Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Stephen]

That team was not a disaster. Not getting the playoff outcome you want does not make a team a disaster, especially when we never even really got to see the true potential of that team in the playoffs due to injuries.

I'm just looking for some consistency. Does having "the fewest goals against at 5v5 among playoff teams" mean you have the best D in the NHL or not? Because some people want to make that claim and then criticize past defenses that did the same thing but even better.

The 2021 playoffs was a disaster, that’s an open and shut case.

The 2021 Leafs played in a 7 team house league without any interaction with the rest of the league playing in a shortened season. So I don’t think anyone is going to concede that point to you on 5 on 5 defense, etc etc.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

We had the fewest goals against at 5v5 among playoff teams in 2021 too. Did we have the best D in the NHL that year?

It was strong. Not going to be revisionist, we all expected them to at least make the Conference Finals. It was let down by injuries, one guy playing higher in the lineup than he should’ve, and inexperienced players costing us two games at least. And an inexperienced coach too.

This years defence has a better top four and it does matter that everyone up there plays on their strong side. Yes Babcock cared but so did Dubas eventually given his trades for Lyubushkin and Schenn back to back. There’s also no rookie who’s getting trial by fired in the middle of a playoff series like Sandin was who could screw up with overly risky plays or rookie mistakes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You see listings all the time that just seem outdated, recycled, maybe even just flat out wrong.

Yes, I don't think anybody is suggesting the listed weights are always perfect. But if we're going to discuss weight in 2022, it's still more accurate to use weights reported during that time period than the listed weight 3 years later.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Because every time your opinion has been proven wrong in our discussions, you've deferred to feelings and opinions that agree with you to continue with the same opinion. What else am I supposed to think? If somebody forms opinions off of feelings, and they will ignore fact if they can find somebody that agrees with them, that's a recipe for a misinformation bubble that can never be pierced. In fact, we've discussed pretty much all of the below points before, and we're back discussing them all again... it honestly feels like you just won't accept the answer that doesn't mesh with your opinion.

Look. I think it's good that you try to look at the present in the brightest light possible. Use that to be positive and optimistic. But when people misrepresent that light to cast shade on a past they choose not to understand, and attack anyone who doesn't join in, that's where it starts to get toxic and obsessive. Don't turn into one of them.

Yeah that is the point. So when we're comparing outcomes, that's some pretty big context that's being left out, no? We have never been unsuccessful in the playoffs facing goaltending this bad. Achieving something that is easier is great, but it doesn't automatically make a team better than one that didn't achieve something that was harder.

Which leads us into this example. Yes, this team did something that it hasn't done before - win the Atlantic division. But that's for two main reasons:

1. When we won our division a few years ago, it wasn't the Atlantic division. (Though yes, it happened, and trying to ignore it because it wasn't the Atlantic is what is disingenuous)
2. Because the point total needed to win the Atlantic this year was at an all-time low.
Since it was created in its current form, points needed to win:
2013/14: 118 points
2014/15: 111 points
2015/16: 104 points
2016/17: 104 points
2017/18: 114 points
2018/19: 129 points
2019/20: 117 points
2021/22: 123 points
2022/23: 136 points
2023/24: 111 points
2024/25: 103 points

That's why we won the division; not because this is the best version of our team. Acknowledging the relative difficulty of something isn't putting an asterisk on it. If anything, this is more about how insanely strong our division has been throughout pretty much our entire competitive phase until now.

Ok, so it sounds like we finally agree that it was goaltending, so there's progress. Now is that a bad thing? No, not necessarily. Good goaltending is very important. I have always said as such. Goalies have more impact on a game than any other player by far (which makes attempts to deny their impact on playoff outcomes even more ridiculous).

What makes people nervous is that goaltending is also inherently very variable, and the level they were performing at in that stretch was wildly unsustainable. The fact that you dismiss Campbell and Samsonov is itself proof of that variability, because both of those goalies delivered strong seasons for us, and even some strong playoff moments. Samsonov, for example, stole us our series-winning game 6 in 2023. But you remember them negatively because the good stretches were followed by a bad stretch.

