Confirmed with Link: Brady Tkachuk - The decider: signs 3 year ELC

[Tnuoc Alucard]

If the decision to rebuild was made in February, I don't give a **** how much time and effort was put into scouting this year. Giving up the 2018 pick should have been a no-brainer. You take that gamble 100 times out of 100, especially if you've already committed to trading Hoffman and Karlsson both.

And that's why you're not a NHL GM.

So you're suggesting that you would have passed on the fourth selection and then hope for a better drafting position , after the lotteries, next year?

What do you think the odds would be, that you'd get a better prospect than Tkachuk?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

And that's why you're not a NHL GM.

So you're suggesting that you would have passed on the fourth selection and then hope for a better drafting position , after the lotteries, next year?

What do you think the odds would be, that you'd get a better prospect than Tkachuk?

Significantly higher. By all available metrics, the top end of the 2019 draft is loaded with talent, whereas this draft had three or four clearly defined top guys and a drop-off afterward. And if we can get the fourth pick with Karlsson, I have no doubt in my mind that we can finish the same or lower without him. I wouldn't be a good GM, I know that. I wouldn't want the job, frankly.

But this isn't in the "you wouldn't make a good GM" venue – this is in the "common sense" venue. If you're going to sell the fanbase on a rebuild, you can't start the rebuild without a first round pick and still expect the fanbase's support. It speaks very loudly to a lack of plan, a lack of direction, or at the very least a lack of ability to execute on what makes the most sense for the franchise.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

you can't start the rebuild without a first round pick and still expect the fanbase's support. It speaks very loudly to a lack of plan, a lack of direction, or at the very least a lack of ability to execute on what makes the most sense for the franchise.

So then what would you call what the Senators are doing?

 

[jbeck5]

If the decision to rebuild was made in February, I don't give a **** how much time and effort was put into scouting this year. Giving up the 2018 pick should have been a no-brainer. You take that gamble 100 times out of 100, especially if you've already committed to trading Hoffman and Karlsson both.

Is it that you're so convinced that we will finish worse than second last?
Is it that you're so convinced we would win the lottery this year?
Is it that you're so convinced that even if we get roughly the same pick, that next summers top 5 are much better?

What if we finish like 3rd or 4th last, and others win the lottery...we could end up with like the 7th pick..

You make it sound like all possibilities lead to next pick being better...but that's easily not the case.

We got the 4th pick from being second last. Im not convinced we will be in the bottom one or two teams. Bottom 5? sure. But if we finish 4th or 5th last, and drop a couple spots like last year, we end up with the 6th or 7th pick which would be worse in my opinion.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Is it that you're so convinced that we will finish worse than second last?
Is it that you're so convinced we would win the lottery this year?
Is it that you're so convinced that even if we get roughly the same pick, that next summers top 5 are much better?

What if we finish like 3rd or 4th last, and others win the lottery...we could end up with like the 7th pick..

You make it sound like all possibilities lead to next pick being better...but that's easily not the case.

We got the 4th pick from being second last. Im not convinced we will be in the bottom one or two teams. Bottom 5? sure. But if we finish 4th or 5th last, and drop a couple spots like last year, we end up with the 6th or 7th pick which would be worse in my opinion.

That's why PD took the "Bird in the Hand" ...

 

[jbeck5]

That's why PD took the "Bird in the Hand" ...

Exactly.

I was torn, but i think the right choice was made with what we know. The odds of us finishing worse than second last aren't that great. We've got some young pieces.

That being said i do agree with dzingelalltheway that management has shown a clear lack or direction or plan. Maybe NOW they have one, but the last year has not been pretty. A mix of moves a contending team does with a mix of moves that a seller does. Management is very fickle. Any winning streak and they think they're a contender. We saw this under bryan murray too. Where a winning streak could fool them into thinking they're better than they were.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

So then what would you call what the Senators are doing?

I don't know. If you figure it out, please let me know. Shipping out your talent for pennies on the dollar without having either the skill or the means to acquire blue-chip talent doesn't scream rebuild to me.

Is it that you're so convinced that we will finish worse than second last?
Is it that you're so convinced we would win the lottery this year?
Is it that you're so convinced that even if we get roughly the same pick, that next summers top 5 are much better?

Yes to the first and the last. I don't even think it's unreasonable to expect us to be worse this year than last, and if it were anyone else beside you two questioning it, I'd be genuinely puzzled.

What if we finish like 3rd or 4th last, and others win the lottery...we could end up with like the 7th pick..

Then that's the risk you run. But it makes much more sense than deciding on a rebuild, trading your talent, sowing discontent and giving the fanbase little to cheer for in a year that was already shaping up to be a challenging one from an attendance perspective.

You make it sound like all possibilities lead to next pick being better...but that's easily not the case.

