Proposal: Brandon Saad, Justin Faulk anyone?

[jjniner]

Schenn not speaking to the media after the win last night was not a good look, especially with the Kyrou issue at large. I’m hoping the locker room is not splintered.

 

[biturbo19]

I'd definitely have interest in Saad from a Canucks perspective. I'm not sure just how much i'd be willing to pay, and it'd probably have to incorporate some salary offsets to make it work. $4.5M isn't bad and i actually like that it's not a pure rental. It'd basically just give them the second Mikheyev type player to fill in 3rd wheel on either the Petey or JT Miller lines.


Schenn is the one i'd really want...but that becomes a much more complicated proposition.

 

[mkatcherin00]

I forget Saad is even in the league. never ever see him on tv, hear his name, read about him, etc

 

[BleedBlue14]

Schenn not speaking to the media after the win last night was not a good look, especially with the Kyrou issue at large. I’m hoping the locker room is not splintered.

Not sure it’s really relevant. The media generally asks for guys. They probably didn’t ask for Schenn since he had just spoken earlier in the day.

Kyrou obviously was of interest, Thomas was the player of the game. Can’t remember who the other one was to talk.

I'd definitely have interest in Saad from a Canucks perspective. I'm not sure just how much i'd be willing to pay, and it'd probably have to incorporate some salary offsets to make it work. $4.5M isn't bad and i actually like that it's not a pure rental. It'd basically just give them the second Mikheyev type player to fill in 3rd wheel on either the Petey or JT Miller lines.


Schenn is the one i'd really want...but that becomes a much more complicated proposition.

I think it’s pretty accepted that cap is going to have to be taken back.

What wouldn’t make sense is taking back more cap, or downgrading for a similar contrac. The issue we’re going to run in to is how do we get something useful back, and how are we going to get guys to waive NTCs to teams that are interested.

 

[Petes2424]

If they don’t turn things around, everything is likely on the table….. minus Thomas probably.

As teams call though, it’s probably more likely we see Parayko the first big ticket player to go elsewhere.

As for Saad, Armstrong will do right by him. He’ll send him somewhere Saad thinks he fits well, as long as the offers are similar.

Parayko is gonna be the big fish though.

 

[biturbo19]

I think it’s pretty accepted that cap is going to have to be taken back.

What wouldn’t make sense is taking back more cap, or downgrading for a similar contrac. The issue we’re going to run in to is how do we get something useful back, and how are we going to get guys to waive NTCs to teams that are interested.

Yeah. It's just a little convoluted with the Canucks and Saad...in that Garland would be the obvious salary offset going back. They're more or less the same $$$ and same term remaining.

Problem arises with...how much more does Vancouver add? There's a detachment there if St.Louis decide to start blowing things out the airlock. Realistically...Garland is a comparatively productive player, and he can arguably make more with less further down the lineup. He's younger too. So from a Vancouver perspective, the value isn't so far off...it's more about "fit" where Garland just doesn't jive with Pettersson or JT Miller. But that doesn't necessarily help St.Louis a whole lot...and there's also an argument that because of his size and playoff experience, Saad is the more easily moved winger where they could just go out and get something the like better in return.


Trying to think outside the box, knowing Rutherford is still in the building with influence, i'd wonder if mixing Kapanen in as well wouldn't start to kick something lose. But i still really don't know how to go about making that work.


Saad and Kapanen for Garland+ would really sort out a lot of things for the Canucks i think. It'd bring in that winger in Saad to play third wheel on one of the top-2 lines...and Kapanen can offer a different flavour of a similar thing in the bottom-6, to what Garland brings. Just easier to walk away if things get really tight under the cap with Pettersson/Hronek extensions.

Still don't know what the "+" would look like though.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Yeah. It's just a little convoluted with the Canucks and Saad...in that Garland would be the obvious salary offset going back. They're more or less the same $$$ and same term remaining.

Problem arises with...how much more does Vancouver add? There's a detachment there if St.Louis decide to start blowing things out the airlock. Realistically...Garland is a comparatively productive player, and he can arguably make more with less further down the lineup. He's younger too. So from a Vancouver perspective, the value isn't so far off...it's more about "fit" where Garland just doesn't jive with Pettersson or JT Miller. But that doesn't necessarily help St.Louis a whole lot...and there's also an argument that because of his size and playoff experience, Saad is the more easily moved winger where they could just go out and get something the like better in return.


