It's all of it. Those factors are part of what led them here and are still true. The poor ownership/management is largely why they're so starved for assets to try to improve the team and are stuck in the mud with little ability to pivot. But they aren't excuses at this point. The players have been a disappointment, but everyone still carries this shit. Melnyk, Dorion, DJ AND the Players. Green/SS and their 1 kick at the can are largely irrelevant.
Karlsson had the green light to do whatever he needed to do to get us scoring chances, because he was capable of beating teams by himself. Don't know if anyone on this team has that same freedom where they are left to do whatever they want out there.
It doesn't matter if the roster is "good". These players learned how to lose under losers and that's why they know no different. It all led to this point. It's a cumulative thing. Alfredsson and Spezza were far more properly supported and especially properly coached during their tenures. Karlsson's teams have basically done nothing but lose either, the run was fun.
I loved the guy, but there were tons of times Karlsson mailed it in. Like Hoffman, he was at his worst when the team was out of it, but very effective and focused when they were in it.
I don't really expect them to be as competitive as Karlsson, that's part of what made him so good. It's extremely rare for a single player to give his team a chance to win every night like Karlsson did. There are maybe 2 or 3 guys in the league right now that can do that (McDavid and MacKinnon for sure, and then I'm not sure after that).
He was great, no doubt about it. I watched every single one of those games, some more than once. Like I said, I loved the guy, and I don't blame him for it because those were shit budget teams off the back of a half assed rebuild, but it still stands that most of his seasons in this league have been losing ones, so I struggle with the idea of holding him up as this godly standard of winning. If this team now went on a conference finals run, they'd basically accomplish what those Karlsson Sens teams did.
I am not completely excusing anything.
I won't argue they were better, more exciting teams. They were. Moments of excitement existed that have not been there during this last 7 years of misery and I look at that group more fondly. They didn't accomplish much of consequence either though and I consider that era a failure just as this one is one too. I mostly blame ownership/management for those teams not accomplishing more though, whereas with the current group I blame them all. My initial point was just that it's not like they're all a bunch of simp losers and we happened to end up with them all as one group. Even if this current group is a big bunch of losers, it's not because they drafted a whole group of losers, they drafted and developed them in to that. That doesn't absolve the players, they should look in the mirror too, but we're talking about one of the most mismanaged franchises in modern history. It was chaos with a dying lunatic running the show.
I don't think that's the same as having inept management and coaching. Or a dying insane man as owner. Even now, a big reason SS and Co. have difficulty doing much is because of the position Dorion put them in and I will die on that hill.
They were fun in more moments, but mostly those teams sucked and left me feeling more wanting because they could have been much better had they been properly supported.
I'm not arguing where they are now. I'm arguing how they got there. They didn't draft a whole group of losers, they developed them there, just the same as those players now are not able to look in the mirror and do what it takes. It's a cause and effect. And also, maybe the talent flat out isn't as high as some think and it's not just being "losers".
Coaching. For sure
It's a tough blow for a fanbase who has missed the playoffs from 7 years, but trust me when I say that the team would not have moved in from Brady if they did not have good reason. An unnamed NHL executive hinted to me that maybe they felt Brady was too emotional at times and bringing in a steady locker room presence like Brett Howden as a key piece in the trade with Vegas will go a long way to helping this young Senators team get back to respectability. Now do they expect Howden to replace Brady's output on the ice? No. But you have to remember he isn't the only piece coming back for the Senators. They also got Zack Whitecloud who Steve Staios hopes could make moving on from Travis Harmonic in 2 years after Hamonic's 2.5M per extension expires much easier. Even if you don't agree that trading Brady was the right move for the team, you have to give Staios his due. When Staios went to Mr. Melnyk and brought him this 2 for 1 deal Mr Melnyck insisted they needed a youth component. So Staios pushed for a 1st round pick and turned the screws to Vegas who had to include one. If Vegas wins the cup this year, the Senators will get their 2027 1st, if not it's a 3rd at the upcoming draft.
Agree to disagree I guess. You try to make it too simple. I'm not excusing the players, but there's no part of me that doesn't believe they were also led here. If they turned it into a "frat house" as you say, where was the organizational leadership to not allow that to happen? I've never seen a sports organization in as poor of a state as the tear-down/rebuild Senators. All those greats listed largely had to do a lot of losing before they learned how to win too. Jordan basically lost as long as Brady has before he won. Alfredsson looked dead in the water against the Leafs for 4 painful losses of getting owned with the rest of the team. Karlsson had a ton of ups and downs, but team wise, mostly downs. Mackinnon's Avs were a mess for years. Crosby even had some painful losses, but is also the most truly generational talent in that list and played with 2 other sure fire hall of famers.
