Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[SensFactor]

You can guarantee none of this.

I can guarantee that he was paying very close attention when Matthew asked to be moved, picked his Southern destination, and then won a Cup.

I'll stick by my statement. He's not Matthew. He isn't on the ice and he's not off the ice.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

This is so unnecessary, I already said he makes mistakes defensively. That's not my point, bringing up examples of bad defensive play (in the form of screenshots, wtf is that?) is pointless, because I'm not saying he's fine defensively.

DJ Smith clearly gave Brady free reign to do whatever he wanted out there. Brady was never asked to play a defensive game under DJ, and as Staios said last week, the structured defensive game is something that wasn't there under DJ, it's new for this team, and that means it's new for Brady. That defensive side of the game comes easier to some players, and it looks like it's not something that comes easy for Brady. You see it as being lazy on a backcheck, but what it really is is Brady falling into old habits because that's how he was allowed to play under DJ. If you watch Brady closely, you can see numerous times throughout the game where he's much more involved defensively in his own end than he ever used to be. Green was saying earlier (when we were winning games) that Brady is a guy who has been really committed to changing his game. That's a process, it doesn't happen overnight, it doesn't happen after 20 games, and he's going to make mistakes and fall back into bad habits every now and then. The expectations people have of him are silly. Yes he has tp be better defensively. That doesn't mean that people need to question his commitment to the team, call for him to be traded, and say he shouldn't be captain.

That's thing though it isn't even about how bad he is defensively, it's about the effort. Literally the base requirement for an NHLer let alone a NHL captain.

When you have a 36 year old player put in more effort than your teams captain, you're screwed.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

When Brady makes the playoffs as many times as Crosby did, he’ll get the benefit of the doubt. I think you’re just being obtuse cuz there isn’t much of a Defence for Brady’s immaturity

The defense for his immaturity is that he's immature, he's 25 years old. That is very young for a leader. Alfredsson didn't establish himself as a great leader until he was in his 30s. The previous regime slapped the C on him when he was like 22 years old and gave him DJ Smith as his teacher. The only mentor he had was Claude Giroux, a guy who only signed with the team because it's his home town. He hasn't even had a full year to learn from guys like Alfredsson, it's going to take time for him to mature as a leader, and as you said yourself, he's not Sidney Crosby who was a unicorn great leader from the start. Guys like Crosby, and Toews are really rare, but Brady can become a great leader himself. It's not going to happen with the fanbase blaming everything on him and asking for him to be traded though.

 

[Senscore]

I'll stick by my statement. He's not Matthew. He isn't on the ice and he's not off the ice.

He might not be Matthew but he is a Tkachuk

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

That's thing though it isn't even about how bad he is defensively, it's about the effort. Literally the base requirement for an NHLer let alone a NHL captain.

When you have a 36 year old player put in more effort than your teams captain, you're screwed.

Just stop. Your schtick isn't funny, it's not enjoyable, and it's not charming.

 

[Relapsing]

This is so unnecessary, I already said he makes mistakes defensively. That's not my point, bringing up examples of bad defensive play (in the form of screenshots, wtf is that?) is pointless, because I'm not saying he's fine defensively.

I'm so sorry for making you sit through a handful of screenshots that provide a concrete example of the kind of play I've been talking about, in an easier to digest format than a time stamped video that doesn't provide you with that kind of play breakdown?

That defensive side of the game comes easier to some players, and it looks like it's not something that comes easy for Brady. You see it as being lazy on a backcheck, but what it really is is Brady falling into old habits because that's how he was allowed to play under DJ.

So turning north instead of south is a habit now? OK. Sure. I think that's more turning left or right, but what do I know.

Glad we agree he's not fine defensively. I haven't seen how his commitment to more responsible play has changed his on-ice play, but again, if you can provide me with an example of what you're talking about, I'm here to discuss.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'll stick by my statement. He's not Matthew. He isn't on the ice and he's not off the ice.

Does this apply forever? How many more losing seasons do you think he'd want to stick around after? 1, 2, 3? Pretty hard to ignore the short contract runway remaining and the team still sucking imo. That's likely to be the biggest driver of the situation.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

View attachment 935404

I'm so sorry for making you sit through a handful of screenshots that provide a concrete example of the kind of play I've been talking about, in an easier to digest format than a time stamped video that doesn't provide you with that kind of play breakdown?