Trying to think outside the box, knowing Rutherford is still in the building with influence, i'd wonder if mixing Kapanen in as well wouldn't start to kick something lose. But i still really don't know how to go about making that work.


Saad and Kapanen for Garland+ would really sort out a lot of things for the Canucks i think. It'd bring in that winger in Saad to play third wheel on one of the top-2 lines...and Kapanen can offer a different flavour of a similar thing in the bottom-6, to what Garland brings. Just easier to walk away if things get really tight under the cap with Pettersson/Hronek extensions.

Still don't know what the "+" would look like though.

Yeah, I’m just not too sure where the benefit of swapping Saad and Garland would currently come in to play is the issue. Garland certainly has his strengths. He’s a pretty good possession player. But with that he doesn’t really have a shot (which is something we lack) and also isn’t really an asset defensively.

Saad on the other hand is more or less an asset defensively, has an ok shot not great, and isn’t really a cycle player more so a rush player who will crash the net.

Core issue at hand is it is adding 500k over year for 3 years so it’s more or less a hockey trade, in which we are just shaking up the cards in the deck. Not sure if it’s for better or worse. The play driving could certainly be useful as outside of our top 3 players we really don’t have much offensive ability on their own. But is it worth the increase in cap if our ultimate goal is to plan for the future? Hard to tell.

Kapanen on the other hand is one of the few UFAs to be I’d pleasantly welcome back. That being said if he can be moved he should be moved. He is pretty similar to Saad tbh without the crashing the net portion and is a little better of a possession player.

Workable, probably, I would however ask Vancouver to retain down Garland to 4.5 to not add cap when our goal isn’t necessarily to be competitive right now. Then you gotta factor in how do you make Kapanen work too and what sort of additions are really worth it for Vancouver.

Workable situation. Just not sure how to make it beneficial for both

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I forget Saad is even in the league. never ever see him on tv, hear his name, read about him, etc

I understand. i watch nearly every blues game and there are long stretches where i think same thing.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

If they don’t turn things around, everything is likely on the table….. minus Thomas probably.

As teams call though, it’s probably more likely we see Parayko the first big ticket player to go elsewhere.

As for Saad, Armstrong will do right by him. He’ll send him somewhere Saad thinks he fits well, as long as the offers are similar.

Parayko is gonna be the big fish though.

Parsing Armstrong's comments is one of my treasured mini diversions. And based on his recent press conference, I don't think Parayko is going anywhere. We are likely looking to move one or more of Leddy, Krug, or Faulk.

 

[Petes2424]

Parsing Armstrong's comments is one of my treasured mini diversions. And based on his recent press conference, I don't think Parayko is going anywhere. We are likely looking to move one or more of Leddy, Krug, or Faulk.

In a perfect world but with those three, there’s quite a bit of difference in what they’d get, or might have to give in return.

If things go further South after this change, and they can get a nice package for Parayko, that has a big puck mover who’s close to the NHL coming in return, they have to start thinking long and hard about it.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

In a perfect world but with those three, there’s quite a bit of difference in what they’d get, or might have to give in return.

If things go further South after this change, and they can get a nice package for Parayko, that has a big puck mover who’s close to the NHL coming in return, they have to start thinking long and hard about it.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I’m just reading tea leaves. But that is I thinking as of now, doesn’t mean it won’t change.

 

[biturbo19]

Yeah, I’m just not too sure where the benefit of swapping Saad and Garland would currently come in to play is the issue. Garland certainly has his strengths. He’s a pretty good possession player. But with that he doesn’t really have a shot (which is something we lack) and also isn’t really an asset defensively.

Saad on the other hand is more or less an asset defensively, has an ok shot not great, and isn’t really a cycle player more so a rush player who will crash the net.

Core issue at hand is it is adding 500k over year for 3 years so it’s more or less a hockey trade, in which we are just shaking up the cards in the deck. Not sure if it’s for better or worse. The play driving could certainly be useful as outside of our top 3 players we really don’t have much offensive ability on their own. But is it worth the increase in cap if our ultimate goal is to plan for the future? Hard to tell.

Kapanen on the other hand is one of the few UFAs to be I’d pleasantly welcome back. That being said if he can be moved he should be moved. He is pretty similar to Saad tbh without the crashing the net portion and is a little better of a possession player.

