Brad Treliving is doing a great job. | Page 352 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

The Leafs have to get younger. This core is struggling and probably won't take you any further than it already has. That's not definite, but it's the way to lay the odds.

In their situation you consider moving core guys in order to restock the farm and set up for future runs. These can be very unpopular moves for the fanbase and owners, but we have literally seen what only doing the popular thing does for the Leafs franchise.

If Treliving manages to do the unpopular hard thing and break up the boy's club and bring in some younger, hungrier guys that no one's heard of yet I'll be favorably impressed, even if it doesn't work out immediately.

Fundamentally that's what Boston did with the Joe Thornton trade, and that combined with drafting guys like Bergeron, MacAvoy, Marchand and Pastrnak (in other words, not wasting picks and drafting well) was what gave them that long run at contending for Cups.

It took a few years, but building from the waiver wire with unknown guys, keeping the guys that work, dealing the guys who didn't fit the vision while they have redeeming value (examples: Tyler Seguin and Blake Wheeler), and developing a consistent culture based on defensive responsibility and hard nosed hard hitting hockey with guys like Chara, Boychuk, McAvoy Thornton, Campbell, Ference, etc, was what gave them the chance to make these runs in the first place.
The Leafs have likely peaked and have no draft picks and very little in the minors.
It will take a grand slam by Treliving to turn this current roster into a contender next season. Maybe he can do it, but if doesn’t work then he’ll be fired and they’ll be hiring a whole new staff.
 
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The Leafs have to get younger. This core is struggling and probably won't take you any further than it already has. That's not definite, but it's the way to lay the odds.

In their situation you consider moving core guys in order to restock the farm and set up for future runs. These can be very unpopular moves for the fanbase and owners, but we have literally seen what only doing the popular thing does for the Leafs franchise.

If Treliving manages to do the unpopular hard thing and break up the boy's club and bring in some younger, hungrier guys that no one's heard of yet I'll be favorably impressed, even if it doesn't work out immediately.

Fundamentally that's what Boston did with the Joe Thornton trade, and that combined with drafting guys like Bergeron, MacAvoy, Marchand and Pastrnak (in other words, not wasting picks and drafting well) was what gave them that long run at contending for Cups.

It took a few years, but building from the waiver wire with unknown guys, keeping the guys that work, dealing the guys who didn't fit the vision while they have redeeming value (examples: Tyler Seguin and Blake Wheeler), and developing a consistent culture based on defensive responsibility and hard nosed hard hitting hockey with guys like Chara, Boychuk, McAvoy Thornton, Campbell, Ference, etc, was what gave them the chance to make these runs in the first place.

The Thornton trade was awful what fixed Boston was signing Chara and Savard, particularly Chara.

had they not come to Boston they would have been screwed
 
The Thornton trade was awful what fixed Boston was signing Chara and Savard, particularly Chara.

had they not come to Boston they would have been screwed
The Thornton trade was a necessary ending of things. We had to break a cycle that was consistently screwing us over.

Bringing in Chara and Savard was also part of that cultural shift, but I don't think the Bruins go at that run if they keep hold of a Charmin-soft centerman Captain with a reputation for disappearing in the playoffs.

If you think I'm using that example to draw a parallel to the Leafs situation, that would be because you're right. As much as I love Austin Matthews, as of right now based on what I can see, he's basically Joe Thornton, at least until he proves otherwise.

So they got rid of the old captain and his old culture, bring in Claude Julien, who had his flaws but absolutely enforced discipline and responsibility, and turn Chara loose on the unsuspecting League and the magic began happening.

I tell you who made a difference in the culture way beyond what was expected at the time, was Timmy Thomas. When we traded Raycroft and Hannu Toivonen disintegrated Timmy stepped up and started showing flashes of what he could grow into right in that first year after the trade in the 06-07 season. Lot of mistakes but some unbelievable flashes of brilliance to go with them, and his trademark physicality and willingness to mix it up with skaters that made him both loved and hated around the league.

We'd never have gotten to know Timmy if Chiarelli wasn't willing to take some risks at the goaltending position. With Thomas lending goats for us and Chara making his presence felt up front to try and build the core around we started moving in a more positive direction. Bringing in lesser known talents like Ference and Boychuk definitely helped as well. good solid physical depth guys. Kessel, Savard and Bergy gave us something to build on up front, and then we got Krejci and Lucic too and we started to look like winners again.