So turning north instead of south is a habit now? OK. Sure. I think that's more turning left or right, but what do I know.

Glad we agree he's not fine defensively. I haven't seen how his commitment to more responsible play has changed his on-ice play, but again, if you can provide me with an example of what you're talking about, I'm here to discuss.

I shouldn't need to provide you with examples, because anyone watching the games who understands hockey can see his improved defensive play, particularly along the boards. Still needs to be better and more consistent, but it's moving in the right direction.

Lol @ thinking some screenshots is "easier to digest" than a freaking video.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I shouldn't need to provide you with examples, because anyone watching the games who understands hockey can see his improved defensive play, particularly along the boards. Still needs to be better and more consistent, but it's moving in the right direction.

Lol @ thinking some screenshots is "easier to digest" than a freaking video.

Honestly, @Relapsing took you to school, my friend.

 

[Relapsing]

I shouldn't need to provide you with examples, because anyone watching the games who understands hockey can see his improved defensive play, particularly along the boards. Still needs to be better and more consistent, but it's moving in the right direction.

Lol @ thinking some screenshots is "easier to digest" than a freaking video.

Shouldn't need to, can't, or just won't?

Lots of game recap videos available, you dont even need to give screen grabs or a time stamp. Just tell me where to fast-forward to see your examples.

Look, if you're going to keep resorting to questioning my ability to read or understand the game, and just insist I'm wrong after showing you what I'm talking about, then we have nothing further to discuss. I don't believe in discussing stuff like this with someone who cant put in a basic amount of effort.

Much like Brady, I want you to show, not tell.

 

[Relapsing]

Honestly, @Relapsing took you to school, my friend.

Thanks boo

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Just stop. Your schtick isn't funny, it's not enjoyable, and it's not charming.

Not trying to be.

But what really isn't funny or enjoyable or charming is a team that gets eliminated from playoff contention in November and a captain who is mentally soft.

 

[Dionysus]

Whether it's Brady or Brady and Co., it's still the best players on the team that are the problem. They aren't turning this around by swapping 3rd/4th liners again.

That's the issue. No amount of complementary players will fix this. Especially not with the slim budget that is left after all the 8m contracts.

When the game is on the line, the top players will be on the ice. The Sens top players have not been able to get it done. Granted, they have been young with minimal top-end veterans to make some of the plays. Giroux playing 22+ minutes in huge games shows that there is not enough coming from the young core in big moments.

 

[Beech]

He might not be Matthew but he is a Tkachuk

you have been in fine form today. I read a few of your posts.

 

[Micklebot]

Pal, I watch the same games you do. Feel free to make an argument without questioning my ability to read the game. I know what it looks like when someone coasts on a backcheck, or disappears from the d-zone to cheat a breakout and then has to circle back into the zone because he left his squad a man down. I'm gonna provide an example. You wanna provide an example of a defensively responsible play?

Example: 5th goal against for Edm

View attachment 935394
Brady south of centre ice, expecting a pass from a contested puck. He is in a position to help win this puck, but makes a different choice

View attachment 935395
Note how he his the only Senator with momentum into the o-zone because he's anticipated a pass that will not come.

View attachment 935396

He recognizes the loss of the contested puck and circles back

View attachment 935397

And is the last man into the zone.

Would you like other examples? This ain't the only one I can think of.

This is the kind of stuff that is costing us goals against. We cannot expect success when 1/5 guys on the ice is coasting back into the zone off a contested neutral or d-zone puck battle.

This is an interesting play, because at the end of the day, you want players to take good risks when they have backup, particularly when you are trailing by multiple goals, and not take risks when they don't have the backup.

When Zub disrupts the pass and looks like he has the advantage to get control, Brady decides to take a risk for the pass that unfortunately didn't come, we had Kleven back, and Zub was still in position to at worst give up the two on two, Greig also has position on RNH though decided to release from him to provide back pressure on Ryan instead, and Norris is on the weak side in case a D pinches.