And the reason for that concern has been on full display for us this playoffs. That strong goaltending that we had throughout the regular season has evaporated in the playoffs so far. We've seen a number of the weak goals that we've seen in the past, and actually worse goaltending overall than we've had before.

But also, there is a fundamental issue with your argument anyway, because a team is not well represented by its best stretch. That's not really what they are. They are all of their stretches combined, good and bad. And in our last discussion about this, I already showed you that how teams finished the season didn't even really have any correlation with winning the cup.

We are different, to some extent, but we are not better. That's not the end of the world. We are still a good team with potential to win, and we have patched many of the holes that were opened up in 2023/24. But being "bigger" doesn't have anything to do with being better. This wasn't our best regular season performance. And it hasn't really been our best playoff performance. We're getting better playoff outcomes because we're facing easier situations. But some people seem to be incapable of understanding any nuance or context. They refuse to believe anything other than good thing happen in playoffs = everything associated with the team is awesome, bad thing happen in playoffs = everything associated with the team sucks. But that's not how hockey works. Hockey is not a single player game. Outcomes are not just about our team. The number of people on this site with such a black and white surface level understanding of hockey is just... baffling. Critical thinking skills have really gone downhill...

This is the best version of our team though.

It's not about the point totals is about the buy in.

The ONLY other time I've seen a team work this hard was the 2002 team who simply ran out of gas because they were gutted by injury.

But somehow a team with a 1st line of Gary Roberts- Alan McCauley and Jonas Hoglund made it to game 6 of the conference final.

This team is starting to remind me of that team except even healthy that team didn't have as much talent.

You can say other teams were better and I'm sure you will because of regular season point totals because that's all that matters to you.

But those teams all got rattled when games got tight, we saw it every year and if you watched the games so so did you although you will deny it.

This team so far doesn't get rattled.

There have been times when they could have, and would have in th past.

Games 2, 3 and 6 VS Ottawa, ESPECIALLY game 6

Game 2 VS Florida especially after Barkov scored.

But so far this team plays differntly they don't panic because their coach doesn't panic because he's seen it all, he's won.

Keefe did panic he doesn't have winning credibility.

I don't know how this playoffs ends.

But I know this team is on the right path.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Lmao.

Show me evidence!
*shows evidence*
No, not like that!

What you provided isn't evidence and if you read my post thoroughly you'd know why.

So basically you can't fathom that a player could fluctuate by 5 pounds within a normal playing weight through the beginning of his career, as he navigates through:
-a global pandemic that shuts down leagues and basically the world
-multiple career-threatening injuries that disrupted his playing, training, and daily life
-his search for his ideal NHL playing weight on two different teams with different playstyles

This is a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense that you have zero evidence for. I think your tinfoil hat is wrapped a little too tightly.

And so, based on absolutely nothing but your desire to avoid admitting you were wrong, you decide that the NHL, Colorado Avalanche, and Colorado's AHL affiliate (not to mention a bunch of other sites and Denver newspapers) were wrong about their own player, and for some reason around the same time, all started using his pre-Draft junior weight. But he was secretly the exact same weight 3 years ago as he is now... Because you say so.

What about the following do you not understand?

"You're treating that 190-pound listing like it’s definitive, but in reality, it’s most likely outdated or recycled information. That exact height and weight — 6'1", 190 — appears across multiple sources dating back to Byram’s junior days, and NHL media guides are notorious for carrying over templated stats unless there’s an official update, like at the combine or during contract signings.

What we do know is that Byram weighed 195 pounds at the NHL Combine, and he’s currently listed at 205 pounds. It’s far more logical to assume his weight increased over time through professional conditioning — even accounting for injuries — than to believe he dropped below his combine weight and hovered there through the most physically demanding stretch of his career, only to bulk up again later.

Unless you're citing an actual weigh-in during the Cup playoffs (and none of your links provide that), the 190-pound claim doesn’t hold much water. At best, it's a placeholder figure, not a verified measurement. So leaning on that to make broader points about his development or health seems pretty weak."


