly premature to decide who is a permanent fixture on the team, and who isn't. Minten has been ok as a 3C, was really good at first, and has faded some. It's speculative to suggest he'll stick. The third line has been a bit of a challenge, though last night, it was excellent against Buffalo.... disclaimers.. that's only one game, and it was Buffalo. The third line last night was Robertson, Domi and McCann.... Robertson has been dismal prior to this game, and Domi hasn't been much better..
Speculatively, the most likely need for the Leafs will be a 3C, as Minten might not be ready to take that role, and I don't have much faith that Domi will be any real answer there... If somehow Minten, or Domi take that role, and a 3C isn't needed... then we move on.
Then the most needed position, would be a RD partner for Rielly. Parayko retained probably fits the bill... but then, who would retain on Parayko for the length of his contract? He'd be a good fit though.
So... for now, a LW just isn't really a need... a want maybe, but there is time to sort things out, and the Leafs would be well advised not to make a major move until mid to late January, and let the situation as to what the main need really is.