The support was there to take the risk, it didn't work out because Zub got caught by surprise not realizing Greig released RNH who was then able to beat him wide for the tip, and Norris couldn't decide whether to help out with RNH or take the trailer.

In a game where you are down 4-1 in the third, that's a risk you probably are happy to see Tkachuk take as a coach, end result aside.

 

[Relapsing]

This is an interesting play, because at the end of the day, you want players to take good risks when they have backup, particularly when you are trailing by multiple goals, and not take risks when they don't have the backup.

When Zub disrupts the pass and looks like he has the advantage to get control, Brady decides to take a risk for the pass that unfortunately didn't come, we had Kleven back, and Zub was still in position to at worst give up the two on two, Greig also has position on RNH though decided to release from him to provide back pressure on Ryan instead, and Norris is on the weak side in case a D pinches.

The support was there to take the risk, it didn't work out because Zub got caught by surprise not realizing Greig released RNH who was then able to beat him wide for the tip, and Norris couldn't decide whether to help out with RNH or take the trailer.

In a game where you are down 4-1 in the third, that's a risk you probably are happy to see Tkachuk take as a coach, end result aside.

Love the different take on the play, I appreciate you taking the time. I generally agree that there's a time for risk, especially when down by multiple goals. I just wish that risk was contained to those situations.

I hope my play-by-play screenshot breakdown helped in your analysis, and wasn't too onerous of a task

 

[Micklebot]

Love the different take on the play, I appreciate you taking the time. I generally agree that there's a time for risk, especially when down by multiple goals. I just wish that risk was contained to those situations.

I hope my play-by-play screenshot breakdown helped in your analysis, and wasn't too onerous of a task

Now, I'm not saying Tkachuk always takes good risks, he doesn't, I just think we sometimes hyper focus on one player in a vacuum without keeping the context into account. I watched the video to analyze the play, and Brady is certainly sacrificing some defense for offence on the the play but to me, it was warranted. There are times when he doesn't have the backup he had there and nothing comes of it because the shot goes wide, much harder to find video to analyze for those situations though.

 

[SensFactor]

Does this apply forever? How many more losing seasons do you think he'd want to stick around after? 1, 2, 3? Pretty hard to ignore the short contract runway remaining and the team still sucking imo. That's likely to be the biggest driver of the situation.

That can be said about every single player in the NHL. No player has a permanent bond to an organization. Heck even Alfie when to Detroit to try and win. That wasn't my point.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

That can be said about every single player in the NHL. No player has a permanent bond to an organization. Heck even Alfie when to Detroit to try and win. That wasn't my point.

That's fair, but I think people gloss over it a bit too much as to what's most likely to drive the bus on this. 3 years left, soon an NMC, and a team lost in losing purgatory. I think it's undeniable that it comes to a head if they continue to suck, which at this point, I don't know how anyone has faith they won't, at least in the near future of this year and next when it matters the most for this situation.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Shouldn't need to, can't, or just won't?

Lots of game recap videos available, you dont even need to give screen grabs or a time stamp. Just tell me where to fast-forward to see your examples.

Look, if you're going to keep resorting to questioning my ability to read or understand the game, and just insist I'm wrong after showing you what I'm talking about, then we have nothing further to discuss. I don't believe in discussing stuff like this with someone who cant put in a basic amount of effort.

Much like Brady, I want you to show, not tell.

Again, there's no point pulling up screenshots or even videos. Every player is capable of making a bad play, every player is capable of making a good play. Remember how annoying people were with Karlsson where they'd wait for him to screw up and then use a single play as proof that he was terrible defensively? There's no point to that. What I care about it how they look game by game. You can't isolate that and say "here's an example" because he could have one good defensive stop and then suck for the rest of the game.

I'm questioning your ability to read the game when you make the claim that you haven't seen Brady's commitment to defensive hockey this year. You either can't recognize it when it's happening, or you're choosing not to.