And next time don't truncate and cherry pick what I said. it's lame and cowardly.

It's okay to admit you were wrong dude.

It sure is, you can do so at any time.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Again, I look at more than a single game, sorry if you have no ability to think past that.

I consider the depth to be the bottom 6, not players like Knies/Pacioretty who are riding shotgun with the best players.

Here is everyone's pace so far for 82 games.

Nylander: 134
Marner: 102
Matthews: 82
Pacioretty: 82
Tavares: 52
Knies: 52
Domi: 41
Robertson: 41
Laughton: 21
Lorentz: 11
Jarnkrok: 11
Holmberg: 11
McMann: 11



You are right, the depth is carrying...

Nobody cares about an 82 game pace and/or this laughable spreadsheet you keep using citing useless plus/minus nonsense. What's even dumber is the absence of offensive production from our defense. Who was on the ice for our shorthanded goals against? I see you didn't include those in your beginner level spreadsheet. Why was that?

Besides Nylander, the core 4 has scored 7 goals in 8 games. That's the same total scored by our defenseman.

Oh and LOL at trying to discount contributions from Patches and Knies, they are contributing to offensive production just as much as the guys they're playing with and doing so while playing a much more physical game.

 

[ClarkSittler]

He definitely added a lot of character guys and grit, it’s really been the difference maker these playoffs so far. Tanev, OEL, Laughton, Lorentz, Domi, Carlo, Pacioretty, Benoit.

The Leafs depth is night and day compared to earlier years.

Be careful, they're a few misguided souls around here who will try to tell you, nothing has really changed except the goaltending.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Those two guys are desperately waiting for this team to fail so they can praise their idol for years to come.

Not sure they haven't made the move over to the Penguins sub-forum and called it a day.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I would say Willie is the only one doing the heavy lifting in terms of scoring from the Core 5. Reilly is spotting Willie. While MM and JT are stretching. Our Cap AM is just inside the gym.

I would disagree with that.

Marner has 10 points in 8 games

Matthews has 8 points in 8 games

Even Knies has 5 points in 8 games.

That line has 23 points in 8 games.

Nylander has been playing great there is no question about that.

I'm just not sure why people think he's the only one pulling his weight.

Now I would agree he's been the best player.

But he's not the only player pulling his weight.

 

[leafs in five]

Be careful, they're a few misguided souls around here who will try to tell you, nothing has really changed except the goaltending.

the sentiment that nothing has changed, same old losers, insanity is doing the same thing etc etc, was widespread on here throughout the season, as it was in previous seasons. there are only a few regulars who have been steadfast believers throughout, and the most visible one (homer) was mocked relentlessly for his optimism.

 

[ClarkSittler]

We had the fewest goals against at 5v5 among playoff teams in 2021 too. Did we have the best D in the NHL that year?

Probably not considering the team we played had the fewest goals per game of any team in the first round and continued that pattern all the way to the finals. Not a hard thing to accomplish against at team lacking in offense.

I noticed as per usual you cherry picked one stat and ignored the other two, why was that?

Btw, how many rounds did that defense win anyway?

 

[ClarkSittler]

the sentiment that nothing has changed, same old losers, insanity is doing the same thing etc etc, was widespread on here throughout the season, as it was in previous seasons. there are only a few regulars who have been steadfast believers throughout, and the most visible one (homer) was mocked relentlessly for his optimism.

It’s fair to acknowledge that belief and optimism have their place, but let’s not rewrite history. The skepticism wasn’t born out of baseless negativity, it was a reaction to a pattern of underperformance and repeated early exits, often in similar fashion. Fans questioning the team’s trajectory weren’t being “insane”; they were reacting to a decade of frustrating results which warranted doubt.


Being critical doesn’t make someone less of a fan, that's such a tired trope, it just means they expect more. If anything, the fact that a few remained optimistic while many questioned what our playoff success would look like doesn't mean much during the regular season.