At that point even Matt Cooke literally assassinating our best forward wasn't enough to stop us because we had this kid named Brad Marchand who stepped up when Savard had to step out. You might have heard of him
 
The Leafs have likely peaked and have no draft picks and very little in the minors.
It will take a grand slam by Treliving to turn this current roster into a contender next season. Maybe he can do it, but if doesn’t work then he’ll be fired and they’ll be hiring a whole new staff.

It won't take a grand slam, it will take smart spending of Marner's money.

He can't go out and hit grand slam that player is not available.

He's got nearly 30 million to play with spend it smart.

Your defense is stronger going into next season then it was going into last season because you got Carlo now.

You know your goalie tandem is solid at least for the regular season, I don't trust Woll in the playoffs after game 3 but for the regular season It's solid.

Your center positive needs work and your wings need work although honestly not as much as some believe.

You got Knies and Nylander as RW1 and LW1

You got McMann and Domi as LW2 and RW2.

If you can bring in say Marchand and Reilly Smith, or Mangiapane, or Granlund or somebody your wings are set.

The problem as I see is that right now McMann is LW2. He either needs to be traded in as package to get a better LW2, like let's say to Dallas in a package for Mason Marchment.

OR

You need to bring in a winger like Marchand for example that can bump McMann to LW3.

You don't need a grand slam you need more quality depth.
 
It won't take a grand slam, it will take smart spending of Marner's money.

He can't go out and hit grand slam that player is not available.

He's got nearly 30 million to play with spend it smart.

Your defense is stronger going into next season then it was going into last season because you got Carlo now.

You know your goalie tandem is solid at least for the regular season, I don't trust Woll in the playoffs after game 3 but for the regular season It's solid.

Your center positive needs work and your wings need work although honestly not as much as some believe.

You got Knies and Nylander as RW1 and LW1

You got McMann and Domi as LW2 and RW2.

If you can bring in say Marchand and Reilly Smith, or Mangiapane, or Granlund or somebody your wings are set.

The problem as I see is that right now McMann is LW2. He either needs to be traded in as package to get a better LW2, like let's say to Dallas in a package for Mason Marchment.

OR

You need to bring in a winger like Marchand for example that can bump McMann to LW3.

You don't need a grand slam you need more quality depth.
Now see, I see this and I see some good ideas, but I also see some of the flaws that have put the Leafs in this situation. Buying high on talent that's already established put the Leafs where they are right now. you guys are going to have to figure out how to score high value low cost talent if you want to get back on this particular horse. Especially with your farm system the way that it is.

Much as I love Brad, and I do, he's a step in the wrong direction in Toronto. You need to be able to identify the guys who haven't broken out yet, that fit the culture and can thrive in Toronto. You're still thinking like a big market team and forgetting that this is the cap era. You can't keep trying to spend your way to the promised land in a cap era. You're going to have to figure out how to play some moneypuck, and generate some inefficiencies to supplement the big contracts you've given out.

That cap space should go to at least 5 players, not 2. Start looking around the league for guys who can't take the next step on their current team and are blocked. Hungry kids with something to prove, and veterans who are under threat from strong talent behind them. Those are the guys who are going to take the Leafs the rest of the way.
 
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It won't take a grand slam, it will take smart spending of Marner's money.

He can't go out and hit grand slam that player is not available.

He's got nearly 30 million to play with spend it smart.

Your defense is stronger going into next season then it was going into last season because you got Carlo now.

You know your goalie tandem is solid at least for the regular season, I don't trust Woll in the playoffs after game 3 but for the regular season It's solid.

Your center positive needs work and your wings need work although honestly not as much as some believe.

You got Knies and Nylander as RW1 and LW1

You got McMann and Domi as LW2 and RW2.

If you can bring in say Marchand and Reilly Smith, or Mangiapane, or Granlund or somebody your wings are set.

The problem as I see is that right now McMann is LW2. He either needs to be traded in as package to get a better LW2, like let's say to Dallas in a package for Mason Marchment.

OR

You need to bring in a winger like Marchand for example that can bump McMann to LW3.