 

[SensHulk]

The defense for his immaturity is that he's immature, he's 25 years old. That is very young for a leader. Alfredsson didn't establish himself as a great leader until he was in his 30s. The previous regime slapped the C on him when he was like 22 years old and gave him DJ Smith as his teacher. The only mentor he had was Claude Giroux, a guy who only signed with the team because it's his home town. He hasn't even had a full year to learn from guys like Alfredsson, it's going to take time for him to mature as a leader, and as you said yourself, he's not Sidney Crosby who was a unicorn great leader from the start. Guys like Crosby, and Toews are really rare, but Brady can become a great leader himself. It's not going to happen with the fanbase blaming everything on him and asking for him to be traded though.

Fair enough. I don’t disagree with any of this, and I stated in another thread that trading Mark Stone really set us back in more ways than one, including proper insulation for a guy like Brady.

But at what point does the message go through? He’s already been made captain and ripping that apart to give to someone else more capable is now out of the question without ruining the whole relationship. So he’s either gotta figure it out fast or he himself will want out after another year of missing the playoffs.

 

[Loach]

Whether it's Brady or Brady and Co., it's still the best players on the team that are the problem. They aren't turning this around by swapping 3rd/4th liners again.

The kicker is we shouldn't have had to sign this many vets to fill out the roster. We should have been graduating players. Poor trades, signings and drafting destroyed the organizational depth of this team. It can't be understated or blamed on the current regime, which is, in a roudabout way what is happening. Even the guys on the team are inadvertantly taking shit for it. It is what it is, but it shouldn't be forgotten.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The kicker is we shouldn't have had to sign this many vets to fill out the roster. We should have been graduating players. Poor trades, signings and drafting destroyed the organizational depth of this team. It can't be understated or blamed on the current regime, which is, in a roudabout way what is happening. Even the guys on the team are inadvertantly taking shit for it. It is what it is, but it shouldn't be forgotten.

100%. I see where they are now almost entirely at the feet of the previous regime.

They are the reason the team is as currently constructed for the core members, committed cap wise, starving for assets, nobody pushing from below, and a bleak future made worse by owing a first round pick.

Staios' moves haven't turned out as well as I'd hoped, no denying that, but I still think he was in the realm of reason to try to run it back but with a different supporting cast and theoretically a competent goaltender. Now that they've had a kick at the can and things are where they are, I am prepared for bolder moves. Even the 1st they gave up for Ullmark was more realistically the cost to dump Korpisalo.

 

[bicboi64]

Fair enough. I don’t disagree with any of this, and I stated in another thread that trading Mark Stone really set us back in more ways than one, including proper insulation for a guy like Brady.

But at what point does the message go through? He’s already been made captain and ripping that apart to give to someone else more capable is now out of the question without ruining the whole relationship. So he’s either gotta figure it out fast or he himself will want out after another year of missing the playoffs.

In the event that the C is taken from Tkachuk for whatever reason, I sure hope he acts like a professional. Guys like Thornton, Marleau, Wheeler, Modano, Dustin Brown, etc., Sometimes it's just to make sure the team has the composition and it isn't anything against the player personally.

 

[DueDiligence]

The tucker hit won the team a playoff game. Also f*** tucker. That is one of the best moments in sens history.

The sundin stick throwing thing was hilarious. Even sundin himself thought so.

Neidermayer play was dumb, I'll give you that one.

The holdouts were never bad. He took a retirement contract with a 1 million dollar season expecting to be compensated for that if he continued to play. Melnyk told him to piss off, so he signed with a different team.

I can't recall a trade request.

He was rhe hardest worker on the ice his entire time playing in ottawa, and he deserved the conn smythe even when they lost to the ducks. That was one of th3 most dominant playoff performances I've ever seen period. And right up there with the Karlsson run in 17.

Alfie was a fantastic leader, loyal, and the most complete player this team has ever had.

If tkachuk had half of alfies work ethic he would be an absolute monster.

I'm not disagreeing that some of those things were great moments in the Sens history but at the time some were also cringe worthy to a non partisan fan.
My point was that in hindsight Alfie was a tireless worker and a strong leader but people didn't have the same opinion of him in 2005 when the team had lost to the Leafs in the playoffs for the 4th time in 5 years. Alfie had his ups and downs with Ottawa and I'm sure he is sharing with BT on what and not what to do.