Homer isn't mocked for his optimism, he's given a hard time because he makes idiotic declarations when the Leafs are leading 4-1 like "this game is over, you might as well turn off your TV, team "so and so" sucks so bad, they won't be scoring another goal this game. Then when team so and so ties the game, he changes his prediction to we'll win in OT. Like in our first series against Ottawa he said we would definitely win in 4 or 5, then had to revise that. That's what annoys people.

The idiotic, cocksure, declarative statements.

If he just said "you know I think the Leafs are really good this year, they might make this a short series, maybe even a sweep. Could be wrong but that's what I think." I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.

Saying that, I'm sure everyone here hopes he right about our cup final prediction.

 

[leafs in five]

I know everyone hates Jonas Siegal but he used to always talk about the Avs 2022 d corps, specifically the decision to replace Girard with bigger meaner less skilled dmen, as a kind of model to follow for playoff success.

 

[leafs in five]

It’s fair to acknowledge that belief and optimism have their place, but let’s not rewrite history. The skepticism wasn’t born out of baseless negativity, it was a reaction to a pattern of underperformance and repeated early exits, often in similar fashion. Fans questioning the team’s trajectory weren’t being “insane”; they were reacting to a decade of frustrating results which warranted doubt.


Being critical doesn’t make someone less of a fan, that's such a tired trope, it just means they expect more. If anything, the fact that a few remained optimistic while many questioned what our playoff success would look like doesn't mean much during the regular season.

Homer is mocked for his optimism, he's given a hard time because he makes idiotic declarations when the Leafs are leading 4-1 like "this game is over, you might as well turn off your TV, team "so and so" sucks so bad, they won't be scoring another goal this game. Then when team so and so ties the game, he changes his prediction to we'll win in OT. Like in our first series against Ottawa he said we would definitely win in 4 or 5, then had to revise that. That's what annoys people.

The idiotic, cocksure, declarative statements.

If he just said "you know I think the Leafs are really good this year, they might make this a short series, maybe even a sweep. Could be wrong but that's what I think." I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.

Saying that, I'm sure everyone here hopes he right about our cup final prediction.

agree with all this, I don't think it makes people less of a fan to be critical, and I didn't mean to suggest that those fans were insane, I was just citing that quote that I don't think is actually from Albert Einstein that insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, which you could read frequently on here applied to the Leafs running it back year after year with the same guys taking up half the cap. and I take some issue with the guys who have wanted it all blown up for years now rubbing it in the critics' faces but whatever. cocksure is a good way to describe that particular person's tone lol

 

[ClarkSittler]

agree with all this, I don't think it makes people less of a fan to be critical, and I didn't mean to suggest that those fans were insane, I was just citing that quote that I don't think is actually from Albert Einstein that insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, which you could read frequently on here applied to the Leafs running it back year after year with the same guys taking up half the cap. and I take some issue with the guys who have wanted it all blown up for years now rubbing it in the critics' faces but whatever. cocksure is a good way to describe that particular person's tone lol

I hear you. I've criticized the core 4 in the past, well mostly Mitch and Matty, but I like the way they are playing so far, think Berube's had an influence on them. Auston seems a little off, might be injured or maybe it's all the minutes he's playing against the other teams best lines. He's streaky, so if he ever starts popping offensively we could go all the way.

 

[notbias]

Nobody cares about an 82 game pace and/or this laughable spreadsheet you keep using citing useless plus/minus nonsense. What's even dumber is the absence of offensive production from our defense. Who was on the ice for our shorthanded goals against? I see you didn't include those in your beginner level spreadsheet. Why was that?

I made it an 82 pace so people like you who can't do the math can have an easier time.

Besides Nylander, the core 4 has scored 7 goals in 8 games. That's the same total scored by our defenseman.

The core has 13 goals and the rest of the forwards have 8.

Are assists worthless?

Oh and LOL at trying to discount contributions from Patches and Knies, they are contributing to offensive production just as much as the guys they're playing with and doing so while playing a much more physical game.

You may want to look up what "just as much" means.

 

[DarkKnight]

Considering the cap space that he had to work with, it really is remarkable how well Tre has done remaking this team in such a short time frame.

He was left a mess. It's amazing how much he's added on the cheap.