You don't need a grand slam you need more quality depth.
Bringing in all the right pieces, similar to what you’ve outlined, that can also drive the team will take a grand slam to hit on them all.
Marchand, for example, is a complimentary piece that will motivate his teammates, but expecting him to carry them through the playoffs is too much to asks. They tried it this year with Domi and MCMann, it can’t work.
 
Now see, I see this and I see some good ideas, but I also see some of the flaws that have put the Leafs in this situation. Buying high on talent that's already established put the Leafs where they are right now. you guys are going to have to figure out how to score high value low cost talent if you want to get back on this particular horse. Especially with your farm system the way that it is.

Much as I love Brad, and I do, he's a step in the wrong direction in Toronto. You need to be able to identify the guys who haven't broken out yet, that fit the culture and can thrive in Toronto. That's the only way this franchise gets to the next level.

That cap space should go to at least 5 players, not 2. Start looking around the league for guys who can't take the next step on their current team and are blocked. Hungry kids with something to prove, and veterans who are under threat from strong talent behind them. Those are the guys who are going to take the Leafs the rest of the way.
They need the next Marchand, Bennett, etc. that are hungry to win and hate losing. When Dubas and Shanny signed Tavares and prematurely halted the rebuild without evaluating their needs, that’s when a lot of us realized the window may not open…… and they’ve been piecing together ever since.
 
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They need the next Marchand, Bennett, etc. that are hungry to win and hate losing. When Dubas and Shanny signed Tavares and prematurely halted the rebuild without evaluating their needs, that’s when a lot of us realized the window may not open…… and they’ve been piecing together ever since.
Right, but here's the thing that gives me a bit of hope for you, Treliving has already found a couple of those guys. He's thinking the right way, he just needs to be allowed to do his thing without excessive meddling.

He can pad this roster with low cost high character guys and see who's going to stay. But he has to be allowed to create a 3 year plan, That's how long it took the Bruins to find/draft a critical mass of these guys and start building for our eventual Cup run.

and he has to be allowed to let some guys have a chance to fail. Not every swing for the fences he makes is going to make contact or go the distance. The Bruins went through a ton of guys who weren't THE guys, before they found the guys who could get it done, and some of the guys they moved on from went on to be great on other teams, again I reference Tyler Seguin and Blake Wheeler, excellent players, but they weren't the required fit here.
 
Now see, I see this and I see some good ideas, but I also see some of the flaws that have put the Leafs in this situation. Buying high on talent that's already established put the Leafs where they are right now. you guys are going to have to figure out how to score high value low cost talent if you want to get back on this particular horse. Especially with your farm system the way that it is.

Much as I love Brad, and I do, he's a step in the wrong direction in Toronto. You need to be able to identify the guys who haven't broken out yet, that fit the culture and can thrive in Toronto. You're still thinking like a big market team and forgetting that this is the cap era. You can't keep trying to spend your way to the promised land in a cap era. You're going to have to figure out how to play some moneypuck, and generate some inefficiencies to supplement the big contracts you've given out.

That cap space should go to at least 5 players, not 2. Start looking around the league for guys who can't take the next step on their current team and are blocked. Hungry kids with something to prove, and veterans who are under threat from strong talent behind them. Those are the guys who are going to take the Leafs the rest of the way.

It doesn't need to be Marchand, I talked about Marchand specifically because I believe if he's ava Treliving will go HARD after him.

I believe the same thing about Sam Bennett.

Brad Treliving talked A LOT in his year end press conference about changing the DNA.

What He appeared to be saying without saying it because he can't is "Target more Panthers."

It's what he did last year with, OEL, Stolarz and Lorentz.

I think he wants Marchand and Bennett.

And Mangiapane because he knows Mangiapane and Mangiapane is from here.

I think those are big targets.

Then you get into depth guys Brandon Tanev, I think Brad WANTS Marchand Bennett and Mangiapane but I think Brandon Tanev is a lock because his brother is already there.

are any of Marchand, Bennett, Mangiapane or Tanev better then Marner?

No, not even remotely close I HATE that Marner is VERY likely gone.

But the team would be better because It's MUCH deeper.
 
They need the next Marchand, Bennett, etc. that are hungry to win and hate losing. When Dubas and Shanny signed Tavares and prematurely halted the rebuild without evaluating their needs, that’s when a lot of us realized the window may not open…… and they’ve been piecing together ever since.
This is the mantra I keep repeating , get the next Bennett, Ekblad, Marchand, Wilson. Get the core to waive their nmc’s and trade for players who will grow into those mentioned above……..
 