Workable, probably, I would however ask Vancouver to retain down Garland to 4.5 to not add cap when our goal isn’t necessarily to be competitive right now. Then you gotta factor in how do you make Kapanen work too and what sort of additions are really worth it for Vancouver.

Workable situation. Just not sure how to make it beneficial for both

I wouldn't say Garland is a liability defensively per se, but i get the overall sentiment there. He's not a plus either. He's also giving up tons of size to Saad. It's tricky partly because Garland is such a weird player. He's similar to Kapanen, but better...in that he's got even more of that ability to drive play without any real help and more consistent. But like Kapanen, he always just seems like an awkward fit with real Top-6 skill lines.

And if the Blues are really just going to finally call it and turn on the rebuild jets...not sure what Garland does for them even though he's younger.


It does feel like there could be some sort of deal there, it's just...really hard to feel out what it would look like.

 

[quietbruinfan]

I believe the Blues may be close to unloading and trying to go full rebuild. Faulk and Saad may be the first to go.

Saad is still a useful , speedy winger. I think teams will be interested, Bruins included. Faulk also has some value. I bet he stays in the West, maybe goes to one of the Alberta teams.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I forget Saad is even in the league. never ever see him on tv, hear his name, read about him, etc

That's Brandon Saad's career in a nutshell.

As teams call though, it’s probably more likely we see Parayko the first big ticket player to go elsewhere.

As much as the franchise has gone to near-mythic lengths for Parayko, I would be shocked if they move him.

Should they? Yes, because there's more than one GM who still thinks he's got that "next level" that he'll hit, and the truth is he's never getting beyond what you see - and the Blues should take advantage of someone's starry-eyed visions of what will never be. Will they? No.

 

[BlueDream]

I'd have traded Ryan Johansen and Oskar Olausson for Saad until I realized Saad has 2 more years on his deal after this season. Yikes. That's going to be a hard contract to move at $4.5MM AAV.

lol no it won’t. Two years left for a 31-year old winger who can play in your middle 6, score 40+ points, skate well, PK and be responsible defensively. Especially with the cap going up, that’s a fine contract.

And because of that, we can just keep him until our prospects are ready. Not a guy we need to move at all - and shouldn’t - unless someone offers at least a 2nd rounder.

 

[biturbo19]

As much as the franchise has gone to near-mythic lengths for Parayko, I would be shocked if they move him.

Should they? Yes, because there's more than one GM who still thinks he's got that "next level" that he'll hit, and the truth is he's never getting beyond what you see - and the Blues should take advantage of someone's starry-eyed visions of what will never be. Will they? No.

The thing with Parayko is...it doesn't take some "starry-eyed visions" of what he might become, to understand the value there.

The sheer number of teams who are looking for a big, physical, stay-at-home RH defenceman is huge. The question they'll all be asking themselves is more like..."would i be fired before this contract turns bad?"

That's the issue. Just realistically speaking, a $6.5M contract until he's ~36 is tough to sell for value. If his deal were a few years shorter, he'd fetch an absolute fortune.


The question is just...who is actually willing to make that short-term gain, for long-term pain sacrifice? And at what price?

I'd still take him over Faulks slightly shorter deal. But basically just because you're making a future compromise either way. I'd rather at least get the piece i need more in the meantime.

 

[stl76]

lol no it won’t. Two years left for a 31-year old winger who can play in your middle 6, score 40+ points, skate well, PK and be responsible defensively. Especially with the cap going up, that’s a fine contract.

And because of that, we can just keep him until our prospects are ready. Not a guy we need to move at all - and shouldn’t - unless someone offers at least a 2nd rounder.

Wait till next TDL or the year after. Retain 50%. Receive a 1st. This is the way.

 

[David71]

sadd would be a nice target for vancouver to aquire. can score very fast i think. proven playoff performer as well. ride shotgun alongside miller. has experince on the top line with chicago twice. kane toews/hossa.

 

[PocketNines]

Saad is a useful player for a solid playoff team. 18 months ago he was part of a ROR-Perron-Leddy-Paryako unit hard matched against MacKinnon-Rantanen and Makar during the Avs Cup year and Saad was a major part of shutting that unit down during the series despite the Avs advancing in 6.

 

[Unsustainable]

Could we do a package deal of something like:

Car: Bennington, Faulk
Blues: Necas, Pesce, Morrow, Raanta, 1st, ???