 

[notbias]

Considering the cap space that he had to work with, it really is remarkable how well Tre has done remaking this team in such a short time frame.

He's used more than 50 million and has had the biggest cap increase of the last two GMs...

He had a lot of flexibility.

 

[Mess]

Under GM Treliving the Leafs are currently 6W-2L in this years playoffs.. MLSE finally getting a return on investment through competent management.

The best mark under former Dubas in any of his 5 playoff years was 5W-7L, with 5 wins being his high water mark. The biggest MLSE regret is that they gave Dubas 5 years to achieve so little through gross incompetence on his part.

Finalists for the Jim Gregory General Manager of the Year Award will be announced following the Second Round of the 2025 Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Wonder if Brad Treliving will be a finalist this year as Exec of the Year for his record setting performance by the Leafs winning their Division and currently under their best playoff season in a Salary Cap Era since 2005.

 

[Nineteen67]

He was left a mess. It's amazing how much he's added on the cheap.

Tre is a stats guru….and all the advanced stats say you have to have size if you want to win playoff series and the size has to be able to play a little bit.
Every other year they had at least 6 holes/unknowns in the lineup, he recognized that, and filled them.

 

[LeafSteel]

Under GM Treliving the Leafs are currently 6W-2L in this years playoffs.. MLSE finally getting a return on investment through competent management.

The best mark under former Dubas in any of his 5 playoff years was 5W-7L, with 5 wins being his high water mark. The biggest MLSE regret is that they gave Dubas 5 years to achieve so little through gross incompetence on his part.

Finalists for the Jim Gregory General Manager of the Year Award will be announced following the Second Round of the 2025 Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Wonder if Brad Treliving will be a finalist this year as Exec of the Year for his record setting performance by the Leafs winning their Division and currently under their best playoff season in a Salary Cap Era since 2005.

Live footage of Dubist’s reading this post…..

 

[ClarkSittler]

I made it an 82 pace so people like you who can't do the math can have an easier time.

Says the guy using plus minus stats to measure performance on a spreadsheet an 8 year old could've created.

What about those shorthanded goals I asked about? I see you conveniently dodged that question. Who was on the ice for those again?

The core has 13 goals and the rest of the forwards have 8.

Yes I know, Nylander has 6 and the rest 7, did you not read my previous post? And you're questioning my math skills? Thanks for proving our depth is contributing though, 8 goals from outside the core 4, not including the ones from our depth defensemen, OEL and Benoit. So what's that 11 from our depth players now?

Outstanding!

Since you love spreadsheets so much, why don't you create one comparing goals scored with the player's current salary. I would love to see that, wouldn't you?

Are assists worthless?

Goals have a greater worth than assists, anyone with an IQ above double digits knows this.

Player A has 50 goals and 0 assists

Player B has 50 assists and 0 goals.

Any NHL GM would rather have player A all day, every day over Player B.

You may want to look up what "just as much" means.

You're the one discounting their success because they are "riding shotgun with the best players", I'm saying they're contributing just as much both physically and on the scoreboard. Who do you think does most of the forechecking on their respective lines?

BTW- Knies has the most goals on his line.

Patches has two goals both scored while playing on the bottom 6.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I would disagree with that.

Marner has 10 points in 8 games

Matthews has 8 points in 8 games

Even Knies has 5 points in 8 games.

That line has 23 points in 8 games.

Nylander has been playing great there is no question about that.

I'm just not sure why people think he's the only one pulling his weight.

Now I would agree he's been the best player.

But he's not the only player pulling his weight.

I agree that "not pulling their weight" is too harsh but I would also note that most of these points came in the first 4 games against Ottawa. There are no more Ottawa's in our near future and so far in round 2, M&M&JT combined have only 3 points between them. Those first few games against Ottawa ensure that the overall numbers will look good for some time but if we keep playing and these guys don't start producing, eventually the overall numbers won't look so good either. That said, I'd suggest not paying too much attention to these stats until the playoffs are done. It's all about the team, we're winning, why not just leave it at that?