Right, but here's the thing that gives me a bit of hope for you, Treliving has already found a couple of those guys. He's thinking the right way, he just needs to be allowed to do his thing without excessive meddling.

He can pad this roster with low cost high character guys and see who's going to stay. But he has to be allowed to create a 3 year plan, That's how long it took the Bruins to find/draft a critical mass of these guys and start building for our eventual Cup run.

and he has to be allowed to let some guys have a chance to fail. Not every swing for the fences he makes is going to make contact or go the distance. The Bruins went through a ton of guys who weren't THE guys, before they found the guys who could get it done, and some of the guys they moved on from went on to be great on other teams, again I reference Tyler Seguin and Blake Wheeler, excellent players, but they weren't the required fit here.
Treliving has a history of moving the guys they need, not acquiring them. The guys he brought in are going to be a burden, in all likelihood, beginning this season and almost certainly next season.

The past two years he’s traded away valuable picks that they sure could use this summer, granted they didn’t have enough to fill all thier needs, but maybe enough to get one of the pieces.
 
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This is the mantra I keep repeating , get the next Bennett, Ekblad, Marchand, Wilson. Get the core to waive their nmc’s and trade for players who will grow into those mentioned above……..
I kept hoping there would be a window to win if they could acquire enough pieces, particularly at D. Last year I felt they were two or threes away, now I don’t think there is a window, unless Treliving et al hit an absolute bomb of grand slam.
 
This is the mantra I keep repeating , get the next Bennett, Ekblad, Marchand, Wilson. Get the core to waive their nmc’s and trade for players who will grow into those mentioned above……..

The problem with what you want to be Buffalo.

You are one of those fans that would rather a nice shiny prospect pool then a good team.

Buffalo has that they have multiple grade A prospects.

And it hasn't meant a damn thing the team is dog shit, has been dog shit for 14 years and there is NO end in sight.

Same thing with, they are dog shit, have been dog shit for 9 years and again, like Buffalo NO end in sight.

You see Buffalo, you see Detroit and you think to yourself "Those tire fires look awesome, we should move into the tire fire we should become one with the tire fire, the tire fire is us, we are the tire fire."


f*** that

I remember that decade of darkness that was pathetic.

Give me a team that's in the mix every year over that bullshit EVERY time.
 
The problem with what you want to be Buffalo.

You are one of those fans that would rather a nice shiny prospect pool then a good team.

Buffalo has that they have multiple grade A prospects.

And it hasn't meant a damn thing the team is dog shit, has been dog shit for 14 years and there is NO end in sight.

Same thing with, they are dog shit, have been dog shit for 9 years and again, like Buffalo NO end in sight.

You see Buffalo, you see Detroit and you think to yourself "Those tire fires look awesome, we should move into the tire fire we should become one with the tire fire, the tire fire is us, we are the tire fire."


f*** that

I remember that decade of darkness that was pathetic.

Give me a team that's in the mix every year over that bullshit EVERY time.
Run it back because that’s worked soooooo well the last half DECADE. The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. You want a President’s trophy, I want a cup……
 
I kept hoping there would be a window to win if they could acquire enough pieces, particularly at D. Last year I felt they were two or threes away, now I don’t think there is a window, unless Treliving et al hit an absolute bomb of grand slam.
Why bother when idiots want to run it back……again?
 
Run it back because that’s worked soooooo well the last half DECADE. The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. You want a President’s trophy, I want a cup……

Who said ANYTHING about running it back?

There is a BIG difference between running it back and what you want.
 
Who said ANYTHING about running it back?

There is a BIG difference between running it back and what you want.
Everything but the core has been changed so yeah get rid of the one consistent that results in playoff failure, move 34,16,91,88 and 44, that solves the playoff failure currently plaguing the team…….
 