We got the 4th pick from being second last. Im not convinced we will be in the bottom one or two teams. Bottom 5? sure. But if we finish 4th or 5th last, and drop a couple spots like last year, we end up with the 6th or 7th pick which would be worse in my opinion.

It's not the case, and I can't stress that enough – it's a gamble. But it's a gamble that makes far more sense to take than the safe option, if for no other reason than to give the fanbase the impression that management knows what the hell they're doing. More to the point, I disagree with your opinion that 7th next year would be worse than 4th this year. I don't have much more insight than you, surely, but I believe 2019 to be a significantly better draft year than 2018. Only time will tell on that front, though.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Exactly.

I was torn, but i think the right choice was made with what we know. The odds of us finishing worse than second last aren't that great. We've got some young pieces.

That being said i do agree with dzingelalltheway that management has shown a clear lack or direction or plan. Maybe NOW they have one, but the last year has not been pretty. A mix of moves a contending team does with a mix of moves that a seller does. Management is very fickle. Any winning streak and they think they're a contender. We saw this under bryan murray too. Where a winning streak could fool them into thinking they're better than they were.

Well, the Senators did reach the seventh game of the ECFs and were a goal away from advancing to the SCFs .......... they were the third last playing in the the 2016-17 playoffs ............ so going into the 2017-18 season, they had reasons to believe that they could build on the previous season and playoffs, and shortly into the season they made a huge trade, for a number 1 center, in the thinking that they had improved the teams chances for that season, and the playoffs .................. and then the wheels fell off the season, and they finished 30th.

Started the season with playoffs pretty much in the picture, finished with the number two pre-lottery draft spot.


Obviously they could not of foreseen the season unfolding that way ........ but they had no choice but to address the problems on the team, on and off the ice.


It is just so maddening to see posters in here actually suggest that PD traded away (what is now) the 2019 1st rounder knowing that the team would finish 30th overall, and be in a rebuild position after the season.

Yeah, it's not a good position to be in, but PD did not plan it that way.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I don't know. If you figure it out, please let me know. Shipping out your talent for pennies on the dollar without having either the skill or the means to acquire blue-chip talent doesn't scream rebuild to me.

Yes to the first and the last. I don't even think it's unreasonable to expect us to be worse this year than last, and if it were anyone else beside you two questioning it, I'd be genuinely puzzled.


Then that's the risk you run. But it makes much more sense than deciding on a rebuild, trading your talent, sowing discontent and giving the fanbase little to cheer for in a year that was already shaping up to be a challenging one from an attendance perspective.


It's not the case, and I can't stress that enough – it's a gamble. But it's a gamble that makes far more sense to take than the safe option, if for no other reason than to give the fanbase the impression that management knows what the hell they're doing. More to the point, I disagree with your opinion that 7th next year would be worse than 4th this year. I don't have much more insight than you, surely, but I believe 2019 to be a significantly better draft year than 2018. Only time will tell on that front, though.

The odds of finishing dead last AND then not losing the lottery are pretty low. We'll see how the year plays out but even if we don't win another game all year odds are we pick 4th.

As for giving the fan base the impression that they know what they're doing... well... LOL. That went out the window with trading Karlsson no matter what year you choose to pick. And if you defer after getting the 4th pick you're telling your paying customers that you expect to be worse than 2nd last AND that you don't know what you're doing. You're also telling the players on the team that they're expected to lose. Not good optics on any front.

I think they HAD to pick this year.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

It is just so maddening to see posters in here actually suggest that PD traded away (what is now) the 2019 1st rounder knowing that the team would finish 30th overall, and be in a rebuild position after the season.

He traded away a lottery-protected 1st that could be deferred to 2019. And he had to make the decision only after the decision to enter a rebuild was made – by his own admission.

For someone who attempts to distort facts as often as you do, you're not very good at it.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I will also say that if we had deferred to next year and Colorado had picked Zadina...the meltdown on here would have been glorious.

 

[HSF]

I will also say that if we had deferred to next year and Colorado had picked Zadina...the meltdown on here would have been glorious.

Yup or if we were watching Tkachuk scoring for another team

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The odds of finishing dead last AND then not losing the lottery are pretty low. We'll see how the year plays out but even if we don't win another game all year odds are we pick 4th.

As for giving the fan base the impression that they know what they're doing... well... LOL. That went out the window with trading Karlsson no matter what year you choose to pick. And if you defer after getting the 4th pick you're telling your paying customers that you expect to be worse than 2nd last AND that you don't know what you're doing. You're also telling the players on the team that they're expected to lose. Not good optics on any front.

I think they HAD to pick this year.

Or they could have been honest and admit that a rebuild was coming once the decision was made.

Instead they gave everyone more reasons to not trust them.

 

[stempniaksen]

I hate the the management group as much as anyone, but I truly think there's truth to the idea that they view Tkachuk as a better player than anyone in in the 2018/2019 draft outside of Hughes/Dahlin/Svechnikov. You can certainly disagree with the organizations take on this, but this might be the one case where the team wasn't pulling some PR spin and simply took the kid they thought would have the biggest impact going forward.