In other news, WTF is up with JT? He played so well down the stretch but he's struggling to produce in the playoffs, as usual. If there's one player who I'd be happy to see have a big game soon (tonight would be ideal), it's him.

 

[conFABulator]

Because every time your opinion has been proven wrong in our discussions, you've deferred to feelings and opinions that agree with you to continue with the same opinion. What else am I supposed to think? If somebody forms opinions off of feelings, and they will ignore fact if they can find somebody that agrees with them, that's a recipe for a misinformation bubble that can never be pierced. In fact, we've discussed pretty much all of the below points before, and we're back discussing them all again... it honestly feels like you just won't accept the answer that doesn't mesh with your opinion.

Look. I think it's good that you try to look at the present in the brightest light possible. Use that to be positive and optimistic. But when people misrepresent that light to cast shade on a past they choose not to understand, and attack anyone who doesn't join in, that's where it starts to get toxic and obsessive. Don't turn into one of them.

Yeah that is the point. So when we're comparing outcomes, that's some pretty big context that's being left out, no? We have never been unsuccessful in the playoffs facing goaltending this bad. Achieving something that is easier is great, but it doesn't automatically make a team better than one that didn't achieve something that was harder.

Which leads us into this example. Yes, this team did something that it hasn't done before - win the Atlantic division. But that's for two main reasons:

1. When we won our division a few years ago, it wasn't the Atlantic division. (Though yes, it happened, and trying to ignore it because it wasn't the Atlantic is what is disingenuous)
2. Because the point total needed to win the Atlantic this year was at an all-time low.
Since it was created in its current form, points needed to win:
2013/14: 118 points
2014/15: 111 points
2015/16: 104 points
2016/17: 104 points
2017/18: 114 points
2018/19: 129 points
2019/20: 117 points
2021/22: 123 points
2022/23: 136 points
2023/24: 111 points
2024/25: 103 points

That's why we won the division; not because this is the best version of our team. Acknowledging the relative difficulty of something isn't putting an asterisk on it. If anything, this is more about how insanely strong our division has been throughout pretty much our entire competitive phase until now.

Ok, so it sounds like we finally agree that it was goaltending, so there's progress. Now is that a bad thing? No, not necessarily. Good goaltending is very important. I have always said as such. Goalies have more impact on a game than any other player by far (which makes attempts to deny their impact on playoff outcomes even more ridiculous).

What makes people nervous is that goaltending is also inherently very variable, and the level they were performing at in that stretch was wildly unsustainable. The fact that you dismiss Campbell and Samsonov is itself proof of that variability, because both of those goalies delivered strong seasons for us, and even some strong playoff moments. Samsonov, for example, stole us our series-winning game 6 in 2023. But you remember them negatively because the good stretches were followed by a bad stretch.

And the reason for that concern has been on full display for us this playoffs. That strong goaltending that we had throughout the regular season has evaporated in the playoffs so far. We've seen a number of the weak goals that we've seen in the past, and actually worse goaltending overall than we've had before.

But also, there is a fundamental issue with your argument anyway, because a team is not well represented by its best stretch. That's not really what they are. They are all of their stretches combined, good and bad. And in our last discussion about this, I already showed you that how teams finished the season didn't even really have any correlation with winning the cup.

We are different, to some extent, but we are not better. That's not the end of the world. We are still a good team with potential to win, and we have patched many of the holes that were opened up in 2023/24. But being "bigger" doesn't have anything to do with being better. This wasn't our best regular season performance. And it hasn't really been our best playoff performance. We're getting better playoff outcomes because we're facing easier situations. But some people seem to be incapable of understanding any nuance or context. They refuse to believe anything other than good thing happen in playoffs = everything associated with the team is awesome, bad thing happen in playoffs = everything associated with the team sucks. But that's not how hockey works. Hockey is not a single player game. Outcomes are not just about our team. The number of people on this site with such a black and white surface level understanding of hockey is just... baffling. Critical thinking skills have really gone downhill...

The thing is, you haven't proven me wrong. The bigger thing is that you really seem to need to prove me wrong.