The Leafs have likely peaked and have no draft picks and very little in the minors.
It will take a grand slam by Treliving to turn this current roster into a contender next season. Maybe he can do it, but if doesn’t work then he’ll be fired and they’ll be hiring a whole new staff.
I think ownership knows they’ve wasted years hoping the core would come through and that’s why Shanny was let go. The next question was is Treliving also responsible for the mess they’re in, with Marner walking for nothing and no first round picks for the next three drafts. And while MLSE was deciding on his and possibly Berube’s fate, Brad went back to Calgary for a few days and Pelley had dinner with Berube to suss him out. Now that the dust has settled, it was decided that Treliving was limited in his autonomy to make significant changes by Shanahan and they believe Berube’s style of play can help them contend for a cup. The problem is they’re not well set up for it because they wasted precious resources and opportunities (draft picks and moving players before NMC’s kicked in) while believing that the core group could get it done. I believe that Treliving knows what needs to be done but I don’t see how they can change the DNA of this team overnight. Sure, their goaltending and defense with a tweak or two are probably good enough but their forward group is a disaster. I think it will take at least two seasons moving players out, buyouts, forcing trades if possible and using their resources to sign the right UFAS to do what they should have done after losing to the Habs four years ago. Build a deeper, tougher, mentally stronger TEAM that doesn’t just rely on four players to score in big games and I think they will give Tre and Berube two seasons to get it done.
 
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Everything but the core has been changed so yeah get rid of the one consistent that results in playoff failure, move 34,16,91,88 and 44, that solves the playoff failure currently plaguing the team…….

The core is being changed Marner is leaving.

Use that money and make the team deeper.
 
I think ownership knows they’ve wasted years hoping the core would come through and that’s why Shanny was let go. The next question was is Treliving also responsible for the mess they’re in, with Marner walking for nothing and no first round picks for the next three drafts. And while MLSE was deciding on his and possibly Berube’s fate, Brad went back to Calgary for a few days and Pelley had dinner with Berube to suss him out. Now that the dust has settled, it was decided that Treliving was limited in his autonomy to make significant changes by Shanahan and they believe Berube’s style of play can help them contend for a cup. The problem is they’re not well set up for it because they wasted precious resources and opportunities (draft picks and moving players before NMC’s kicked in) while believing that the core group could get it done. I believe that Treliving knows what needs to be done but I don’t see how they can change the DNA of this team overnight. Sure, their goaltending and defense with a tweak or two are probably good enough but their forward group is a disaster. I think it will take at least two seasons moving players out, buyouts, forcing trades if possible and using their resources to sign the right UFAS to do what they should have done after losing to the Habs four years ago. Build a deeper, tougher, mentally stronger TEAM that doesn’t just rely on four players to score in big games and I think they will give Tre and Berube two seasons to get it done.

Saying the forward group is a disaster is a stretch but it certainly needs an overhaul.
And with almost 30 million in cap space It's going to get one.
 
Run it back because that’s worked soooooo well the last half DECADE. The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. You want a President’s trophy, I want a cup……

It hasn't worked amazingly, but it's worked better than most teams.

I think most people who are against change for the sake of change just see how bad it can get.

Change to improve the team is great and I hope it happens, just not all change is good.
 
Saying the forward group is a disaster is a stretch but it certainly needs an overhaul.
And with almost 30 million in cap space It's going to get one.

Do they have $30 million to spend?

They have about $25 million with 3-4 spots to fill and they need to re-sign Knies.

So let's call it $20 million with 3-4 spots to fill (depends if Reaves is playing), and two of those spots are expensive, 1RW and 2C.

I don't think they have a lot of cap flexibility just because of the spots that need to be filled.

Also, this is assuming no upgrades to the current roster.
 
Do they have $30 million to spend?

They have about $25 million with 3-4 spots to fill and they need to re-sign Knies.

So let's call it $20 million with 3-4 spots to fill (depends if Reaves is playing), and two of those spots are expensive, 1RW and 2C.

I don't think they have a lot of cap flexibility just because of the spots that need to be filled.

I did say close to 30 million not 30 million exactly.

Point is they have money, the forward group is going to get a significant overhaul
 
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I did say close to 30 million not 30 million exactly.

Point is they have money, the forward group is going to get a significant overhaul

It's probably under $20 million with Knies signed ($25 million before he is signed).

$20 million is not a lot with the holes they need to fill and the bad UFA market, I think prices will be high, they need to get creative with some trades, but they don't have anything to trade.
 
It hasn't worked amazingly, but it's worked better than most teams.

I think most people who are against change for the sake of change just see how bad it can get.

Change to improve the team is great and I hope it happens, just not all change is good.
spoken like a true President Trophy fanboy..........
 
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