 

[coladin]

It's like the puck follows him around, it is unlike anything I have ever seen in Ottawa. His hockey sense and his understanding of the game is what sets him apart. Can't recall anyone going to the front of the net like he does. Seemed like if there was a rebound, he was near the puck.

He is going to be something.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It's like the puck follows him around, it is unlike anything I have ever seen in Ottawa. His hockey sense and his understanding of the game is what sets him apart. Can't recall anyone going to the front of the net like he does. Seemed like if there was a rebound, he was near the puck.

He is going to be something.

And he knows exactly what to do with it in close, with no time to think. I said it before but it's like the position is in his blood, he doesn't have to learn to drive the net or learn where to place the puck when he's there. He makes quick little passes that look like veteran moves to guys with years of chemistry.

He's also winning puck battles outnumbered, in close...

Glorious so far...

 

[Ice-Tray]

Or they could have been honest and admit that a rebuild was coming once the decision was made.

Instead they gave everyone more reasons to not trust them.

Probably best not to given that there were many moves to be made first, and a draft to complete. I don't have a problem with the timing off tipping the hand. Fans don't really need to know when decisions were being made, trading EK was as good a time as any to break the news in my opinion.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I hate the the management group as much as anyone, but I truly think there's truth to the idea that they view Tkachuk as a better player than anyone in in the 2018/2019 draft outside of Hughes/Dahlin/Svechnikov. You can certainly disagree with the organizations take on this, but this might be the one case where the team wasn't pulling some PR spin and simply took the kid they thought would have the biggest impact going forward.

In other words, incompetence. Probably the most likely scenario.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He traded away a lottery-protected 1st that could be deferred to 2019. And he had to make the decision only after the decision to enter a rebuild was made – by his own admission.

For someone who attempts to distort facts as often as you do, you're not very good at it.

I'm sorry but you're idea of deferring the pick is a terrible one in my opinion.

Sure, some kids look great a year out, like they always do, but if the scouting team doesn't see a player better than BT other than Hughes, you don't pass on the pick.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that since we have decided on a rebuild that we NEED a first rounder next year above all else. We plummeted in the standings and just picked 4OA this last year, like most have explained, it will take defeating long odds to end up picking better next year regardless of where we finish. Then of course you have to add in the likelihood of the selected player ending up being better than BT.

People should be happy that we targeted a guy we wanted before the draft, and he fell to us and we got him. We got the guy we wanted, we didn't settle on who was left rather than defer. When you have a good scouting team, you gotta be happy when they get their man.

Given the attitude of fans at the moment, PD would be roasted next year for deterring the pick once we saw how great BT was on another team, it's a no win situation. Split support on the pick at this point really is a victory for him.

Also, we have two non-protected first round picks for 2020, and we will either extend or trade two valuable assets this coming season as well. The rebuild will be just fine.

 

[coladin]

I think on Sportsnet, unless I am mistaken , the analysts and the poll agreed with keeping Tkachuk over the possibility of maybe getting Hughes.

 

[BatherSeason]

I think on Sportsnet, unless I am mistaken , the analysts and the poll agreed with keeping Tkachuk over the possibility of maybe getting Hughes.

There has to be a thread where we can find points that Coladin, Mysens, Ice-Tray, Count, etc. have differing opinions. Quite odd that you all feel the exact same way over every aspect of this organization.

 

[coladin]

There has to be a thread where we can find points that Coladin, Mysens, Ice-Tray, Count, etc. have differing opinions. Quite odd that you all feel the exact same way over every aspect of this organization.

Just saying what I watched last night. It was actually Brian Burke, Doug MacLean and Elliot Friedman's opinion. Just passing it on.

 

[BankStreetParade]

There has to be a thread where we can find points that Coladin, Mysens, Ice-Tray, Count, etc. have differing opinions. Quite odd that you all feel the exact same way over every aspect of this organization.

It's pretty easy to do the same exercise for those who have the strongest anti-management (or whatever you want to call it) beliefs.

 

[BatherSeason]

It's pretty easy to do the same exercise for those who have the strongest anti-management (or whatever you want to call it) beliefs.

Probably not. I am sure that many of us disagree on Ceci's deployment, or the quality of the sports radio programming, or Boro's effectiveness. However, the majority of pro-ownership/management people in here seem to all share the same opinion on everything, its almost as if you are the same people, or working for the same person

 

[coladin]

Probably not. I am sure that many of us disagree on Ceci's deployment, or the quality of the sports radio programming, or Boro's effectiveness. However, the majority of pro-ownership/management people in here seem to all share the same opinion on everything, its almost as if you are the same people, or working for the same person

Why derail the thread though, seriously? Can we not have one, ONE, thread that can stay on topic