First of all, when I say this team "seems" different to me, or that they are playing with more accountability you have not proven me wrong, because they still "seem" that way to me.

I also don't know that I have ever said that this is the best team of the era, but you seem to want to present a bunch of data that proves they are not.

My opinion and it remains the same is that this team seems different and perhaps more well positioned and built for the playoffs.

You can tell me all the reasons they are both but those are just your opinions also. Telling me they have had more points than the 108 they had this year is not proof that another team was better than this one. That could speak to dozens of factors, league parity being one of them, which I already mentioned. Five teams made the playoffs from our division. Maybe getting points off Montreal and Ottawa (and Detroit) wasn't as easy as it used to be?

However, it is a fact that they have never won an Atlantic division before this year. They had that as a start goal in the past. This team reached there goal.

It is another fact that Ottawa was one of the best teams in the East since January 1 and these Leafs beat them in six R1. Something a Leaf team has done in this era only once.

It is another fact that this Leaf team is up 2-0 in R2. Something no Leaf team has done in 37 years.

So, you can show me stats that support the position this team is no better than previous Leaf teams, but is it possible you are measuring only a subset of indicators with those stats? How do you measure calm? How do you measure the opponent feeling pressure to move the puck quickly? How do you measure counter punching quickly after the other team scores? Are you looking at the blocked shot and hit totals? There have been playoffs in the past where the advanced stats said we should have won a game or series that we didn't, maybe playoffs have a different recipe.

Anyway, when I share my perspective maybe you shouldn't try so hard to change that perspective. Another opinion I have is that you have painted yourself into such pro-Dubas corner that it seems to have taken away from your ability to enjoy a good run here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The thing is, you haven't proven me wrong. The bigger thing is that you really seem to need to prove me wrong.

First of all, when I say this team "seems" different to me, or that they are playing with more accountability you have not proven me wrong, because they still "seem" that way to me.

I also don't know that I have ever said that this is the best team of the era, but you seem to want to present a bunch of data that proves they are not.

My opinion and it remains the same is that this team seems different and perhaps more well positioned and built for the playoffs.

You can tell me all the reasons they are both but those are just your opinions also. Telling me they have had more points than the 108 they had this year is not proof that another team was better than this one. That could speak to dozens of factors, league parity being one of them, which I already mentioned. Five teams made the playoffs from our division. Maybe getting points off Montreal and Ottawa (and Detroit) wasn't as easy as it used to be?

However, it is a fact that they have never won an Atlantic division before this year. They had that as a start goal in the past. This team reached there goal.

It is another fact that Ottawa was one of the best teams in the East since January 1 and these Leafs beat them in six R1. Something a Leaf team has done in this era only once.

It is another fact that this Leaf team is up 2-0 in R2. Something no Leaf team has done in 37 years.

So, you can show me stats that support the position this team is no better than previous Leaf teams, but is it possible you are measuring only a subset of indicators with those stats? How do you measure calm? How do you measure the opponent feeling pressure to move the puck quickly? How do you measure counter punching quickly after the other team scores? Are you looking at the blocked shot and hit totals? There have been playoffs in the past where the advanced stats said we should have won a game or series that we didn't, maybe playoffs have a different recipe.

Anyway, when I share my perspective maybe you shouldn't try so hard to change that perspective. Another opinion I have is that you have painted yourself into such oro-Dubas corner that it seems to have taken away from your ability to enjoy a good run here.

I don't know who you're debating with but I can guess, great post in any case! This "they have had more points than the 108" is an absurd argument, winning the division is a good rebuttal and I would add that the regular season isn't the playoffs. I said all year that we'll find out in the playoffs what this team is and so far, the team looks pretty good indeed.

There is something different about this team, I can feel it too. They're competing always, there hasn't been one period out of the 32 where I felt like they're not playing hard and I haven't seen this team play even 5 playoff games like that before with this core. I don't think anyone could nail it down to one reason for it, it's a combination of a bunch of different things but if I had to pick one, I suppose it would be our GM. He's the guy who made the roster changes and the guys he brought in are having a MASSIVE impact. GLG!!